Beefcake said:So many of the posts in this thread seem way too elitist, acting like free trial players are the scum of the earth to be wiped from underneath our feet as we enter the palace of Pantheon.
Other than spammers and trolls, most free trial players are just like everyone else. They need to be treated positively in order to get them to subscribe. More subscriptions is good for everyone.
VR has decided to offer a free trial. It's time to accept that they know their marketing plan better than any of us. If VR thought it would be better to make everyone pay up front, they would.
And I hope that when free trials members come into the game, you will all treat them with the respect they deserve and how you would like to be treated.
There is no reason to be negative to potential future subscribers. VR, with the help of the community, will take care of the abusers.
This is not elitism this is about protecting our game from the cockroach infestation that is ..Gold sellers and their continuous spam ..I report them all Beefcake because they are tremendously annoying. I don't want spam about gold in General chat, in my private tells nor in my ingame mail. The first thing these folks do is go for the free levels, free accounts. This has been going on for years ..not sure why you are unaware? There should be restrictions on the trial accounts..that is the FIRST place you'll find these guys. Any newbie that needs my help will get my help, long as I know they are interested in the game, and not telling me the game is their "job" (yep had that kind of response too..) Not forgetting also that these same gold sellers also avail themselves of stolen credit cards which get charged back to the game company. ...there are many reasons to be vigilant. Perhaps reread the thread to get a better gist of what actually goes on with these guys. I don't have a problem with the free levels, but I WILL report anyone that is on those free levels and spamming me with power level or gold/plat sales. Point blank.
In regards to trial accounts in general
-10 Day trials. Humans always want what they cant have. Give them an itch and they will pay to get it scratched. After that your either not going to play or just cause trouble. If they need to try it again they can make a new account.
- 2 Characters max per trial. 1 slot for a keeper, the other to play round with is generally how that works. Make them have to delete that second character so it stings a touch.
In regards to trial account access
-Give them New Players the ability to see general but not talk or only talk once every minute so they can find a group and gold spammers can be smited without being annoying. Give the trials unlimited access to a newbie chat so they can group up and get help from veterans.
-Remove their abillity to add friends, trade, or whisper but allow paid accounts to add them as a friend.
-Allow them to whisper/trade said friends accounts
-Utilize captcha codes at certain intervals or upon doing certain actions?
Stop it before it gains ground. Take a hardline stance to dissuade spammers from even wanting to try.
Thanakos said:How about allowing paying customers to invite people for free trial? Set a monthly limit. You can start with people who have pledged when the game is released..
Exactly I already have plans to do this..use my extra digital download for a friend to introduce her to gaming. As was suggested to me she can try the free ten levels (or whatever it will be come launch) and then if she likes it (I plan to help her out show her the ropes as she is used to Facebook games) I'll give her the keycode for the second download. I plan on spending time with her and if it works out get her in a guild that suits her playstyle. :) I KNOW she's not a gold seller or anything like that. :)
Cana
Free trials are fine for friends. But, I really hope there will be MANY more people trying the game at launch or shortly thereafter other than just friends of current subs.
Otherwise, we will have some problems.
I am hoping that a lot of people new to MMOs will try it out. New blood is key to future success and maybe we can train them right.
Beefcake said:Free trials are fine for friends. But, I really hope there will be MANY more people trying the game at launch or shortly thereafter other than just friends of current subs.
Otherwise, we will have some problems.
I am hoping that a lot of people new to MMOs will try it out. New blood is key to future success and maybe we can train them right.
And he or she tells two friends and they tell two friends. Word of mouth. :) Yes new gamers are important. Oh and here's another thing, the friend I am talking about heads a circle of girlfriends, we might just be able to coax them all in..hehehe One at a time for now. :)
Beefcake said:Free trials are fine for friends. But, I really hope there will be MANY more people trying the game at launch or shortly thereafter other than just friends of current subs.
Otherwise, we will have some problems.
I am hoping that a lot of people new to MMOs will try it out. New blood is key to future success and maybe we can train them right.
I may be naive in saying it, but I really think this game is set to come out at just the right time to really capitalize on the stale MMO market.
Camelot Unchained is likely to pull the more PvP minded crowd, as DAoC did in the past, while this should very much intrigue pretty much anyone else. Especially launching with a 10 level free trial.
CanadinaXegony said:Beefcake said:So many of the posts in this thread seem way too elitist, acting like free trial players are the scum of the earth to be wiped from underneath our feet as we enter the palace of Pantheon.
Other than spammers and trolls, most free trial players are just like everyone else. They need to be treated positively in order to get them to subscribe. More subscriptions is good for everyone.
