preface: I did searches for free account and trial account, and didn't come across anyone discussing the restrictions they would or should have. Please delete if duplicate baddy post. (sorry)
Sooooo..
No general / public channel access.
No private messages or "tells" unless they friend you. (i get tell spam for $ites in other games)
No trading with players.
No bank access.
What else do we need to stop the gold farmer spam / mules / misuse?
Trial accounts from what has been discussed would go to level ten (unless that idea has changed in the meantime) After you have to subscribe. I'm still not sure if the old way of things..buy the game, get 30 free days, first sub payment starts a month later, is still going to be a thing here. Will both be active? Or the 30 day free trial won't be happening any more? Would be good to know or have that cleared up. :)
Make sure early levels can't join a guild til they subscribe? Make sure they can't contact you through ingame mail either (another gold seller habit). Level restricted chat channels to level 10 would help with any spam that might come from those accounts. Also the ability to /report such accounts if someone detects they are gold sellers. The low levels (level 2 or 3) in Rift would go to the main city closest to the newbie area, stand outside the mailbox in the city, and spam everyone with mail as people came and went. I tested this by standing close by and sure enough got a gold seller ingame spam mail, from the person I was observing. lol
Nothing breaks immersion quite like the eager gold spammers lol.
I'm thinking no public chat channels, player trading, or bank access. This has to be paired with some footwork on the database side though. Whatever table holds the 'Player Flags' should be swept for certain criteria regularly. Trial Account-True, Reported as Spam twice or more-True, then temporarily ban account until a CS rep can investigate. I'm no DB admin but you get the picture hopefully.
Also like the idea of putting them on a separate trial cloud server until they upgrade, at which point they can select their starting shard.
malist said:Nothing breaks immersion quite like the eager gold spammers lol.
I'm thinking no public chat channels, player trading, or bank access. This has to be paired with some footwork on the database side though. Whatever table holds the 'Player Flags' should be swept for certain criteria regularly. Trial Account-True, Reported as Spam twice or more-True, then temporarily ban account until a CS rep can investigate. I'm no DB admin but you get the picture hopefully.
Also like the idea of putting them on a separate trial cloud server until they upgrade, at which point they can select their starting shard.
Yeah. The mess that many games have had at launch with gold spammers is terrible. I have actually taken breaks from games specifically because of this till it got under control. Heres to hoping that something is done here immediately to alleviate this massive headache.
My thoughts on trial accounts
1) no access to main channels, mail, tells, guilding, bank or trades until level 11 (sub after trial), leaving them proximity chat and emotes.
2) seperate global chat channel for trial characters. We can opt to /join trial if we wish to help actual trials learn the ropes.
3) with the block on trades/banking/mail there's no need to limit a trial character to x amount of coin or anything.
4) don't segregate trials to a seperate server, let them on the live servers to see the community they will join (we can't assume every trial will be a filthy gold spammer)
5) this applies to trial accounts specifically, if you're rolling an alt on your sub account this doesn't factor in.
Go try SW:TOR today. Right now. For free. That's what you need, with one adjustment; Have an option to ignore all /duel requests. What SW:TOR has plus that? Pantheon would be fine.
They have a pretty good system there. It's an incredible pain in the ass if you don't subscribe, but that's the whole point. You can still play the game just fine, do quests, kill stuff, move around, explore, see the UI, get an idea about the plot line, lore, and game in general. But it's almost impossible to be annoyed by bots/spam/tells/etc.
Personally, I hope the free trial environment for Pantheon is a completely separate logical entity (at layer 3-7) from the subscription servers, to the point where you don't even get a choice of server until you subscribe.
We have actually answered this question in our FAQ: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q66
Yes, a new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on the free character may have to be made in order to avoid it being used by farmers, griefers, etc.
vjek said:.Personally, I hope the free trial environment for Pantheon is a completely separate logical entity (at layer 3-7) from the subscription servers, to the point where you don't even get a choice of server until you subscribe.
