Looking down the list of classes on the forums i wondered: What would i play untill they release the Bard and Necro? Then i went deeper and asked myself: What classes do i want to playtest to improve the game? And the answer is: All of them.
How many character slots will we have in early alpha? Do we have to delete toons to test others?
Sure, we could push a toon to max for testing and then switch to a new one,.. but what if changes happen? Recreate the old toon? Will this be done via "-set level 50" commands, or unlimited char slots?
Maybe this has not been set in stone yet, so ill voice my opinion.
I heavily dislike alpha commands to level toons. They are usually used, but let's face it: People will use them more often then is needed for testing and that will hurt the mid level testing a lot. Since pantheon aims to have a great journey that could be fatal. I would prefer to be able to use preset toons at max level for some focus testing, but have them locked for the majority of testing. Finding that critical bugs on level xx, while using item zzz is something the dev team can do WAY easier since they know what could cause issues. The long term testing of the whole level span is better done by players since devs should be working on code and not level the 123th toon.
That being said, some testers do have a lot of spare time or plan on really doing a testing job on this game (i plan on doing that). Those people will have enough time to level several toons, so we need slots!
I would imagine there will be some "cheats" for characters. After all, it is a testing phase and the devs may need help testing various aspects at various levels. Choosing the class though.. I think I prefer to go with a class that I know well. I think it gives you a better insight into how well things work or how they don't work. For instance, playing a healer for several years I think it would be easier to tell what works and what doesn't work with the class, spells, mechanics, etc. I would rather focus on the game world and helping to make it better rather than focusing on learning a class I'm not familiar with. That's what my future alts are for :D
We will have more information on testing when we get closer to it being ready but for now, there is nothing to share as it may change based on our developmental and testing needs, remember, this will be focused testing until we release a beta client, then it will be more open and flexible.
Ultra said:I wish you can be all class on one char like ffxi and ffxiv its much better way to get attachted to your char but since its not i hope they have enough slots so you can atleast be one of everything
Ugh no, I disagree with you here. I feel that waters down everyone's uniqueness, when everyone can be anything. When Bob the Ogre logs in, I know that he's a tank, I like that.
Anyway, I'd like to see 6 slots at the least, but I'd expect 8.
ArchMageSalamar said:Plan on it being something like
create a human character of these available classes and testing the newbie zone by leveling 1-10 a bunch of times and finding bugs.
ok its 3 weeks later now do that with an elf.
This is pretty much how alpha usually goes. It's all focused on certain areas/zones/races/classes each time. You won't get an opened game until beta really. If you're lucky you will get to see some bigger areas towards the end of alpha.
My real hope is that its not certain date ranges to test. If we can only log on to the servers for a weekend then that seriously limits the amount of testing. Most will spend that time just leveling as we would need to get to the higher end of the zone to really test the whole things.
Enitzu said:My real hope is that its not certain date ranges to test. If we can only log on to the servers for a weekend then that seriously limits the amount of testing. Most will spend that time just leveling as we would need to get to the higher end of the zone to really test the whole things.
I imagine if there is a short testing window and you need to be a certain level to test it there will be a cheat that autolevels you to that level so that you can do the testing without having to worry about leveling. Of course they'll need to test the leveling process as well but when everyone is different levels and you need to test a level 10 area then I'm pretty sure they'll just autolevel you to level 10 so you can participate in testing and finding bugs. Pre-alpha and alpha isn't about playing the game it is about testing and if they need everyone to be level 10 for certain testing they'll just autolevel them to save time.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if they did a character wipe fairly often during pre-alpha and alpha testing as well.
Cromulent said:Enitzu said:My real hope is that its not certain date ranges to test. If we can only log on to the servers for a weekend then that seriously limits the amount of testing. Most will spend that time just leveling as we would need to get to the higher end of the zone to really test the whole things.
