If you are all suggesting no tells/whispers by server wide, then I have to disagree with that. This feature is way too useful. Since I rarely read world/zone chat anyway, I could agree to having them removed although spammers in those don't annoy me as much as when they privately send a tell and quickly disconnect/switch toons...
Mekada said:If you are all suggesting no tells/whispers by server wide, then I have to disagree with that. This feature is way too useful. Since I rarely read world/zone chat anyway, I could agree to having them removed although spammers in those don't annoy me as much as when they privately send a tell and quickly disconnect/switch toons...
No, there would be /tells...that is a great feature. When we say server wide we mean like 1-9 chat or any of the level chats. Any chat that spans more than one zone with the exception of /guild /group /tell is what we are refering to. In the case of sending a personel tell then switching I hope pantheon makes it easy (click on name and hit ignore) to ignore a player and make ignore ACCOUNT wide...If I ignore one of your toons I ignore them all.
@Everyone-wanting-to-remove-global-chats
I thought this is meant to be a social game? Am I wrong in understanding that? Please explain how removing means of communcation sends the message "We are a social mmo.", I'll wait. There are many solutions to this problem, and most are pretty easy to implement.
@Sevens
Removing means of communication that many people use is not the solution you're looking for. Especially when your only argument is I have never understood server wide channels. Just because the concept and purpose escapes you doesn't mean they need to be removed.
@Medjai
Having the devs/gms/server censor people is never a good idea. If you are uncomfortable with people discussing those topics, block them or remove yourself from the channel they're discussing it in. Which will most likely be in a common/general titled chat channel. I rarely see people talk about anything other than LFG in LFG and Auction in Auction, for example. And usually if you do people call you out for it.
Just because you do not like something, doesn't mean you can try and censor/make it illegal. You're not the end all be all for morals/ethics/topics of discussion. If people want to discuss politics/religion let them. If they start attacking each other, that will most likely be against the EULA and they can get susspended/banned for that.
::Solutions::
1) Dev's implement a robust filter system. A very quick one I thought of would be a simple if/then filter that players can customize, disable/enable with check boxes as they wish.
If "MMO" in message AND "GOLD" in message AND "SELLING" in message AND ".COM" in message then
ignoreAccount(userWhoSentMessage)
doNotShowMeText(message)
end
2) Have an unlimited ignore list, that is saved server side.
3) Have ignore lists that are maintained by individuals that users can subscribe to (Think ad-block) that will automatically update when they maintainers update the list.
4) Have an option for Subscribers to completely disable any interaction from Non-subs.
4A) Allow for customization. (Maybe even set a time frame)
[] Block all interaction
[] Allow messages if I message them first
O Forever
O For 1 hour
O For 1 day
[] Allow trades if i trade them first
ETC
5) Make sure ignore and reporting is as user friendly as possible. Right click on user name --> Ignore/Report.
Those took 5 minutes to think up and write. If people stop trying to remove things and actually work together to come up with viable solutions I'm confident we can come up with a really amazing chat and filter system. That everyone is happy about. Granted it would take some extra work on the dev's end (unless they allow modding), but it would be worth it in my opinion.
CrAzD said:@Everyone-wanting-to-remove-global-chats
I thought this is meant to be a social game? Am I wrong in understanding that? Please explain how removing means of communcation sends the message "We are a social mmo.", I'll wait. There are many solutions to this problem, and most are pretty easy to implement.
@Sevens
Removing means of communication that many people use is not the solution you're looking for. Especially when your only argument is I have never understood server wide channels. Just because the concept and purpose escapes you doesn't mean they need to be removed.
@Medjai
Having the devs/gms/server censor people is never a good idea. If you are uncomfortable with people discussing those topics, block them or remove yourself from the channel they're discussing it in. Which will most likely be in a common/general titled chat channel. I rarely see people talk about anything other than LFG in LFG and Auction in Auction, for example. And usually if you do people call you out for it.
Just because you do not like something, doesn't mean you can try and censor/make it illegal. You're not the end all be all for morals/ethics/topics of discussion. If people want to discuss politics/religion let them. If they start attacking each other, that will most likely be against the EULA and they can get susspended/banned for that.