I think the point of a trial account is to get them INTO the game, not separate from the game. If all you see on a trial account is other trial players, I would think that would be the worst first impression possible.
vjek said:Personally, I hope the free trial environment for Pantheon is a completely separate logical entity (at layer 3-7) from the subscription servers, to the point where you don't even get a choice of server until you subscribe.
Best case scenario right here.
Kilsin said:We have actually answered this question in our FAQ: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q66
Will there be a trial of the game for me to play before I buy it?
Yes, a new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on the free character may have to be made in order to avoid it being used by farmers, griefers, etc.
Hey Kils.. I had read the FAQ and it's actually what prompted my post. I wanted to delve into the details of the impediments / restrictions.
I think perhaps it was Aion launch that was made super unenjoyable from free accounts without restrictions other than a level cap. Constant spam was bad.
But I suppose you can't completely neuter chatting and socializing in a predominantly social game either. Who knows, maybe gold sellers wont bother targeting Pantheon? (Wishful thinking?) :)
Lokispawn said:Kilsin said:We have actually answered this question in our FAQ: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q66
Will there be a trial of the game for me to play before I buy it?
Yes, a new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on the free character may have to be made in order to avoid it being used by farmers, griefers, etc.
Hey Kils.. I had read the FAQ and it's actually what prompted my post. I wanted to delve into the details of the impediments / restrictions.
I think perhaps it was Aion launch that was made super unenjoyable from free accounts without restrictions other than a level cap. Constant spam was bad.
But I suppose you can't completely neuter chatting and socializing in a predominantly social game either. Who knows, maybe gold sellers wont bother targeting Pantheon? (Wishful thinking?) :)
I understand man, we haven't given the restrictions yet, it is a pretty long way off until the release of our game, so right now we are focussed on getting testing ready, but when a question like this is asked, I have to link our official stance or reply even if it is via the FAQ so other people who read these forums from outside the community understand what our take on it is and we make it pretty clear that there will be only very minor restriction to help new players try our game and get a good taste of what it is like before they decide to purchase or not, we will have CS, GMs, VR Staff, Guides etc to handle any issues.
Lokispawn said:I think perhaps it was Aion launch that was made super unenjoyable from free accounts without restrictions other than a level cap. Constant spam was bad.
But I suppose you can't completely neuter chatting and socializing in a predominantly social game either. Who knows, maybe gold sellers wont bother targeting Pantheon? (Wishful thinking?) :)
Very wishful thinking... in fact, that's impossible lol. There are a few very simple things that come to mind that they can do:
1. Filter out web addresses in chat
2. Ability to quickly mute a particular character just so that you can't see it. Ignorance is bliss.
3. Easy-to-use report tool, so that if a particular character gets reported enough times, VR gets notified. It's not that hard for them to review chat and see that they are gold spamming. That account would then get a permanent IP ban to root out the problem from its source.
4. Also, if needed, just put a limit to the frequency a particular character can chat, send tells/mail. (i.e. every 30 seconds)
I think this would probably be the best place to start. Ramp it up only if it's still an issue.
Fully support trial accounts not being able to talk in global/zonewide chat channels. After seeing how bad the spam was in FFXIV I will never again support full game trials on the actual servers. Let them trial on a trial server is my vote. That way we don't have to face the spam and if they do what to spam they will have to spend the money to do so
Enitzu said:Fully support trial accounts not being able to talk in global/zonewide chat channels. After seeing how bad the spam was in FFXIV I will never again support full game trials on the actual servers. Let them trial on a trial server is my vote. That way we don't have to face the spam and if they do what to spam they will have to spend the money to do so
While a trial server may the most effective, I think that's actually the worst solution. The fact that genuine, well-intentioned new players would have no contact with higher level players to inspire them and help them, meanwhile being constantly surrounded by gold spammers. That sounds like a miserable introduction to the game. They would not rope in many new players that way, guaranteed. Segregating the playerbase is simply a bad idea. Even not being able to use zonewide chat to find groups would kinda defeat the purpose imo. Some people may not be familiar with the dynamics of group-oriented games and would not be able to fully appreciate it. But I guess it depends on how long the trial is. If it's only up to level 5 and most of the content is soloable at those levels, it may not be a huge issue. But at the same time, it may not even be effective. The gold spammers will just use tells.
