I think most of your target player base will agree that in-game reputation is important. As MMOs have evolved into rapid fire dungeon runs and the race to end game content, social niceties and reputation have diminshed. For younger players this is all they have known so it might not be as important as to players who have been gaming for awhile.
Playing a healer in EQ I quickly found out the benefits of being a team player. I relied on helping others to get invited into groups to help level and in return for services provided I would often get choice loot, monetary payment, and/or a quick shout out for doing a good job. I generally follow the pay it forward mentality, when someone does a kindness for me I will return the favor to the next player I see.
Since Pantheon is touting itself as a return to a more social MMO I would hope that a lot of thought is going into how to minimize anonymity and increase the penalties for players who ignore or abuse the system. In previous posts it seemed like the team was leaning toward a more buyer beware mentality relying on the community to impose penalties on disruptive players, but I feel in-game systems should be put in place to deter such behaviour.
It is a difficult problem that eSports has been struggling with for awhile. I don't think there is an easy/best fix. Most likely a combination of player ratings along with character rewards and penalties to encourage working together. Also, avoiding the trappings of modern mmos that lead to a breakdown in communication; dungeon finders, hard-coded gear scores, and cross-server matching to name a few. Getting back to class and profession interdependence will also help encourage characters to play well with others.
Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
Act without worry. In EQ2 a player died in real life and they had a funeral progression in a PVP zone (Stupid) they must have had 150-200 Qeyno players all doing this tribute march. Well I got word of it assempled 48 of our best players and we wrecked that party. For a solid 90 minutes we were killing them all over and over as they zerged us until a GM Zoned in and froze everyone.
Two weeks later I had de guilded to help a friend and was asked to betray and join 5 guilds on the qeyno side all of them part of the massacare of Kylong Plains.
I maintain that you can act how every you want as long as you play your class as one of the best. Being one of the best Paladins in EQ2 I could do anything and still get group invites without trying
Kalgore said:Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
Act without worry. In EQ2 a player died in real life and they had a funeral progression in a PVP zone (Stupid) they must have had 150-200 Qeyno players all doing this tribute march. Well I got word of it assempled 48 of our best players and we wrecked that party. For a solid 90 minutes we were killing them all over and over as they zerged us until a GM Zoned in and froze everyone.
Two weeks later I had de guilded to help a friend and was asked to betray and join 5 guilds on the qeyno side all of them part of the massacare of Kylong Plains.
I maintain that you can act how every you want as long as you play your class as one of the best. Being one of the best Paladins in EQ2 I could do anything and still get group invites without trying
So basically you crashed a funeral procession and ganked people showing respect because you could? Wow! That is sad. I cannot believe you'd own up to something like that. What you show is a lack of character unfortunately.
What character you show in game to some degree is a reflection of what type of character you are in real life. Says a lot, doesn't it?
Joshue said:Kalgore said:Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
Act without worry. In EQ2 a player died in real life and they had a funeral progression in a PVP zone (Stupid) they must have had 150-200 Qeyno players all doing this tribute march. Well I got word of it assempled 48 of our best players and we wrecked that party. For a solid 90 minutes we were killing them all over and over as they zerged us until a GM Zoned in and froze everyone.
Two weeks later I had de guilded to help a friend and was asked to betray and join 5 guilds on the qeyno side all of them part of the massacare of Kylong Plains.
I maintain that you can act how every you want as long as you play your class as one of the best. Being one of the best Paladins in EQ2 I could do anything and still get group invites without trying
So basically you crashed a funeral procession and ganked people showing respect because you could? Wow! That is sad. I cannot believe you'd own up to something like that. What you show is a lack of character unfortunately.
What character you show in game to some degree is a reflection of what type of character you are in real life. Says a lot, doesn't it?
Pretty much Yah Because we could because it was a PVP server and they were in a zone that allowed PVP. In my eyes I did nothing wrong besides play the game how it was supposed to. Again what did this act do to my player REP?? Nothing at all besides up my PVP kill count by about 1000
I also infiltrated a Corporation in Eve spent almost 18 months working my way up the ranks then stole about 50 billion isk and sold out there Armada to my real Corp and had it destroyed because we had a 3 to1 advantage. Guess what I played eve exactly how it was supposed to be played so why does that make my player rep bad
I feel reputation is important. Within a tightly knit community reputation goes a long way. You can have a great attitude or you can be a prick. But you can also be good at your class...or not. Guild leaders may know about you before you even apply to their guild and depending on your past behavior you may have a foot already in the door or possibly both feet already on their way out.
Filling spots in your group is often determined by rep alone. If you need a tank and among the choices lfg you have someone known to be great at tanking and someone known to make your day a living hell, the decision becomes easy for most. What I find interesting is that skill often trumps personality. I've seen many times where a group would rather put up with a jerk of a player just because they are a great healer or a great tank rather than someone who is poor at their class but has a great personality.
My characters reputation is more important to me than my lvl or my gear. When you see me run by, or hear my name, thats my soul. I do everything I can to make sure that when you hear my name said, you think quality, and respect. Im not willing to tarnish my reputation for all the plat in POK's main bank.... well now that I think of how much plat has been put in that bank in the last 11 years... NO! no! nevermind not worth it....