::Solutions::
1) Dev's implement a robust filter system. A very quick one I thought of would be a simple if/then filter that players can customize, disable/enable with check boxes as they wish.
If "MMO" in message AND "GOLD" in message AND "SELLING" in message AND ".COM" in message then
ignoreAccount(userWhoSentMessage)
doNotShowMeText(message)
end
2) Have an unlimited ignore list, that is saved server side.
3) Have ignore lists that are maintained by individuals that users can subscribe to (Think ad-block) that will automatically update when they maintainers update the list.
4) Have an option for Subscribers to completely disable any interaction from Non-subs.
4A) Allow for customization. (Maybe even set a time frame)
[] Block all interaction
[] Allow messages if I message them first
O Forever
O For 1 hour
O For 1 day
[] Allow trades if i trade them first
ETC
5) Make sure ignore and reporting is as user friendly as possible. Right click on user name --> Ignore/Report.
Those took 5 minutes to think up and write. If people stop trying to remove things and actually work together to come up with viable solutions I'm confident we can come up with a really amazing chat and filter system. That everyone is happy about. Granted it would take some extra work on the dev's end (unless they allow modding), but it would be worth it in my opinion.
Dont know where you get I dont understand them, I do...but they are not needed to make the game social. EQ was around a few years BEFORE any server wide chat channels were made and we managed just fine. The server wides are used for nothing more tha Trolls to spout filth or stupid stuff like how WoW was the first mmo and every game is a WoW clone, Gold sellers to spam their website and prices or people wanting to sell their items so they spam it in Server wide chat even though most games I have played that is actually against the rules. You still have /guild that is server wide, you have /group that is server wide and /tells that are too...but any public open chat channel besides those is restricted to your current zone.../zone /ooc or /say. If you want to LFG have a tool that will list your name class and level and then groups can sent you a /tell...or go to a level appropriate zone and to a /zone 20 Cleric LFG pst, I promise you that will work as I have used it for many years in EQ
EQ was the most "social" MMO I ever played, and its communication channels were zone-wide, not global. Like Sevens said, /tells, /group, /guild should provide the global communication that you seek. Turning the entire server into a 3d chat room has never been a good thing.
@Sevens "I have never ever understood the server wide zones"
It seems you are incapable of making any argument other than I don't like something so destroy it. I've been in EQ2 ALL day, not one troll in general/lfg/auction. If need be I'll turn my chat logging on and post an entire days worth of chat, as proof that you're wrong. You are not the end all be all for chat etique. Therefor you need to think outside of your box and find solutions that will work for people as a whole. Even if I'm not talking in general, I will read it if there's good conversation or game related discussions going on. I recommend you start thinking and keep your anti-social behavior to yourself. Just because YOU do not like general doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. Also /guild is meaningless, I only talk to my guild in voip. Sometimes I like to talk with strangers and people who think differently than I do. I know for someone people that's really difficult, maybe impossible even.
@Dullahan
I never played EQ until a few months back so I can't comment on what was at launch (20 years ago hardware and tech) and what is in the game now. I have recently picked EQ2 back up and I can tell you if it wasn't for general chat my chat would be dead, and that's being in a guild with a minimum of 15 people on at all hours.
@Both-of-you
I get spammed more from /tell than anything in every mmo I play. If the mmo allows it I usually just write my own plugin, or download someone elses, to combat that. If not I turn chat off and never read it. Both of you need to think outside the box.
CrAzD said:@Sevens "I have never ever understood the server wide zones"
It seems you are incapable of making any argument other than I don't like something so destroy it. I've been in EQ2 ALL day, not one troll in general/lfg/auction. If need be I'll turn my chat logging on and post an entire days worth of chat, as proof that you're wrong. You are not the end all be all for chat etique. Therefor you need to think outside of your box and find solutions that will work for people as a whole. Even if I'm not talking in general, I will read it if there's good conversation or game related discussions going on. I recommend you start thinking and keep your anti-social behavior to yourself. Just because YOU do not like general doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. Also /guild is meaningless, I only talk to my guild in voip. Sometimes I like to talk with strangers and people who think differently than I do. I know for someone people that's really difficult, maybe impossible even.