I imagine if there is a short testing window and you need to be a certain level to test it there will be a cheat that autolevels you to that level so that you can do the testing without having to worry about leveling. Of course they'll need to test the leveling process as well but when everyone is different levels and you need to test a level 10 area then I'm pretty sure they'll just autolevel you to level 10 so you can participate in testing and finding bugs. Pre-alpha and alpha isn't about playing the game it is about testing and if they need everyone to be level 10 for certain testing they'll just autolevel them to save time.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if they did a character wipe fairly often during pre-alpha and alpha testing as well.
Oh I fully expect a bunch of wipes. And the auotleveling is an option for those short testing windows but I feel that testing the leveling process, even over and over, is much more beneficial. You find bugs in doing so that aren't common that way. Testing in short periods is more for boss type testing imo. Specific things rather than the more broad areas. I have seen some companies do weekend testing on areas/zones and some (looking at FFXIV here) did weekend tests for the 1-35 leveling. Granted they didn't wipe between them but weekend tests for that kind of stuff is just too short to really test.
Enitzu said:Cromulent said:Enitzu said:My real hope is that its not certain date ranges to test. If we can only log on to the servers for a weekend then that seriously limits the amount of testing. Most will spend that time just leveling as we would need to get to the higher end of the zone to really test the whole things.
I imagine if there is a short testing window and you need to be a certain level to test it there will be a cheat that autolevels you to that level so that you can do the testing without having to worry about leveling. Of course they'll need to test the leveling process as well but when everyone is different levels and you need to test a level 10 area then I'm pretty sure they'll just autolevel you to level 10 so you can participate in testing and finding bugs. Pre-alpha and alpha isn't about playing the game it is about testing and if they need everyone to be level 10 for certain testing they'll just autolevel them to save time.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if they did a character wipe fairly often during pre-alpha and alpha testing as well.
Oh I fully expect a bunch of wipes. And the auotleveling is an option for those short testing windows but I feel that testing the leveling process, even over and over, is much more beneficial. You find bugs in doing so that aren't common that way. Testing in short periods is more for boss type testing imo. Specific things rather than the more broad areas. I have seen some companies do weekend testing on areas/zones and some (looking at FFXIV here) did weekend tests for the 1-35 leveling. Granted they didn't wipe between them but weekend tests for that kind of stuff is just too short to really test.
I guess when they get to stage where the testing servers are open all the time (from what Kilsin said that'll be around when beta starts) that'll be when they expect people to test out the whole leveling process and the day to day bug finding for things that can't really be tested in a short period of time. I might be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the way things work out.
I am torn about testing too much in alpha/beta. I have been in only 1 alpha and several betas. The games I really thought were good I spent WAY too much time in and kinda got bored with them after release (you hear me talking, EQ2???) Hopefully this will not be the case with Pantheon, since I will only have an hour or so each night to devote to it (or any other game, for that matter).
Anistosoles said:I am torn about testing too much in alpha/beta. I have been in only 1 alpha and several betas. The games I really thought were good I spent WAY too much time in and kinda got bored with them after release (you hear me talking, EQ2???) Hopefully this will not be the case with Pantheon, since I will only have an hour or so each night to devote to it (or any other game, for that matter).
I've had the same thing happen to me with a couple of games that I've tested, EQ2 being one as well. But I think what gets you burnt out quickly after release when you've spent alot of time in testing, are the repeated quests. In a game like EQ the main focus was raising your character however you could, be it grouping or solo xp grind or faction grind, and you chose the areas to do this in. Games like EQ2 and WoW, you're basically on a linear quest path and they get old very fast and none of the areas you goto are of your choice.