I was wondering if next to the NPC Dispositions there will be NPC personalities (sometimes temporary)
Added in front of the mob/NPC name
Shy-Fidgety
Friendly - Rude
Agressive - Arrogant
Mischievous - Impish
Lazy - Clumsy
Now to get to what I was wondering about;Could your character response to (and way of interacting with) NPC personality ,affect reputation?
Manouk said:Yes, my characters repuation in game is important to me.
The game provides an easy environment where I can significantly benefit others and reap the benefits of it in game-where it might not be so easy to do the same in RL.
This is why i like RP servers because you can play off of that with Evil races or characters who like being evil. I will allow their being evil to act like a jerk.
What shall we say then, Shall we continue to (be griefers) that (RP) grace may abound? God(s) Forbid.
I do hope that they instill a hybrid or race penalty.
I don't mind if Goodies grouping with Evils has a game mechanic barb to it.
Not all of us who roleplay evil characters act like "a-holes" while grouped or use it as an excuse to be griefers/jerks/rule breakers. If I ever heard of a Shadow Guard member doing that, they'd probably get booted. Just because your character is evil-aligned with dark intentions, it doesn't mean you get a "ruin others play" card when it comes to game/community mechanics.
Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
Never played a game where it actually mattered or wasnt easily resetable with a name change or just a reroll. Thats why im hoping this games social mechanics work with account handles instead of character names.
.... except chat threads... and with invisible login psettings.
It depends how competitive the general server population is, if its the wild wild west type servers (like EQ progression servers or PVP servers), I won't go out of my way, but I also won't back down from DPS racing/KSing or Training others. Because its Kill or Be Killed. On those types of servers reputation matters just as much as others if not more "Don't train Sunmistress, dude will grief you for the rest of your toons life" is usually a good deterrant, it just matters in a different way.
If the server culture is more laid back I obviously am going to avoid such shenanigans. Basically when in Rome, Do as the Romans do.
If you make a name for being effective and not being a toolshed, Generally people are going to want to group with you, even if you occasionally do some ethically questionable things anyways.
Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
I usually don't do what I don't want done to me. This usually tends to help me keep a decent reputation despite my love of messing around sometimes=)
However, if I feel someone is a little too hard core or cruel, and needs a poke in the ribs...
Kalgore, my hat is off to you. That is absolutely brutal. And I'd like to say, me personally, I think you showed that passed away player more respect than all of the others. By being completely PvP in the grandest sense imaginable. Wrecking a funeral. God, I wish I could have witnessed that.
Aside from that, I think reputation is everything.
I hate how someone can hide on an alt when they've been a complete jerk.
I think it'd be great if when being inspected, someone could see the names of your alts.
/ignore and /anon would work just fine if someone wants to pester you.
Kilsin said:Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
Yes. My character reputation and my own-which are completely attached to each other-is very important to me. And i ,too, wish there was a way to check on players reputation in game. This is one of the most important reasons why name change/server change should not be allowed. T be a super buttwipe and then just change your name so you can "repair" your reputation is just a way of putting the inevitable off. You will revert back to a buttwipe eventually.
Sevens said:I am hoping you are talking more about the players Reputation and not about the character rep. Player Rep was such a huge factor in EQ, if you were an ass then the server quickly learned that and you were blackballed making getting a group that much harder. In modern MMOs you can solo your way to max level or just cross server dungeon run and never have to worry about it. Please for all the gods in the Pantheon make Reputation matter, no cross server dungeons, no auto ques, no server hopping! If you act like an ass then you should suffer the concequences.
Ok i gota ask, what IS the difference according to you between the two???
Player rep VS character rep....
Kalgore you're an .....,
I know why you did it and i agree with the fact that what you did fits within the rules but you and your friend still are...
Funny in a weird sort of sick way.
@ Kilsin I find it odd you ask this question when in fact you guys closed many thread such as this one regarding player rep.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5954/creating-social-accountability/view/page/2
Ill answer with what i wrote on that thread.
.
.
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Funny tho, we cant rate each other in game but we rate plenty of things in real life.
Rate a restaurant, rate an UBER driver. Rate a movie/book etc!!
Basically there is a LOT of things that are rated out there that affect people in ways that actually matter to them.
I do have to say after writing this that i can see why and i do understand the potential abuse.
Yet i think it should be an option. Maybe not so much for down vote but maybe to upvote someone or a several players with whom you have played to let other knows they are awesome! Why punish the bad when you can be positive and rewards good behavior? Basically you could ONLY upvote someone. A cleric rezz your butt down in a dungeon deep? Upvote him, Someone teaches you how to pull a certain camp? UPVOTE... If a player griefs you, well fill a petition and let the GM deal with it. Only positivity is there to vote on a player.
The ADVANTAGE of this....
People with lots of upvote can/could get access to social store with dance moves, and stuff like particle effects, dyes etc.
When people see other players with neat titles or fancy particule effects or anything that will make other reach for the "cookie" then maybe you will change potential bad behavior.
