done alot of crafting through the years in various games and always had a love/hate relationship with that facet of the mmo world.having said that the only game i have run itno where crafting made sense and was actually useful throughout the leveling process and in the game world was in darkfall everything dropped in game could also be crafted.houses and guild projects such as castles.need a boat craft one and there were whole lines of ships from the simple raft to multi gun ships to transports and fishing vessels.all classes of armor and weapons.potions and scrolls could be made and anyone could also enchant to make magical weapons.all craftable and all can be destroyed or captured or stolen,it was also open world pvp with a few safe havens still fun if it wasn't made by a greek company that took a government loan....
anywho looking foward to what Pantheon and VG has in store for us
Aradune nice to see you making games again i still remember getting into vanguard pre-alpha and you giving out smeds personal email in global so we could harass him
Tradeskills are awesome when done well, however I cannot pick just one, EQ let me level them all to a point if I remember right. Other games make you pick just one or two. I prefer the EQ way, because everything becomes useful and it is just another way to advance my character and its economic viability. Saying which is my favorite is difficult because that depends on the game. Certain games do a specific tradeskill better than others, and "Tradeskill A" might not appeal to me in "MMO A" but they implement it much better and more interestingly in "MMO B" where I chose it for that specific game. I hope that makes sense.
I like crafting in mmo's. But my past experience has been that I've had to spend so much time and money making garbage items that nobody wants, and it feels like a waste of time.
Early EQ was a good example. As a lower level Blacksmith, I could make a lot of different weapon types, but no lower level people ever wanted to buy any of them. Usually because theres not much difference in a weapon that I could make, and a weapon they could get by killing some random mob. Plus so many players had better gear that was either handed down by a higher level alt or by some other higher level player. It typically wasnt until higher levels, that you could start to make items that more people would actually want to buy. So you had to devote a lot of time and lose a lot of money before you started to feel like you were doing something worthwhile.
It would be nice to be able to start making money right off the bat. It doesnt have to be a lot, just enough so that you arent losing a whole lot of money trying to build your skill level up.
Also, in EQ I HATED the fact that your crafting skill was limited by what your character level was. What I mean is, in EQ1, most of the skills were maxed by using the formula 5x(player level) + 5.
That may be fine for combat skills, but my character level (which is determined by how much fighting you are doing) shouldn't have anything to do with my crafting level. Fighting and crafting should be independent of each other. If I'm level 5, and I want to just keep crafting until my skill level hits 200, I dont see why I shouldnt be able to. Actually I feel this way about many skils, but thats a different topic altogether.
As far as favorite craft, I really dont have one. I just like being able to make cool items that are useful and would be of interest to other players to buy.
I really enjoyed class specific trade skills such as my Shaman’s “Alchemy”. I would spend days hunting down ingredients and items in order to create my Alchemy items that I would give or sell to others. I liked that only Shamans were able to do Alchemy, it made the class feel authentic to me (in a gamer kind of way…)
Krixus said:Nope. I made some patchwork armor in May of 1999 and that's it.
No banded? And it took a month from release to make Patchwork....
Back on topic - I enjoy tradeskilling for a change of pace. My favorite tradeskill is the one that will be most supportive/complementary to my character. If I'm a tank, being a Blacksmith for example. I enjoy having multiple ways to progress.
Kayahni said:I still enjoy turning the trash in my inventory into something useful.
I like crafting for exactly this same reason. Like brewing and baking and like Raidan said it make sense that a warrior would want to improve blacksmithing a ranger, fletching. However I also enjoy the oblique pathways into certain levels of skills. Like the inter-skill recipe for fishbone darts, fishing- to catch the fish, baking-to make the meal that produced bones- and in the sentiment of Kayahni above- being able to fletch those bones into fishbone darts so as to not waste anything, was cool.
From a character role-play perspective a caster might not pursue smithing to its max, although the caster could, if so desired but it mde sense to me to be able to have a smattering of skille accross the board, at various levels- kind of like the liberal-arts concept to crafting.
This is a tough one... I often do tradeskills but can't say it is always fun. It is so easy for this to be linear and repetitive.
I would not mind if the system offered some kind of character benefit by maxing the first half of a tradeskill. Let the true grinders take it higher than half way. An example would be leatherworking, your character puts in a decent amount of time, gathering, build skills, etc., and then earns the right for extra inventory space (available in no similar fashion elsewhere). Another example would be alchemy, where at halfway through, your character now earns 30% longer on effects. Another example would be tailoring, halfway thru, your character now earns an option for colored accessory armor (fill-in enhancements surrounding regular armor that offers individuality).
