>Well the only option I see to get around that is making it so mobs don't aggro other players once engaged/pulled. I think it's worse to have dull mob AI that prevents the danger of trains (the need of awareness of others) in dungeons and just casually return to spawn regardless of seeing other people beating up their buddies or not. <
My argument has been (in other threads) that a mob pulled to me or my group should return to its spawn point if the puller releases aggro (as in dying or feigning death) if neither I nor anyone I am grouped with attacks it (or attacks any of its friend), heals the puller or anyone in the puller's group, or buffs the puller or anyone in the puller's group. In other words we are pure *neutrals* taking no side directly or indirectly in the dispute between the puller and his or her group and the mob and its group.
Mobs should not ignore anyone "beating up their buddies" as you correctly opine. But they also shouldn't be a tool to be used for griefing or pvp - at least not on a pve server.
Back on topic please. Enjoying the discussion on remorting.
Back on topic - good idea. Sorry.
The major concern I see in this thread at least is that high end raiders may feel it "required" to get to level-cap multiple times and start over at level one (either with the same character or a new one - just semantics unless I am missing something).
Required because they feel driven to wind up (after doing this the maximum time allowed by the game) with the strongest possible character. Or required by outside forces "Butt Bluffs raid at 19:00 server time - PST for invitation - must have remorted 11 times".
One way to avoid this is to give remort benefits (I know that isn't the name of the Pantheon system but I'm sticking to the thread title) that do not affect combat. Alternative appearance options, alternative race/class combinations where the extra combinations are cosmetic not of functional relevance, crafting or harvesting benefits, perception benefits that won't affect group selection of members etc.
Of course, the more useless a remort system is made the more it is simply wasted developer time that few players will even bother with. So I am not exactly saying that this is a *good* approach.
Assuming remort allows the creation of a stronger character - as it almost *has* to do to be relevant - yes after enough time has passed guilds or groups seeking the ultimate members for the hardest content may require it. That is the way of the world - we simply need to live with this. MMOs live and die by how well they can get players to grind and like it (at least like it enough to keep playing). Remort is a different way of grinding than doing dailies or weeklies or killing 10 million orcs for the orc slayer supreme deed. Personally I like it a lot more. And while I like it even if it means killing off a level-cap and starting over I think a lot of players will like it far more if it means keeping the level cap alive and well but regressing to level 1 for whatever benefits the system winds up giving.
I think only the high end guilds will be super strict on the "remort character only" policy. With that being said, if you are the type that wants to be in a high end guild, you're also going to be the person that wants to grind 24/7 to keep up. I think that formula will lead to high end guilds (and their potential members) really liking in-combat benefits from the progeny system VR is tinkering with.
I will not be a high end raider, but like the possibility of having a progeny even stronger than my current toon. Its a long term reward that would even interest a casual player as it creates incentive to start the journey over again once you reach the summit.
The only group of people that this hurts (IMO) are the semi-serious raiders that will find themselves falling behind those top-end guilds. But this is inevital anyways, regardless of any remort system.
The long and short of it is that this is a good idea so long as the benefits aren't game breaking, but a bonus should be given to create the proper incentive. I also like the non-combat beneift potential as well, even offering gear that can only be worn by progenies.
If progeny is to retire a toon from playability or to clear a character slot for another new toon, then I don’t think I’d progeny much since a toon would have other skills like crafting next to max or high level buffs that will become wasted. Which is a good thing since I'd have to buy more clients.
vjek said:Porygon said: VR is not dumb. They aren't going to make it something that breaks the game. Have faith.I had the same opinion until I saw the first video where they demo'd how to maliciously train your group with Feign Death, and there is every indication that ability will go to launch unchanged.
I think it depends on the commitment of customer service. In early EQ up until the populations REALLY started to dwindle. There was a strong GM presence in the game. I'll be curious to see how this is handled, I know they have said they would like the community to police themselves but surely there will be some for of GM presence.
randomrob82 said:I think only the high end guilds will be super strict on the "remort character only" policy. With that being said, if you are the type that wants to be in a high end guild, you're also going to be the person that wants to grind 24/7 to keep up. I think that formula will lead to high end guilds (and their potential members) really liking in-combat benefits from the progeny system VR is tinkering with.