VR has decided to offer a free trial. It's time to accept that they know their marketing plan better than any of us. If VR thought it would be better to make everyone pay up front, they would.
And I hope that when free trials members come into the game, you will all treat them with the respect they deserve and how you would like to be treated.
There is no reason to be negative to potential future subscribers. VR, with the help of the community, will take care of the abusers.
This is not elitism this is about protecting our game from the cockroach infestation that is ..Gold sellers and their continuous spam ..I report them all Beefcake because they are tremendously annoying. I don't want spam about gold in General chat, in my private tells nor in my ingame mail. The first thing these folks do is go for the free levels, free accounts. This has been going on for years ..not sure why you are unaware? There should be restrictions on the trial accounts..that is the FIRST place you'll find these guys. Any newbie that needs my help will get my help, long as I know they are interested in the game, and not telling me the game is their "job" (yep had that kind of response too..) Not forgetting also that these same gold sellers also avail themselves of stolen credit cards which get charged back to the game company. ...there are many reasons to be vigilant. Perhaps reread the thread to get a better gist of what actually goes on with these guys. I don't have a problem with the free levels, but I WILL report anyone that is on those free levels and spamming me with power level or gold/plat sales. Point blank.
Keeping gold sellers out is a full time job, trial account does make it easier for the gold sellers. So I do hope they have a proactive plan over seeing what needs to be done after launch. I do agree as well that the trail accounts could be a great thing to get new gamers. BD added a great tool for the players. A filter window. Letting you add words to file that would block peoples chat. So if you added the word "gold" to the filter any broadcast chat that included the word gold would be blocked. This tool just turned off the gold sellers voices and they had no clue who was not listening. My question to the devs is this... Do you have a proactive plan to deal with gold seller spam? Because just removing their account is never enough, they just find ways to get back in. Players need simple ways to turn them off and report them.
New info about the Free Trial.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5573/free-trial-offer/view/post_id/100167
Kilsin said:It will be a regular game client download and once you start the game and log in, you active that trial to start, which will not stop until it reaches the limit we set, once that happens you will have to decide if you like the game or not because to continue playing you will need to purchase the game (and a subscription once the game purchase time runs out - usually you get a free 30 days) to continue playing. The trial will be level capped and timed but with very few restrictions so people can get a good understanding of the game and see if they like it or not.
So, after the trial, people will still need to PURCHASE the game, not just a sub.
Beefcake said:New info about the Free Trial.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5573/free-trial-offer/view/post_id/100167
Kilsin said:It will be a regular game client download and once you start the game and log in, you active that trial to start, which will not stop until it reaches the limit we set, once that happens you will have to decide if you like the game or not because to continue playing you will need to purchase the game (and a subscription once the game purchase time runs out - usually you get a free 30 days) to continue playing. The trial will be level capped and timed but with very few restrictions so people can get a good understanding of the game and see if they like it or not.
So, after the trial, people will still need to PURCHASE the game, not just a sub.
That's all well and good, but the "with very few restrictions" bit is concerning. I hope they mean with game-play related activities, and still plan on limiting chat / mail / bazaar postings / whatever the misusers can do to get their advertisements out.
Free trials should definitely not have very few restrictions. In fact, it's imperative that they have many restrictions. Not so much as far as getting the experience of the world and gameplay, but anything else that can be exploited should be limited. A real restriction to me is an instance or trial island completely separate from the proper world. That does not make for a real trial of the game, but to allow trial players into the open world means restrictions to keep things above board.
That means free trial should get their starting city and surrounding starting area, no more. That way free accounts don't become mules or a tool to grief others in dungeons, esp in higher lvl areas.
No invites or tells to non-trial players (only reply or /accept).
No trading or trade chat, no ooc, no shouts. Even say should be reduced to a few times a minute max, with spam detection and triggered mutes. A /trial chat channel is all trial players should need along with /reply and the occasional /say.
None of those things are imperative for getting a feel for the game. All of those things will absolutely be abused if they aren't restricted.
Trial players names should also be released after 30 days if the account doesn't activate a subscription.
Also:
Riahuf22 said: One thing I think that might stop gold farmers is that they can be obviously on the same servers as the people who pay but are on a different shard but can't enter others shards but people who pay can enter there's so of they have a friend that is actually doing a trial account they can be there and help them out and everything but can't visit theirs until they sub. That way the gold farmers can't spam our general chat and home cities and everything and annoy the heck out of us
Around 10 or 12 days ago I joind a free beta to see if it was a game I'd enjoy while waiting on Pantheon. The first thing I notice when I log in is not the game world, it is my chat window overflowing with messages from gold sellers, messages filled with dancing, pink emojis. And I was insta annoyed.