@Dullahan
I never played EQ until a few months back so I can't comment on what was at launch (20 years ago hardware and tech) and what is in the game now. I have recently picked EQ2 back up and I can tell you if it wasn't for general chat my chat would be dead, and that's being in a guild with a minimum of 15 people on at all hours.
@Both-of-you
I get spammed more from /tell than anything in every mmo I play. If the mmo allows it I usually just write my own plugin, or download someone elses, to combat that. If not I turn chat off and never read it. Both of you need to think outside the box.
If you don't undersand EQ, then you don't understand why people are saying what they are saying. EQ did not need server wide chat to be the single best chat application ever made. EQ2 being dead has nothing to do with this. Not having server wide chat could PROMOTE communication because now you have to reach out, find someone in that other zone and talk to them, make friends with other guilds, etc, etc. You're telling other people to not be narrow minded, perhaps take a dose of your own medicine?
CrAzD said:@Dullahan
I never played EQ until a few months back so I can't comment on what was at launch (20 years ago hardware and tech) and what is in the game now. I have recently picked EQ2 back up and I can tell you if it wasn't for general chat my chat would be dead, and that's being in a guild with a minimum of 15 people on at all hours.
EQ2 is a fundamentally different game than EQ. In EQ, even 2 expansions in, early zones were still populated for various reasons that did not exist in EQ2. The most important being that everything was more challenging, more multiplayer, and simply took longer. There was also a steady stream of new players and people creating new characters, because the leveling process was enjoyable enough to do again. They also gave incentives for players to return to zones (quests, rare spawns, etc), keeping a fairly healthy population spread throughout the world.
EQ2 was also less popular than EQ, which meant the playerbase on most servers was considerably smaller. To compensate for those issues, they had to allow things like global chat to give the appearance of a healthy population. That just would not have worked for dozens of EQ servers with 2000+ concurrent players.
All that said, I've played EQ2 twice, and the global chat was not something I would personally consider a feature. More often than not the discussions were entirely "out of character" and were often full of arguing and trolling. I don't need to see your logs to confirm this; I've seen it for myself. If there is still a server where things are more cordial, its an anomaly likely caused by a high concentration of the players most passionate about the game.
CrAzD said:@Sevens "I have never ever understood the server wide zones"
It seems you are incapable of making any argument other than I don't like something so destroy it. I've been in EQ2 ALL day, not one troll in general/lfg/auction. If need be I'll turn my chat logging on and post an entire days worth of chat, as proof that you're wrong. You are not the end all be all for chat etique. Therefor you need to think outside of your box and find solutions that will work for people as a whole. Even if I'm not talking in general, I will read it if there's good conversation or game related discussions going on. I recommend you start thinking and keep your anti-social behavior to yourself. Just because YOU do not like general doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. Also /guild is meaningless, I only talk to my guild in voip. Sometimes I like to talk with strangers and people who think differently than I do. I know for someone people that's really difficult, maybe impossible even.
@Dullahan
I never played EQ until a few months back so I can't comment on what was at launch (20 years ago hardware and tech) and what is in the game now. I have recently picked EQ2 back up and I can tell you if it wasn't for general chat my chat would be dead, and that's being in a guild with a minimum of 15 people on at all hours.
@Both-of-you
I get spammed more from /tell than anything in every mmo I play. If the mmo allows it I usually just write my own plugin, or download someone elses, to combat that. If not I turn chat off and never read it. Both of you need to think outside the box.
No we dont to think outside the box...just because YOU like world chat doesnt mean everyone else does. And who the hell do you think you are to tell me to keep my thinking to myself? This is an opinion forum and I will give mine and if it doesnt agree with yours thats your problem not mine.
One must use logic and past experience when solving things.
If there is no chat channel, there is no chat spam.
So like Everquest, certain chat channels are available to you, depending on where you are. A more robust system like that can easily be included in Pantheon.
So when u leave Cities and head out, you loose the ability to join or speak in those channels that are affiliated with that area. (/Auction for example in EC tunnel).