It's tough, but right now I'm thinking just muting/reporting and perma IP bans is the way to go.
If you permit -anything- to the trial environment, it will be abused. SW:TOR went through all this, and that's what they had to do. There was no choice. Every single thing was abused by gold spammers until removed.
They gave them /say, they had to throttle say to increasing backoffs. 10, 30, 45 seconds between each say, and longer if you were trying to speak when you couldn't.
Tells were absolutely forbidden. Speaking in group, absolutely forbidden. You could group, but couldn't speak in group. No guild invites permitted. You could send one tell per minute to someone on your friend list. Honestly? It's easier today to use Discord with your friends and ignore the in-game communication mechanisms, they're so restricted. At that point, why even have any of that? Just permit NPC interaction only, block all channels and hide all player names not on your friends list.
I totally understand your optimism, Bazgrim, but there is no company with the Customer Service staff capable of responding to this threat. None. Muting/Reporting is not a solution. It's a bandaid on an arterial laceration. You can't ban IP's permanently because they could be (and typically are, if the gold spammers are smart) used by legit customers either concurrently, or in the future.
It really is worth trying SW:TOR as a free trial account. The download is small, and you get to see what the modern reality is in 2017 of having to deal with constant gold spammers.
Bazgrim said:Very wishful thinking... in fact, that's impossible lol. There are a few very simple things that come to mind that they can do:
1. Filter out web addresses in chat
2. Ability to quickly mute a particular character just so that you can't see it. Ignorance is bliss.
3. Easy-to-use report tool, so that if a particular character gets reported enough times, VR gets notified. It's not that hard for them to review chat and see that they are gold spamming. That account would then get a permanent IP ban to root out the problem from its source.
4. Also, if needed, just put a limit to the frequency a particular character can chat, send tells/mail. (i.e. every 30 seconds)
I think this would probably be the best place to start. Ramp it up only if it's still an issue.
Expanding on your 2nd suggestion-->
-Double (triple?) clicking someone's name in chat adds them to ignore with a bright colored notification of doing so, with an easy to use system for un-ignoring the accidentally added. (option to turn this on or off for crazy clickhappy folk?)
-Ignoring someone ignores all actions (/duel, /invite, chat, mails)
I concur that it's all a great starting point, Bazgrim.
Lokispawn said:Bazgrim said:Very wishful thinking... in fact, that's impossible lol. There are a few very simple things that come to mind that they can do:
1. Filter out web addresses in chat
2. Ability to quickly mute a particular character just so that you can't see it. Ignorance is bliss.
3. Easy-to-use report tool, so that if a particular character gets reported enough times, VR gets notified. It's not that hard for them to review chat and see that they are gold spamming. That account would then get a permanent IP ban to root out the problem from its source.
4. Also, if needed, just put a limit to the frequency a particular character can chat, send tells/mail. (i.e. every 30 seconds)
I think this would probably be the best place to start. Ramp it up only if it's still an issue.
Expanding on your 2nd suggestion-->
-Double (triple?) clicking someone's name in chat adds them to ignore with a bright colored notification of doing so, with an easy to use system for un-ignoring the accidentally added. (option to turn this on or off for crazy clickhappy folk?)
-Ignoring someone ignores all actions (/duel, /invite, chat, mails)
I concur that it's all a great starting point, Bazgrim.
Ah yes, I definitely agree that muting/ignoring someone should automatically block any interactions they try to initiate.