I think it is not only about protecting the paying costomers from gold sellers, it is definitely also about protecting people that are curious about Pantheon and want to see if it is a game for them. Putting trial accounts in a different shard where gold sellers are able to annoye possible new players may alienate them.
I belive there must be a better way :)
-sorte
And pretty please never allow emojis. Not dancing and never pink...
Free trials are a marketing concept not a game feature. We need more players more than we need many other things. A 100% perfect game that fails is BAD. A 80% perfect game (that makes it a whole lot better than the other MMOs out there today) that succeeds is GOOD. My way or the highway is generally a disasterous marketing plan. Success > purity as long as most of the core tenets are maintained.
Free trials add two undesirable things to the community and we pretty much all know it. VR assuredly does. One is gold spammers. We won't be as visible a target for them as WoW or certain other games but I would hate to rely solely on being too obscure and unsuccessful for them to notice. In fact I would much prefer the opposite. One means of limiting the adverse affect is a good spam filter - and some MMOs have really good filters. Another means is limiting access to communication - as is common in games that have free trials. This is a delicate balance - too limited and people genuinely trying out the game will have trouble making any friends - which limits retention. Official VR people monitoring the channels and immediately booting any gold spammers isn't a long-term fix but they probably plan to be very active that way for at least the first few months and maybe the gold spammers will...forget about us. Well one can hope.
One area where free trial players can be given unlimited access to communication is within guilds. Guild leaders and officers can boot spammers' worthless arses instantly with no need for VR involvement and if a guild leader invites XRTVDGGXOOKKY into a guild, well I feel little sympathy for him or her.
The other thing free trials add is players that are just playing around. don't take anything seriously, don't care about anyone else. troll any channel they have access to and never plan on paying a thing. Often very ....young ...players. In some ways this is worse than the gold spammers. Any MMO with free-to-play has a lot of these people and they enjoy annoying the more serious players more than anything else. Limited ability to talk in general channels or send whispers is essential for limiting the harm they can do - obviously a spam filter won't help with them. Note that many free-to-play players are at least as mature and serious as the subscribers and often spend more money - this is not a general attack on this type of player - but the immature, aggressive and downright nasty ones are more visible and do a lot of harm to communities.
Sorte said:Riahuf22 said: One thing I think that might stop gold farmers is that they can be obviously on the same servers as the people who pay but are on a different shard but can't enter others shards but people who pay can enter there's so of they have a friend that is actually doing a trial account they can be there and help them out and everything but can't visit theirs until they sub. That way the gold farmers can't spam our general chat and home cities and everything and annoy the heck out of us
Around 10 or 12 days ago I joind a free beta to see if it was a game I'd enjoy while waiting on Pantheon. The first thing I notice when I log in is not the game world, it is my chat window overflowing with messages from gold sellers, messages filled with dancing, pink emojis. And I was insta annoyed.
I think it is not only about protecting the paying costomers from gold sellers, it is definitely also about protecting people that are curious about Pantheon and want to see if it is a game for them. Putting trial accounts in a different shard where gold sellers are able to annoye possible new players may alienate them.
I belive there must be a better way :)
-sorte
And pretty please never allow emojis. Not dancing and never pink...
Was that Revelation Online?.. Same thing was happening there too on the recent open beta launch. Uninstalled the first day. Granted, not just because of all the spam, but it definitely didn't help me want to stay.
Lokispawn said:Was that Revelation Online?.. Same thing was happening there too on the recent open beta launch. Uninstalled the first day. Granted, not just because of all the spam, but it definitely didn't help me want to stay.
It was and I have not been back since :)
-sorte.
Sorte said: ... The first thing I notice when I log in is not the game world, it is my chat window overflowing with messages from gold sellers, messages filled with dancing, pink emojis. And I was insta annoyed.
I think it is not only about protecting the paying costomers from gold sellers, it is definitely also about protecting people that are curious about Pantheon and want to see if it is a game for them. Putting trial accounts in a different shard where gold sellers are able to annoye possible new players may alienate them.
I belive there must be a better way :)
-sorte
Right, so as mentioned several times in this thread, that's the point in having a completely separate server for trial accounts. So you can stop all of that, and the new players don't have to put up with it.
Put simply, the " different shard " is not " where gold sellers are able to annoy possible new players may alienate them. " but rather " where gold sellers are NOT able to annoy possible new players, and may NOT alienate them. "
A further bonus is it doesn't impact the subscription production servers at all.