I would be all over this and not feel like it grinds as bad.
I use to hate crafting but I'm now a true crafter in the sense I loved the group gathering in Vanguard and did it with my guild loads of us getting extra goodies was a brilliant idea and I hope that you make the crafting more meaning full in Patheon and as less grindy as possible. I love creating things with have a worth but loath making 100 items of rubbish to get one or two amazing items that sucks. If you can refine what the guys did in Vanguard and combine a bit of EQII crafting ideas then we could be onto a winner.
Alaster said:All I know is, <3 SWG's crafting system.
I enjoy tradeskills when the system is designed well and it makes it interesting, rather than just repeatedly clicking one button over and over.
I have to agree. The Star Wars Galaxies crafting system was fantastic. I love to tradeskill when the systems are complex.
In majority of games I avoid tradeskilling, I do not enjoy it.
The only game where it was bearable to me was fable 3, Pie making with success rate reward multiplier :-D
Love me foods <3
In skyrim it was not that bad either
I'd love to work the materials on the bench or dummy directly ingame, as in fable III
Not with all the popup crafting windows.
Can't really remember an MMOrpg where crafting was enjoyable to me.
Lacks involvement in the crafting activity.It just is not engaging
The only MMO where crafting does not bother me is Starwars the old republic
Most likely because you can order your companions to do the crafting for you
Was amused tooby C-3PO apologizing when he failed to craft something.
About the only crafting moment to treasure in the course of all MMOrpgs I played <3
A collective crafting table where we could shape and design our own outfit together sounds pretty cool <3
I love tradeskilling. I find it to be a very relaxing passtime in games when I cant get a group or just dont want to deal with the drama sometimes associated with them. I also love seeing what new things I can create as a tradeskill advances, not the least of which because I hope to craft my own upgrades.
The tradeskills I gravitate toward usually rely heavily on the character pursuing them. My paladins always go with mining/smithing. My necromancers/casters usually go with tailoring or enchanting. My druid/shaman usually go with leatherworking or alchemy. If I have a dwarf I have to go with brewing. :) All that being said, I dont like having any character limited to a set of tradeskills. I'd much prefer that I be able to pursue as many as I like with every character.
Feyshtey said:I love tradeskilling. I find it to be a very relaxing passtime in games when I cant get a group or just dont want to deal with the drama sometimes associated with them. I also love seeing what new things I can create as a tradeskill advances, not the least of which because I hope to craft my own upgrades.
The tradeskills I gravitate toward usually rely heavily on the character pursuing them. My paladins always go with mining/smithing. My necromancers/casters usually go with tailoring or enchanting. My druid/shaman usually go with leatherworking or alchemy. If I have a dwarf I have to go with brewing. :) All that being said, I dont like having any character limited to a set of tradeskills. I'd much prefer that I be able to pursue as many as I like with every character.
I share many of these sentiments. I think tradeskilling can serve as an important part of an MMO if done right. It's relaxing and perfect for those down-times between going out and adventuring, and can help a player-driven economy thrive. I've always found it rewarding to craft my own upgrades as well if I'm able to, so, I tend to do the same thing: choose tradeskills that have the most harmony with my character.
I'm more ambivalent regarding tradeskill limitations, however, and can see the arguments for both sides. I'm fine with either system.
Tradeskilling is generally something I do when I reach max level since it tends to take up a lot of time. That said, WoW was the first game I went out of my way to level up tradeskills during the leveling process. I really enjoy the non-traditional or more off the wall ones, so I loved early WoW engineering and back in EQ I thought alchemy and tinkering were really cool/unique. Preferably the crafting is very interactive during the crafting process and not just some boring old click and item from a list and wait for the timer to finish.
Trade skills I like a lot, especially when theres plenty to pick from. Everything from Harvesting/Gathering skills to crafting skills.
I dislike how the Harvesting skills are typically handled with zero training needed or collection is node chasing, I prefer a system more like mining zones (Horizons) that fosters an environment that allows people to meet and make friends over wondering if the guy getting to your nodes is a bot. To me that just introduces an unpleasant grind that turns a fellow harvester/Miner into the enemy when your fighting for it.