So I don't really expect the same to happen here with Pantheon
I hope they dont go down quest only. I like EQ1 way where you can quest but its not so bad to grind and learn toon better. Quests and burst exp output hurts skill work and then upper end gets full fast sometimes with skill-less players which then hurts. I will speak up about one thing NO MERCENARIES> sorry eq was great when you needed diversity and smart players in right classes who knew there character. Groupin was not totally necessary but it helped plus you met other players and ..maybe even mentors. All the mercenaries did was give 3 bot afkers way to level toons afk and hurt upper end with talentless players and now raiding is nearly dead for grouping content only. sorry /rant off*
Anistosoles said:I am torn about testing too much in alpha/beta. I have been in only 1 alpha and several betas. The games I really thought were good I spent WAY too much time in and kinda got bored with them after release (you hear me talking, EQ2???) Hopefully this will not be the case with Pantheon, since I will only have an hour or so each night to devote to it (or any other game, for that matter).
If you're worried about testing too much then please god do not test at all. I, for one, do not want people half-ass testing because they might get bored of the game later on. Testing is a privilege and has responsibilities, one of which is to test as much as possible looking for every flaw, bug, error or imbalance and report it. If anybody is thinking along the same lines worrying about getting burned out then just stay out of alpha and beta.
Anistosoles said:I am torn about testing too much in alpha/beta. I have been in only 1 alpha and several betas. The games I really thought were good I spent WAY too much time in and kinda got bored with them after release (you hear me talking, EQ2???) Hopefully this will not be the case with Pantheon, since I will only have an hour or so each night to devote to it (or any other game, for that matter).
Yeah, I feel ya on this. I had some of the same issues with testing various games as well. I found that if you do not get in too big of a hurry and spend a little time trying to break something than just replaying the same content the same way, it is not too bad. I will have limited time on most nights myself as I have a family to support, but I hope to spend many a weekend day to the cause and most of all to have some fun doing it.
Aye - I suspect there will be a real robust testing schedule. For instance they might say "Tuesday we will be testing the lvl 1-10 Enchnater in [insert location here] area." If you are a real testing and not just an early access player - you will be more than willing to delete a toon of you have too - and test the hell out of that specific situation. Remember - playtesting isn't about whether or not something works - it also matters on the feedback of the experience. Please learn to word and use your abilities accordingly. I would suggest that if you want to experience the "long haul" of a specific class - then don't. While in the test phase you can almost certainly ensure that your "long-haul" experience from lvl 1 to 100 is not going to be anywhere close to what you had. Next, when they get to specific testing - say something like "Tuesday we will be testing the lvl 40 to 50 Enchanter over in the [insert location here] area", they will probably have a means for popping you a naked character/class that matches and then be able to give you a bag full of appropriate level equipment.
Generally when I test - and I have tested eq2, VG, E&B, UO, Elder Scrolls, SWTOR, etc. - I keep 1 toon I do NOT erase over and over - and I use that one class to experience and "test" lore (spelling issues etc.). All remaining slots I delete as needed. Do NOT get attached to your toons! All of em are marked for death.
Although, it would be kinda cool if we get to progeny ONE toon based on testing as a reward for testing : ).
There is a big difference between what most people experience ('Open Beta' testing which is really load-testing/early-access) and real Alpha/Beta testing.
For those of you concerned over 'burning out' *a very real worry) during play-testing, I would say again that Alpha (and even Beta) testing is not like the 'open-beta' type testing that many games offer.
Alpha-Testing:
Likely testing small areas of the game for a short period. Eg: testing some new form of leashing, or testing 'starter quest line' to see if you can skip/break it, er even perhaps testing 'pet modes'. In most cases you will have an objective for testing and be expected to note any errors along the way (even those associated with textures, lighting, terrain errors etc if asked).
Beta-Testing:
This is closer to what many imagine testing to be, as many have explained above. (see above) Here there is a danger of 'over exposing' yourself to the game, but it is highly unlikely that the testing experiecnce you get will be remotely like the 'proper' post-Live experience.