As for spam in an open channel..?
Server side filters, the ability to /ignor (or /quiet) someone and reporting of people who abuse, or do not use the right channels... is an easy and effective way to stop channel abuse.
@Sevens
You seem to have a reading comprehension defficiencty, might want to pick up hooked on phonics. I never once said for you to keep your opinion to yourself. What I did say is stop forcing your anti-social behavior on others and instead find a solution that works for the most people. You can't seem to get outside of your own little box, so I'm not going to respond to you unless you do from here on out.
@Hieromonk
If there are no cars there are no car wrecks. If there are no people there are no homicides. Your statement "If there is no chat channel, there is no chat spam." is irrelevant at best.
I don't think anyone is stating not having /city-you-are-in, /zone-you-are-in channels. It's more about a server wide /general/lfg/auction that people apparently have PTSD about. It's why I posted a few solutions I thought up in a few minutes. If people want to actually work together and come up with some viable solutions that we could forward the dev's I'm all for it. But several people here seem to be against it.
::EDIT, missed Dulahan's reply::
@Dullahan
It's pretty subjective what people consider useless/troll/spammy chat. I've always found EQ2 chat to be generally good. Which is most likely caused by the, usually, more mature player base. But I guess in my defence of server wide /general/etc I went off course a bit.
From what I can gather people seem to not want gold seller spam, who does? The real question is do we want to disable a ton of chat options or give people the tools to deal with it themselves. There's several in this thread so far that want the former, I'm trying to argue for the latter.
There's a lot of solutions we can come up with that makes everyone happy, without just saying remove people's abiltity to communicate because x/y/z reason.
If you re-read with a little more depth you will see the relevance of my solution.
One can not be bothered by chat channel spam, if that Channel doesn't exists. So having Chat channels means it is a privilege and great when you get to an area (in the game world) that allows them. And again... server-wide communications will not be possible, because see above.
Don't have to think about it. It worlks already in games. And again, there is no need to find a solution, as I just gave you the most proper one. Matter of fact, try and disprove, or vet my solution and you will see it works in all cases.
I'd also want to promote for at least one server wide chat channel, maybe dedicated to /lfg. I remember the early days of EQ2 where no server wide channel existed: you had to travel to one of the endgame zones and advertise. If no one was in that zone, then bad luck, travel to another zone. And rinse repeat. And I guess traveling then was super easy compared to what we'll probably see in Pantheon. I would somehow miss such a channel now, actually.
If server wide chat channels don't exist, do you think gold sellers would say, 'oh tough! I better go back to another game with a server wide chat channel'? They'd just rotate zones and still spam the whole day long.
One thing I'd really like to see, though: an account wide ignore. That'd be sweet...
Listen, it is a real simple solution.
That there are forms & mechnism that allow for regional & local chat channels. These emulate the "talk of the week" & "talk of the town" (regional & local sentiment). In EverQuest, if you are a necro, there is a global Necromancer channel. If you travel to another continent the regional channel changes, etc. When u get near Freeport, you get the EC and Auction channels... as you are entering a port and trade is common there. (ergo: no global channels)
Just need to expand on that, with some new flair and basic chat mechanics. Can be done at any time in development. Just look past the fact, that if global chat channels don't exist, then gold farmers can't broadcast globally.
I doubt the Players of Pantheon you will see much Gold Seller spam.. or it won't have as much visiability in Pantheon. The risk of loosing an account might be too great and farmers will box other more lucrative games. (one char per account, lvl 5 character can't use regional, or local channels, etc)
CrAzD said:::Solutions::
1) Dev's implement a robust filter system. A very quick one I thought of would be a simple if/then filter that players can customize, disable/enable with check boxes as they wish.
If "MMO" in message AND "GOLD" in message AND "SELLING" in message AND ".COM" in message then
ignoreAccount(userWhoSentMessage)
doNotShowMeText(message)
end
Cute.
Took me 30 sec to come up with a way around this, plus it looks way cooler message.