I usually prefer Gathering Hides/Skins and blacksmithing depending on the game.
I'll only bother with tradeskills in this game if its easier than EQ. If it isn't then I won't bother. I'm not saying make it easier than EQ either. I just have other goals and can't be bothered to mess with that stuff. Instead I'll gather materials and sell them to crafters.
Elmberry said:I think WoW had maybe one of the most enjoyable tradeskill system. It's quite easy to get into. It doesn't take huge amount of time until you can do something useful compared to EQ or Vanguard.
I have to respectfully disagree. I'm hoping for a much more in depth and impactful system.
I enjoy tradeskills for the most part. My biggest gripe, like others here, is that they become obsolete too quickly. Well for most of the "gearing" ones anyway. Now a days I usually just by pass the ones that make gear and instead go for ones like cooking, enchanting, and even jewelcrafting as those keep their relevance a whole lot longer. Hopefully Pantheon can fix this problem. Beta will tell me what Trades I am planning on
Nikademis said:Elmberry said:I think WoW had maybe one of the most enjoyable tradeskill system. It's quite easy to get into. It doesn't take huge amount of time until you can do something useful compared to EQ or Vanguard.
I have to respectfully disagree. I'm hoping for a much more in depth and impactful system.
There is always a risk with a deep complex system, where it takes to much time to create items. It's a risk that it feels repetive and not so rewarding. I think I will probably not deal with any tradeskill in this game as I think they will go toward the more complex system. I think it's more fun to adventure and discover areas. :)
I see that this is a very old post, but I think that I can still manage to make you sorry that you asked. :p
I really like crafting. I don't necessarily mind tradeskilling. I don't mind gathering. I always look into it in any game I play, and I usually try to at least maximize one thing besides cooking, which I pretty much do in every single game, no matter what. It's just my thing.
Here are a few observations. Take them or leave them. I'm opinionated and garrulous, so I don't mind when sometimes people look at me with the old, "yeah, not going to read that." :p
These are my thoughts on crafting/ tradeskilling in games. I have a few good ones, if I say so myself (and I'm humble, too!).
I will dare to say that this is the real issue at hand with trades/ crafting... too often it is made to be equal in value to adventuring, but is never equal in cost (whether you consider cost time or coin). You cannot make it equal to adventuring without having some people then say that it is "necessary". How that quandary is to be solved has been a conundrum since... well... EQ.
I fear that ultimately, if you cannot solve that particular problem, you are stuck having to decide which "faction" you are going to leave waving their pitchforks.
Things like in-game maps or other useful, worthwhile items could be crafted. Again, though, you run the risk of peopel screaming bloody murder because they can't get a compass without those stupid crafters/ without crafting themselves.
There's really very little middle ground here, and sadly, one group or the other will feel shorted. You can make crafting an integral part of, say, home building. You can make crafting a central part of "ceremonial or decorative wear". You can make crafting for food a necessity (but then food should not be necessary in and of itself, or people will starve, lol).
My biggest point, I suppose, is that I really, really want crafting. I'll find it deeply disappointing if there isn't any at all. But I'd like to know ahead of time whether it will be 'for fun', nonexistent, or integral to any or all parts of gameplay. That will allow me to decide whether it is a "do it later" or a "do it now" decision.
TLDR; Pick your side and stick to it. You will not please everyone. :p
When I was raiding 6-7 days a week for upwards of 6-7 hours on some nights. I really didn't have time to do tradeskills. AA's were still very slow going at that time, so my main concern was always increasing my skills and abilities. As such, any time that I wasn't raiding, I would be grinding experience. And no, it's not because I felt like I "had to choose" between grinding, or doing something else... grinding was just more fun for me.
When I briefly went back to EQ around 2013-14, I joined a guild that raided 4 days a week for 3 hours a night, plus a few optional raids of older content. This left a lot more extra time and I dabbled in tradeskills. I got my cooking up to a reasonable level I think, but I never mastered anything. By that point though, crafting was kind of pointless, there really wasn't a lot of useful stuff to craft.
In Pantheon, I'm hoping to see a balanced emphasis on crafting useful equipment and/or items. I also hope that, if they only allow a character to master one trade skill (e.g. 255) that they at least allow you to get all other tradeskills to (100). I'd like to dabble in everything, see what's available, and then master something that would be useful to a majority of people without being just one of a hundred other of the same skill.