So instead of looking at negative social accountability, look at it from a positive side.
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So after having written that a while back, i came to the conclusion that one may think this could get abused but if you look at rating systems being used by UBER, TRIP ADVISOR, EBAY etc.
Most ratings tend to be a very accurate picture of what is being rated with in fact very little to no abuse. The reason why is because most rating process tend to take time to submit. People dont like to take this much time and simply dont bother.
Now if you follow the idea i proposed above, That of having ONLY positive UPVOTES then there is zero negativity and it forces folks to be better players.
What is the point of taking about player rep when nothing is done to support it?
I think it is fair to say that most folks do care about their rep but MOST games out there dont care about it and dont do anything or have any system in place to support a player rep! Which is frankly a damn shame! The year isnt 1999 and you cant expect people to police themselves much.
A carot system is better than a whip system!
EDIT: Apologies if this is being brought back. I know you guys said no player rep system but since this thread was brought for by you, I simply dont think you can ask about player rep without talking about yes, a rating system! Call it something else! A rating system is a bit un-RPG'esque i grant you that!
Call it community level or something similar. I just think that this would go a long way to support a rep system rather than hoping that the community will police itself which we all know after 20 years of MMO is in fact going to the way of the Dodo! Let's reward virtue and good community and ignore the jack assery, that would go a long way to support the players reputation.
cheers!
Funny side note Kalgore pretty sure both of those events you are talking about have made you a legend. If they are the ones I am thinking of.
FYI that massacre at the funeral procession in EQ 2 was #2 on a list for greatest MMORPG trolling events. I'll see if I can find the list.
Sunmistress said:Funny side note Kalgore pretty sure both of those events you are talking about have made you a legend. If they are the ones I am thinking of.
FYI that massacre at the funeral procession in EQ 2 was #2 on a list for greatest MMORPG trolling events. I'll see if I can find the list.
The one you're thinking of was actually in WoW. It may have also happened in EQ2, but I find strangely coincidental that one person is claiming to have been a part of 2 of the top 7 biggest dick moves in online gaming.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-biggest-dick-moves-in-history-online-gaming/
If what he's claiming is actually true, I'm sure a "legend" is exactly how we would want to be viewed. But I just see it as someone who is desperate for attention and doesn't have the capability of gaining fame by more wholesome means, so just takes the low path to notoriety.
Beefcake said:No ratings. Period.
Beside quoting what is already known, are you not able to articulate a thought?
The question Kilsin asked is this:
Is your character's in-game reputation on the server that you play on important to you or do you act without worry of consequences? :)
What does it matter if it is one or the other? I am a supporter of this game like most everyone here but until something is DONE to actually support a way to make sure that character game reputation matters! Then you'll be face with player reputation DOES NOT matter because there is no consequences to bad or good actions beyond that of the few who have this as personal values when they game.
Consequences, that's the key word here.
If someone act like a jackass and make no mistakes, this game will be awesome but it will not prevent those players who get kicks out of being as such to partake in their favorite pastime here as well.
My money is that just like every other MMO out there that consequences for player who decide to act in a negative fashion while in game wont have much weight attached to it. Yes back in the beginning of EQ, players who were bad apples were known, but it was another time. Circumstances were different and dont expect a revival of this self policing aspect of MMO's to be reproduced here. I hope i am wrong but if you think the "Good Old days" are gona be back, you are being naive.
So ill answer Kilsin question.
Yes game rep is extremely important to me but what actual concrete measures are you going to implement to make sure this has any weight and consequences to players who act without due care about THEIR rep?
yeah there is but i didnt start it, I am answering the post with my comment and thoughts. Which if i may say so make a whole lot of sense.
EDIT; and to be honest, leaving it to the community is a major cop out! Name me ONE MMO who has left it to the community and succeeded in enhancing the good behavior/player rep.
I remember it being said that de-leveling wouldn't be possible and then all of the sudden it was on the table. I remember hearing that specializations may or may not end up being in the game and then a week later the monk is revealed ... specializations in tact. Regardless of whether or not any sort of reputation system will be implemented into the game, people are allowed to talk about it. The tenacious desire to stifle conversation on this forum is abhorrent. If I had a dime for every time someone tried to salt this game ... I'd be in the islands counting change, sippin' some champagne.
Ratings. Yes. Period. End. Dot.
But not really. But I do enjoy hearing how people feel about the matter. These forums have been pretty dry since Agnarr launch. I think we need an injection ... what we definitely do NOT need is an around the clock buzzkill. Thoughts matter guys ... don't ever think otherwise. If you want to talk about reputation systems, go for it. They probably won't make it in the game. But maybe something else will? Maybe that something will spawn from this thread because people continue to socialize? It ain't over til the fat lady sings and the opera hasn't even started yet. Carry on.
Senadin said:yeah there is but i didnt start it, I am answering the post with my comment and thoughts. Which if i may say so make a whole lot of sense.
EDIT; and to be honest, leaving it to the community is a major cop out! Name me ONE MMO who has left it to the community and succeeded in enhancing the good behavior/player rep.
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