Also, I now realize I probably should have used the phrase "out of sight, out of mind." Because ignorance is not always bliss lol
Lokispawn said:Bazgrim said:Very wishful thinking... in fact, that's impossible lol. There are a few very simple things that come to mind that they can do:
1. Filter out web addresses in chat
2. Ability to quickly mute a particular character just so that you can't see it. Ignorance is bliss.
3. Easy-to-use report tool, so that if a particular character gets reported enough times, VR gets notified. It's not that hard for them to review chat and see that they are gold spamming. That account would then get a permanent IP ban to root out the problem from its source.
4. Also, if needed, just put a limit to the frequency a particular character can chat, send tells/mail. (i.e. every 30 seconds)
I think this would probably be the best place to start. Ramp it up only if it's still an issue.
Expanding on your 2nd suggestion-->
-Double (triple?) clicking someone's name in chat adds them to ignore with a bright colored notification of doing so, with an easy to use system for un-ignoring the accidentally added. (option to turn this on or off for crazy clickhappy folk?)
-Ignoring someone ignores all actions (/duel, /invite, chat, mails)
I concur that it's all a great starting point, Bazgrim.
Eh, I really don't think trials should have any chat access at all aside from tells. And only if someone adds them as a friend (they can't initiate that either). Just make it completely obvious when you start the trial and on the download page what the restrictions are and why they are in place. If you filter web addresses, they will just be more creative in typing them. If they have even limited/time restricted chat, they will still abuse it to the fullest extent possible.
Iksar said:If you filter web addresses, they will just be more creative in typing them. If they have even limited/time restricted chat, they will still abuse it to the fullest extent possible.
That doesn't mean that you still shouldn't filter out web addresses though. There isn't really a good reason to allow web addresses in chat anyway. The logic of "well they're always gonna find a way around it anyway, so we shouldn't even bother" is very flawed.
You can filter web addresses but it stops nothing. Only thing that will change is that they will use (dot) instead of .
I agree that a trial server really wouldn't work well. It alienates people and that is never good. But the amount of gold spam in most games that offer the trials is incredibly bad. I played FFXIV for like 6 months and every day chat was a constant spam of gold sellers. Then they started sending random mass tells. I had a full ignore list in under a week.
Enitzu said:You can filter web addresses but it stops nothing. Only thing that will change is that they will use (dot) instead of .
I agree that a trial server really wouldn't work well. It alienates people and that is never good. But the amount of gold spam in most games that offer the trials is incredibly bad. I played FFXIV for like 6 months and every day chat was a constant spam of gold sellers. Then they started sending random mass tells. I had a full ignore list in under a week.
There's definitely not an easy answer. It's worth the discussion.
I would suggest that trial accounts have some sort of significant limitation on communication, whatever that may be. My point isn't what level of limitation the devs decide on.
My suggestion is that if a paying sub vouches for a trial account, that would unlock fully functional chat on that trial account. Accountability MUST be SEVERE though otherwise it wont work. For example, if a trial account is reported after having a paid sub vouch for them, that trial account is subject to being banned, and the paying sub shall face substantial penalties, maybe being muted for 24-72 hours at first, removing their ability to vouch for future trail accounts, ultimitely leading to being banned as well after numerous offenses.
The goal is to allow legitimate trial players to access full communication, and prevent bots from gaining that access. Either the spammers sub for a month anyway, or they risk a different paid account, either way it puts their money where their mouth is.
Quintra said:My suggestion is that if a paying sub vouches for a trial account, that would unlock fully functional chat on that trial account. Accountability MUST be SEVERE though otherwise it wont work. For example, if a trial account is reported after having a paid sub vouch for them, that trial account is subject to being banned, and the paying sub shall face substantial penalties, maybe being muted for 24-72 hours at first, removing their ability to vouch for future trail accounts, ultimitely leading to being banned as well after numerous offenses.
The goal is to allow legitimate trial players to access full communication, and prevent bots from gaining that access. Either the spammers sub for a month anyway, or they risk a different paid account, either way it puts their money where their mouth is.
I like this idea.