Early Access:
Likely biggest danger to burn-out. The sense of 'urgency' imprinted on you when you enter the Early Access phase is likely to mean you stay on and play waay more than you would usually expect to. In many ways this is counter-productive as it leads you to increase vertical progression at the expense of horizontal. It is also more pronounced in MMOs where there are tangible assets that can be gained (eg player housing) which are in contention vs other players. This form of 'Land Grab' or 'Gold Rush' activity is actually more liekly to cause burn-out issues than earlier Alpha/Beta testing where you *knew* assets were to be wiped.
So, don't be afraid to support Pantheon through Alpha/Beta testing since you will likely only get 'snapshots' of the game (which can be a good thing if you like being teased!) but do beware to carefully monitor and control the ammount of time you give over to Early-Access (if they indeed have this).
Advice:
Don't 'rush' vertcally ... take the time to enjoy yourself and smell the roses (even if you do have to kill the ogre standing on them!).
Think of the benefit for 'Kirito enjoying the best Weather and Season as he lies on the grass'.
(Hope somebody gets the reference hehe)
I've tested a few games, been a Guide, and even played on Test Servers wherein the GMs would ask you directly if you'd be willing to put your grind on hold and come lend a hand. Of course I will!
I read an earlier post regarding 'privelage and it's accompanying responsibilites'. Very true.
I've seen it as either recieving set assignments (Level from 1 to 10, as such-and-such race / class, then rinse and repeat as ...), or you're asked to play in a specific area, or to try out combines (tradeskills) with these frees stacks of materials, but it ALWAYS ended with Feedback and Bug Reporting.
It's a little like a part-time job at that comic shop you enjoy so much. Working on a thing you like (love) and actually contributing to it's up-keep / improvement.
I'm looking forward to pre-alpha, then beta, then storming the castle(s) in Live play.
If I get to say that I helped create something that I liked and it becomes something that I (and others) grow to love, so much the BETTER! If someone hates it, or woyuld rather wait and tear-it-up in Live, then that's a choice too.
Just not mine. :D
Game On!
I've tested before and look forward to doing it again. VR will, of course, decide what needs testing and I don't expect a huge amount of freedom in alpha. But we should all remember we aren't even up to so-called pre-Alpha so all of this is rather ...premature though it is good to look forward to the opportunities ahead. Personally my main interest is character creation and the earliest levels so within the boundaries VR sets I will spend as much time as I can creating every race and every class available and testing the starter areas and backstories. My experience tells me that more people prefer jumping to higher levels and testing dungeons, raids and the like. Good to have a few oddballs like me that do not. The character creation screen is a God I can worship it endlessly!
There is absolutely no reason to not have enough character slots to have 1 slot for every class, the limited character slots thing came about because of cash shops selling character slots, since we know that won't be an issue with Pantheon, there should be no reason we can't have as many character slots as there are classes.
When I played Beta for Everquest I know myself and a couple of others were testing out Innothule Swamp (something to do with the water or the z-axis) and archery. I don't remember if we were given a choice of what to test (in my mind I seem to remember a list of things or areas or something that we could test) but I do remember providing feedback. That was a long time ago. But if my memory serves correct, it was exciting to be part of a testing program. And as low level trolls we spent a lot of time getting pounded on and fleeing and the like, but it certainly didn't seem to dampen our spirits and we'd just get right back out there and try to test some more.
Reading through those that post on this forum I am quite confident there are a lot of other like minded individuals that would simply be having an enjoyable time testing aspects of the game and providing feedback. Those that can offer more hours for play testing would probably relish the opportunity to have a few character slots to be able to contribute - even if it is as a change of pace of what to test. Those of us with not as much time to test will be fine with just one character slot.
For testing, one slot is entirely sufficient. More are gravy. Test as much as you want to with the class/race you create and then murd ....((cough)) send the character to a well deserved holiday on a resort island and create a new one. Toonicide is something that needs to be tested too and I will test that so much I will probably be hauled up on charges of genocide. But I'm not worried about that as long as I can delete the judge.