I still play EQ on Ragefire, pretty much the only time someone sits down is when they are medding. My main is a Ranger, sometimes I have to remind myself to sit once and a while. So tempting to just pull out the lower level spells with clarity so you don't have to sit at all (I.E. using a lower damange/mana DOT instead of the latest).
Alexander said: Then again, wizards meditating near the back lines between casting spells while the group attacks IS fairly RL badass, so... still works. Only way to remove it would be to restructure things so, even if there's no incombat +mana regen, casters wouldnt be forced to melee... very often.
The Original post of this thread was not leading to the idea of removing meditating at all but rather just changing the animation and keeping all the same effects.
Its like a spell partical essantally where as when you cast the spell you would never see it if they did not add an animation and spell particals to the spell. Same thing is happening with "Meditation", the "Sit" animation is like a spell partical added to "Sit" to emply you are "meditating", We are discussing the thought of just changing the animation of how we meditate instead of just "sitting" down while I.E. fighting Nagafen (for those that have not played EQ1, he is a raid monster that required an experianced raid party of 4 groups consisting of 6 players per group, and have to be level 50 (no lower, no higher to fight)), because that is just ridiculous.
Medjai said:The medding in Pantheon, looks... well, bad (sorry brad) the head down thing bothers me. Also when they were in the dungeon and medding with a torch, they were basically setting themselves on fire.
It looked really dumb. If a standing medditation isn't possible, I would rather see them sit down indian style like they did in EQ1.
Of course if you do sit down, you would Also be medding. I just don't like the medding animation that's IN pantheon right now.
I like some of the ideas other have added as well. Like the kneel, fist down thing etc. too many to call out. but I like what people are thinking here.
I really agree with this, It could just that is just a placeholder or; what they have decided to just implemented that into the game for the pre-pre alpha and just stuck with it.
But I just hope that was not their final decision and hope they plan on changing that because TBH it looks like they are sleeping in the middle of combat.
(Sorry if Spelling and grammar is off, working night shift and I was not able to take a nap because it was just to damn hot.)
Its an interesting idea and wouldnt bother me much at all if it was included, though i am not as much of a fan of it as some maybe because I enjoy meditation in RL and maybe thats why i think the sitting to meditate concept makes good sense, remember meditating was just that before they took the spell book in eq away and it just became sitting lol... and when you think of meditating as in creating your own "clarity" of mind, i dont have a problem with "sitting" at all as the chosen graphic with the consideration that this is not just sitting but meditating... but yeah having the animation look a bit more like your trying to regain as much spent brain power as possible through the use of mindful meditation would be great or a basic animation of mana being drawn from the world around you whilst sitting in deep thought makes the most sense to me. A skill / animation that seems to have the player drawing in external power to replenish mana would work maybe like tai chi or something but a group of casters all doing the same animation during med time kind of seems like it would look more silly than a bunch of people sitting and meditating.. I also like the fact that you are vunrable while sitting & medding.
Having a second tier of meditating ability being one where your eyes are closed and it gives you an increased mana regen seems cool, so lets say 4per tick sitting with eyes open and 6per tick with eyes closed or buried into the spell book may be somthing to consider as a possibility, this makes life much more dangerous but greater reward, good for buffing pre fights when you know your safe etc. Have a button to toggle eyes open and eyes closed, with lets say a 3 second delay in the regen increase between changing from eyes open to eyes closed.
Edit: The one thing i hope we can all agree on is that a caster shouldnt just have mana regening at a fast rate all the time or whilst also able to be still fighting / casting. Classes in a group or soloing being able to juggle mana and dps or cc is so important to the game and ability to do this efficiently can often be the difference between a really good good group and a pretty good group, so have a ultra convenient way to regen mana without taking yourself out of the fight feels like it will change the dynamics of casting classes a bit. If a wiz drops bombs till he is almost empty he should have to sit out of the fight because his mana is all dried up and his staff / dagger is hardly effective in his hands (hopefully).
Hokanu said:Edit: The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that a caster shouldnt just have mana regening at a fast rate all the time or whilst also able to be still fighting / casting. Classes in a group or soloing being able to juggle mana and dps or cc is so important to the game and ability to do this efficiently can often be the difference between a really good good group and a pretty good group, so have a ultra convenient way to regen mana without taking yourself out of the fight feels like it will change the dynamics of casting classes a bit. If a wiz drops bombs till he is almost empty he should have to sit out of the fight because his mana is all dried up and his staff / dagger is hardly effective in his hands (hopefully).