I don't know about that. I think if progeny requires the sacrifice of a high level character then it will pretty much NEVER be a requirement because any content can be done without making use of the progeny system and the top end raid guilds won't want to sacrifice that time at the top contesting/learning/pushing the toughest content, especially if they need 50+ players to raid. Unless leveling can be done within a month or something.
I already pretty much described how i think it should work. Some "thing" that you can get at max level and translate to an alt. If you can get the "thing" by either gaining max level or by progeny then it won't break the game wide open, but will allow for those that previously completed the acheivement of max level to enjoy that bonus on an alt. This way it could be pretty much anything they want as long as its something that doesnt break open lower levels like some form of revive or something insane. I am thinking more along the lines of a permanent runspeed buff or stat modifier or class specific attribute skill modifier.
Talking along the lines of progeny warrior with a warrior mod. Simple enough when you ding max level you get the warrior mod either way. But maybe to progeny a cleric with a warrior mod would be more ideal and some high end raid guilds would be looking for those specifics later on, but in the beginning it would be basically players choice.
dorotea said:One way to avoid this is to give remort benefits (I know that isn't the name of the Pantheon system but I'm sticking to the thread title) that do not affect combat. Alternative appearance options, alternative race/class combinations where the extra combinations are cosmetic not of functional relevance, crafting or harvesting benefits, perception benefits that won't affect group selection of members etc.
Of course, the more useless a remort system is made the more it is simply wasted developer time that few players will even bother with. So I am not exactly saying that this is a *good* approach.
I actually like this idea, and strongly believe you are underestimating your fellow nerd's desires when it comes to individuality and bragging rights. If the "perks" gained were not functional but purely cosmetic, I bet all the plat in my pocket that plenty of people will be all over it. Enough to make it worth the developers time.
There is a huge niche out there for house-decorators, outfit collectors, character title collectors, etc. They're everywhere, and I would say this falls under the same category.
As long as those cosmetic perks are *unique* to the progeny (remort?) feature, people will chase them.
If I may be so bold as to offer an opinion - remort/progeny/etc, it seems to me, is the larger classificiation of "Horizontal Advancement." When EQ1 released AA, it was informally counting how many times you repeated level 51 (maybe 52?), and it offered slight, but noticeable upgrades in your character, like remort, progeny, etc.
Methinks the fine folks at VR will be offering some form of rewarding horizontal advancement.
Venjenz said:If I may be so bold as to offer an opinion - remort/progeny/etc, it seems to me, is the larger classificiation of "Horizontal Advancement." When EQ1 released AA, it was informally counting how many times you repeated level 51 (maybe 52?), and it offered slight, but noticeable upgrades in your character, like remort, progeny, etc.
Methinks the fine folks at VR will be offering some form of rewarding horizontal advancement.
They have mentioned aa's before and it will be a well planned and executed system and will come post release.
The cosmetic option for a remort bonus would be cool. Gives you a chance to be an ogre rogue or whatnot. And you don't have to worry about balanced gameplay.
kreed99 said:Venjenz said:If I may be so bold as to offer an opinion - remort/progeny/etc, it seems to me, is the larger classificiation of "Horizontal Advancement." When EQ1 released AA, it was informally counting how many times you repeated level 51 (maybe 52?), and it offered slight, but noticeable upgrades in your character, like remort, progeny, etc.
Methinks the fine folks at VR will be offering some form of rewarding horizontal advancement.
They have mentioned aa's before and it will be a well planned and executed system and will come post release.
The cosmetic option for a remort bonus would be cool. Gives you a chance to be an ogre rogue or whatnot. And you don't have to worry about balanced gameplay.
I'm thinking if AAs are to be expected then that system would have more influence on end-game play (high level raiding) than the Remort ability or Progeny system. Progeny sort of seems as though it adds more flavor (spice) and the AA system more substance (meat & potatoes). So to speak.