X
Separate servers is a good solution, if necessary. It doesn't have many drawbacks from a testing perspective other than the fact that you won't be able to see the normal population going about their business. This could result in the cities and surrounding areas appearing a bit desolate. That would be bad optics for potential players, because no one wants to play a dead game. Even if there's 20 bustling servers packed to the rafters, the trial server will eventually seem dead in comparison.
There is also the allure of seeing high level players and their fancy gear. It gives something for people to strive for, and that would be entirely eliminated on trial servers.
I believe early on when the game is most popular, trial servers might actually prove necessary and some of the aforementioned drawbacks will not exist. As the population starts to settle in and the number of active trials is reduced, the trial server could probably be merged to give players a better sense of how busy the game is and how a normal server and it's population actually operates.
I acknowledge the benefits to a separate server for trial accounts - didn't EQ2 have a separate server for free-to-play when they first went that route? Briefly.
I am not sure the advantages outwiegh the disadvantages in Pantheon. Pantheon will be designed as a game focusing on groups, guilds and socialization. It will be marketed as a game focusing on such. Don't you want potential players on the same server as the people they are being encouraged to group and join guilds with? Especially since guild chat is one of the few chat channels where you can give them unrestricted access without fear of unending goldspam. If I join a guild and make a few friends my first week am I more or less likely to stay?
Also, don't overlook the fact that there will hoepfully be more than one "live" server. If I make friends with other trial players on a trial server those friendships go bye-bye if we don't all go to the same live server and maybe due to differing rulesets or other friends that can't happen.
Perhaps most importantly, a lot of people testing a game may be there because they want to play with friends that already have the game - at least as long as the game isn't TOO bad. If my friends are all on a live server and I am on test they can't show me around or even talk to me.
Don't agree with separate servers...newbies are important to the extension of the life of the game. Put the normal chat restrictions ..can't join guild til level X ..can't send tells or ingame mails unless on friends list. Some limits on possessing higher level items until they buy the game or get free download from one of us pledger types. I will be introducing a couple of new people to Pantheon, so that means if I am mentoring I need them with me on the server where I am or where my guild is. So if free trial goes to level 10...can't join guild til level 11 and has applied for subscription.
Cana
>can't join guild til level X<
Maybe there is an excellent reason for this - can someone explain it? I get not being allowed to form a guild until you have a regular account but don't we want trial players in guilds talking to people and making friends. There isn't all that much room for abuse since the guild leaders can boot them.
The only reason that comes to mind is that we may want to cripple trial accounts to encourage people to put their hands in their pockets and pay for the game. Maybe we view things differently because we have different types of trial accounts in mind. I have been assuming something like a 7 day trial with a cap on the level you can reach. Had I assumed an unlimited time limit (still with a level cap) I would have agreed on guild membership - you shouldn't give too many features away for free without a strict time limit.
dorotea said:>can't join guild til level X<
Maybe there is an excellent reason for this - can someone explain it? I get not being allowed to form a guild until you have a regular account but don't we want trial players in guilds talking to people and making friends. There isn't all that much room for abuse since the guild leaders can boot them.
The only reason that comes to mind is that we may want to cripple trial accounts to encourage people to put their hands in their pockets and pay for the game. Maybe we view things differently because we have different types of trial accounts in mind. I have been assuming something like a 7 day trial with a cap on the level you can reach. Had I assumed an unlimited time limit (still with a level cap) I would have agreed on guild membership - you shouldn't give too many features away for free without a strict time limit.
I have seen complete guilds of gold farmer, powerlevel and botters..in other games such as Lineage II, Rift and even Wow. So if we can head that off by small limitations on the free trial accounts that would hopefully slow it down some. And usually getting to level 7 or 10 doesn't take all that long..so might be a waiting period of a very few days, they can subscribe and be guilded. Meantime we can help them as prospective guildies til they hit that point.
I think that this issue is not as hot as it may seem .
The free trials have a dynamics which often solves the problem by itself . Indeed the number of free trials will be quasi exponentially decreasing with time . On the Day 1 it may very well be 10 000/day . On the Day 10 it will be 800/day and on Day 100 perhaps only 50/day .
So while early on the gold sellers and spammers can't be detected in the mass, it only lasts a few weeks . Later on the number of free trials is so low that gold spammers and harassers stand out like a sore thumb and can be pretty much eliminated fast without needing to take complex and code consuming measures designed on the basis of Day 1 numbers .
In my opinion the only important thing is to allow the free trials to be in the full game environment eventually with some minor restrictions (or not) and not parked away in some ghetto . And it is especially important in the first few weeks when there will be masses of them and VR will want that a good percentage finally decides to stay in the game and to take a subscription . This is btw what is basically said in the FAQ .