,--. ,--.,--. ,--. ,-----. ,----. ,-----. ,--. ,------.
| `.' || `.' |' .-. ' ' .-./ ' .-. '| | | .-. \
| |'.'| || |'.'| || | | | | | .---.| | | || | | | \ :
| | | || | | |' '-' ' ' '--' |' '-' '| '--.| '--' /
`--' `--'`--' `--' `-----' `------' `-----' `-----'`-------'
There just needs to be a report feature since all chat is logged sand saved anyways. If the system is a hurestic process and after a number of reports that player account is chat disable for a period of time for the channel the reports came from and an email is sent to the review GM team for action on the account and any firther chat messages from other accounts that match that string, will not be allowed to be sent.
Yep, so many solutions.
I already said, I believe in this new era, to have a premium MMORPG, (with active Game Masters & Guides), you are going to have to have a premium EULA (End User Licsense Agreement). That allows the GMs, guides & Visionary Realm... more athority over accounts & characters. So that hackers, cheaters and sellers can all be dealt with swfitly & justly.
Sometimes.. it is just fun to sit & fish off a bridge... ( echos premium.. )
Hieromonk said:Yep, so many solutions.
I already said, I believe in this new era, to have a premium MMORPG, (with active Game Masters & Guides), you are going to have to have a premium EULA (End User Licsense Agreement). That allows the GMs, guides & Visionary Realm... more athority over accounts & characters. So that hackers, cheaters and sellers can all be dealt with swfitly & justly.
Sometimes.. it is just fun to sit & fish off a bridge... ( echos premium.. )
Yeap I agree.
How many people are there going to be on a server? 20K people and any serverwide channel is unmanageable. And unimersive, I would add.
Even on my completely dead EQ2 server last year (before the latest merges) the serverwide chat channels were just douches "chatting" with each other.
Maybe providing some tools where players can customize and filter chat is the way to go. But my vote is against any serverwide channels.
I can't agree with the people who are against a global chat channel. In my game of choice (ffxi) it was as it was in everquest (in fact they NEVER added global channels) so I can agree global is not needed. Having said that I also do not see your reasoning as a good reason to remove it. The idea that global channels = gold sellers is false and I have an example for you, Final Fantasy 14. In 14 there also is no global chat and yet when the game came out it was gold spam city in every capital city as well as getting spam whispers (private messages, tells, whatever you like to call it) and even gold spammers sending you friend requests. Lack of a global chat doesn't stop spam and from my experience with that, it doesn't hinder it much either. I would be inclined to say go ahead and have a global and just let people who can't handle the spam or don't like the channel turn it off.
Duffy said:The problem with a server wide LFG channel is that it will become the default server chat channel, have a LFG tool that list your name, class and level then groups can send you a tell. Did it for a long time in EQ. And no I dont think that not having server wide channels will fix the problem, but it will keep them from having a server wide audiance. The more they have to work to go from zone to zone the more it will slow them down. I do agree with the account wide ignore, that would be sweetI'd also want to promote for at least one server wide chat channel, maybe dedicated to /lfg. I remember the early days of EQ2 where no server wide channel existed: you had to travel to one of the endgame zones and advertise. If no one was in that zone, then bad luck, travel to another zone. And rinse repeat. And I guess traveling then was super easy compared to what we'll probably see in Pantheon. I would somehow miss such a channel now, actually.
If server wide chat channels don't exist, do you think gold sellers would say, 'oh tough! I better go back to another game with a server wide chat channel'? They'd just rotate zones and still spam the whole day long.
One thing I'd really like to see, though: an account wide ignore. That'd be sweet...
The problem with a server wide LFG channel is that it will become the default server chat channel, have a LFG tool that list your name, class and level then groups can send you a tell. Did it for a long time in EQ. And no I dont think that not having server wide channels will fix the problem, but it will keep them from having a server wide audiance. The more they have to work to go from zone to zone the more it will slow them down. I do agree with the account wide ignore, that would be sweet
Yes. A tool, not a chat channel. And a manual tool, not an automated PoS like most games these days. I remember looking through the old EQ tool and having the group discussion about the available characters and who we thought was the best option. Man, I want those days to return!