Well Normally meditating was a flat rate of regen based off your stats. Your out of combat regen was always higher than your incombat regen in most MMO's, Not all but most MMO's. Meditating is also a way of juggling mana, especially in LONG duration battles. If you think about mages in the form of combat they have studied years in the arcane world, and have way less experience in the way of weapons so to be honest having them standing up in the front with everyone else and whacking the mob with thier itty bitty little daggers or weak little staves and wands. It makes more sense for the mages to be sitting in the back planning their next move managing their mana to use their more power attacks on the bigger guys and maybe even needing to waste all of their mana to quickly burn a target down as it could potentially ruin your party in a very very bad way. There as some times as a mage I just sat in the back with really close to full mana and didnt cast any spells on the little trash mob but this little trash mob had pulled one of the bigger named mobs in the zone and I was really lucky that I had saved my mana and ended up nuking the mob down to death, may have pulled all the hate but I just kept nuking until it had died. Granted I had died in the proccess because DoTs etc... but in reality I probably had saved the group as the cleric was oom because he wanted to be a battle cleric.
LeonSanborn said:Hokanu said:Edit: The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that a caster shouldnt just have mana regening at a fast rate all the time or whilst also able to be still fighting / casting. Classes in a group or soloing being able to juggle mana and dps or cc is so important to the game and ability to do this efficiently can often be the difference between a really good good group and a pretty good group, so have a ultra convenient way to regen mana without taking yourself out of the fight feels like it will change the dynamics of casting classes a bit. If a wiz drops bombs till he is almost empty he should have to sit out of the fight because his mana is all dried up and his staff / dagger is hardly effective in his hands (hopefully).
Well Normally meditating was a flat rate of regen based off your stats. Your out of combat regen was always higher than your incombat regen in most MMO's, Not all but most MMO's. Meditating is also a way of juggling mana, especially in LONG duration battles. If you think about mages in the form of combat they have studied years in the arcane world, and have way less experience in the way of weapons so to be honest having them standing up in the front with everyone else and whacking the mob with thier itty bitty little daggers or weak little staves and wands. It makes more sense for the mages to be sitting in the back planning their next move managing their mana to use their more power attacks on the bigger guys and maybe even needing to waste all of their mana to quickly burn a target down as it could potentially ruin your party in a very very bad way. There as some times as a mage I just sat in the back with really close to full mana and didnt cast any spells on the little trash mob but this little trash mob had pulled one of the bigger named mobs in the zone and I was really lucky that I had saved my mana and ended up nuking the mob down to death, may have pulled all the hate but I just kept nuking until it had died. Granted I had died in the proccess because DoTs etc... but in reality I probably had saved the group as the cleric was oom because he wanted to be a battle cleric.
Aye we're definitely on the same page with this one, that wiz dropping his bombs and not juggling mana is doing worse for the group than better in the long run unless sheeat had just hit the fan, managing downtime through mana supply is an art in itself!
LeonSanborn said:Alexander said: Then again, wizards meditating near the back lines between casting spells while the group attacks IS fairly RL badass, so... still works. Only way to remove it would be to restructure things so, even if there's no incombat +mana regen, casters wouldnt be forced to melee... very often.The Original post of this thread was not leading to the idea of removing meditating at all but rather just changing the animation and keeping all the same effects.
Exactly Leon, it was about the animation.
Alexander said: I was actually responding to alephen's post regarding the necessity of in-combat enhanced mana regen. I responded to Kobra on the first page with a pretty emphatic "sweet idea!" I'm on a phone and don't see quote/editing tools, so anyone reading my posts wouldn't see my chain of thought.
No worries! :P I saw that you originally posted earlier. I was just reaffirming there.
Kobrashade said:Alexander said: I was actually responding to alephen's post regarding the necessity of in-combat enhanced mana regen. I responded to Kobra on the first page with a pretty emphatic "sweet idea!" I'm on a phone and don't see quote/editing tools, so anyone reading my posts wouldn't see my chain of thought.No worries! :P I saw that you originally posted earlier. I was just reaffirming there.
Ah its all good, I did not see the bridge between the comments
Kobrashade said:
I have to admit, I was scared to post originally because I got a vibe that sitting "medding" was huge in eq1 and didn't want it to seem as if I didn't like the combat impact which I do.
This bums me out a little bit.
Us EQ'ers can be a cantankerous group of nerds, but I'd hate for others to feel like they can't voice suggestions. This is a great one. I agree with most others here.
This isn't a change to a mechanic - the premise is the same. You still have to do the same thing, you just look better doing it. I'm always down for visual improvements.
I could be all on board for this as long as the penalties for medding while in combat are the same. It should raise your agro level as you would be in a weakened/unprotected state (easy target). I could definitely see different race/class based meditation stances/styles for sure.
I won't derail this thread, but, I'd prefer no increased out of combat mana regeneration.
Dullahan said:I think an interesting mechanic would be to have a sort of in combat mana regen stance/ability but being hit while using it would cost you mana. Like Raiden said, it could give you aggro and cause mobs when able, to randomly attack you if nearby.
Cost mana and health when hit i assume?? or do you mean it is doubling as a mana shield? (from what i know about you i am guessing no to mana shield but just wanted to clarify)
Well... "medding" = meditation.
I understand the OP's point, but perhaps what he/she is referring to is an up-level stance, or technique to increase mana. But he is not describing meditation, or the clearing of the mind... etc.
Hieromonk said:Well... "medding" = meditation.
I understand the OP's point, but perhaps what he/she is referring to is an up-level stance, or technique to increase mana. But he is not describing meditation, or the clearing of the mind... etc.
Aye its seems like it is best described as drawing mana from your surroundings and not meditating as such, either works for me, I am more on the sitting to med side of things but i wouldnt be bothered either way, definitely not keen on the current sitting animation for reasons stated by many on here (looks a little sad and or sleepy) but an upright sitting meditating position would be my 1st pref
Hokanu said:Dullahan said:I think an interesting mechanic would be to have a sort of in combat mana regen stance/ability but being hit while using it would cost you mana. Like Raiden said, it could give you aggro and cause mobs when able, to randomly attack you if nearby.
Cost mana and health when hit i assume?? or do you mean it is doubling as a mana shield? (from what i know about you i am guessing no to mana shield but just wanted to clarify)
Right, mana in addition to whatever damage. It would basically become a minigame. As you draw mana during combat, your hate increases. If you try to draw too much, you gain aggro and if you're interrupted, you lose some of the mana you recovered.
I put some more thought into it, but for RP purposes I'm not sure having people sit down to meditate even makes sense, unless it's AFTER a fight. Battles are loud things, and it's hard to see what's going on sometimes. How does sitting help you know your tank in low on health and needs some healing? I really like the idea of allowing meditation while standing, and making it an actual activity you have to do... like channeling. Maybe it could have something visual happening on screen, sometimes in EQ I don't know if I've sitting or standing (my main is a Ranger) - something like adding a glowy blur to everything, or just a halo around the screen like the melee attacks, like make it blue instead of red.
And again, I like sitting for regening hp. The mechanic of meditation should be able to be used sitting or standing, but you get more hp regen sitting. To balance it I suppose getting less mana while standing might make sense.
I am coming round in full circle i think, passing go but not collecting 200pp... starting to like the concept more and more as we add exta bits of detail to it, standing while medding with its own agro and vulnerability is great and then also sitting while medding with an extra bit of mana per tick but incresed agro and also increased vulnerability, sitting sounds like a nice risk to take for 20cc's of mana.. stat! in a fight! :p
Still with all this in mind and with myself having the intention to be an enchanter.. i actually think that you other classes should regen mana back at a horribly slow speed and i mean like rage quit slow no matter what you do ;) and then in turn roll out the red carpet and grovel at my feet when I arrive at the scene to throw my pantheon version of clarity around to those who are worthy mwuhaha :p (I dont think mana regen is confirmed for enchanters but i am going all in for it lol anways on this one)!
Hokanu said:Still with all this in mind and with myself having the intention to be an enchanter.. i actually think that you other classes should regen mana back at a horribly slow speed and i mean like rage quit slow no matter what you do ;) and then in turn roll out the red carpet and grovel at my feet when I arrive at the scene to throw my pantheon version of clarity around to those who are worthy mwuhaha :p (I dont think mana regen is confirmed for enchanters but i am going all in for it lol anways on this one)!
hehe :)
Dullahan said:Hokanu said:Dullahan said:I think an interesting mechanic would be to have a sort of in combat mana regen stance/ability but being hit while using it would cost you mana. Like Raiden said, it could give you aggro and cause mobs when able, to randomly attack you if nearby.
Cost mana and health when hit i assume?? or do you mean it is doubling as a mana shield? (from what i know about you i am guessing no to mana shield but just wanted to clarify)
Right, mana in addition to whatever damage. It would basically become a minigame. As you draw mana during combat, your hate increases. If you try to draw too much, you gain aggro and if you're interrupted, you lose some of the mana you recovered.
I think this thread contains a lot of ideas that are pretty interesting.
They could even play off the "progress bar" approach they discussed in the live stream. As you med/channel back mana, the progress bar fills up in a lighter blue. If you take damage, then you lose a large chunk of the mana you would have gained by being interrupted. Situational awareness would be key, as you would want to break your stance prior to being hit to avoid the big mana loss. This could add even more danger and immersion into the world.
Great suggestion, I still remember kiting things on my Druid, running low on mana, and then sitting with the spellbook open taking up the whole screen and guessing how long you had till your mobs got into melee range again. A pose or something would be great, or an ablility that you cast that gathers in mana and could be interrupted and works with a mob's AI, as others have suggested.
Maybe have different tiers of medding? I like the idea of a kneeling animation for deeper reflection for faster and larger recovery amounts, but what if we had lesser medding form where the player stands still in a recovery pose with a quicker recovery rate with significantly less mana recovered? I think it would add an extra dynamic to battle for desperate situations or perhaps for melee casters or those constantly on the move. As someone who enjoyed hybrid classes I always hated running low on mana and having no way to recover until the end of the fight...
Also I think sitting should be a totally separate thing from medding, sitting is something I do to look cool lol