What does exploration mean to you in MMORPGs, do you consider it to be a fun sidebar or an integral part of the game?
Exploration is one of the main reasons I play games like this. The more places to explore the more immersed into the world I become.
Nothing ruins a game quicker for me then artificial boundaries like invisible zone walls that funnel the players in a liner direction through the game.
I actually experience more excitement finding little pieces of lore out in a completely out of the way deep off the beaten path location then getting gear upgrades.
Definitely integral for me but most of my exploring tends to be done solo.
What I think of when someone says "exploring" is going off in new directions, checking out new parts of the map where I've never been and given my level, probably shouldn't be anywhere near. Where does this river go? Mark this cave entrance in my notes to come back later with friends. What's over that ridge or behind that tree? Whoa! That's tree is chasing me!!
I guess I'm discounting crawling through new dungeons, but that tends to have a different experience or feel for me. When I'm in a group doing a crawl, we're usually methodically killing everything we meet and moving systematically and slowly, probing for traps, attempting puzzles and opening locked doors, trying new strategies for taking on bosses, etc...
Solo exploring is much less methodical and much more impulse driven whereas impulses in dungeon are what get you killed.
Velrak said:
Exploration is one of the main reasons I play games like this. The more places to explore the more immersed into the world I become.
Nothing ruins a game quicker for me then artificial boundaries like invisible zone walls that funnel the players in a liner direction through the game.
I actually experience more excitement finding little pieces of lore out in a completely out of the way deep off the beaten path location then getting gear upgrades.
Yeah, nicely said Velrak, it's important for many reasons, the sense of freedom is one of the biggest immersion factors in any MMORPGs in my opinion.
Celandor said:
Definitely integral for me but most of my exploring tends to be done solo.
What I think of when someone says "exploring" is going off in new directions, checking out new parts of the map where I've never been and given my level, probably shouldn't be anywhere near. Where does this river go? Mark this cave entrance in my notes to come back later with friends. What's over that ridge or behind that tree? Whoa! That's tree is chasing me!!
I guess I'm discounting crawling through new dungeons, but that tends to have a different experience or feel for me. When I'm in a group doing a crawl, we're usually methodically killing everything we meet and moving systematically and slowly, probing for traps, attempting puzzles and opening locked doors, trying new strategies for taking on bosses, etc...
Solo exploring is much less methodical and much more impulse driven whereas impulses in dungeon are what get you killed.
That is very true Celandor, sometimes I find myself exploring with a friend/guildy or two but most of the time I set out to explore and get lost all by myself :)
Exploring is integral to a game for me but I like it to be on my terms. For example, newer games lead you by the nose via a non stop train of boring quests. I like to just put on my backpack and start hoofing it through the woods and all the better if I need to be scared while doing so. I remember back in Everquest getting the new teleport to the other side of Kael Drakkel, i forget what the area was called but when I ported there and died almost instantly. That was maddening but at the same time very cool. A game needs that sense of fear to exist or it is trivialized. I also like to try to explore places I am not supposed to be. Like with my wood elf druid in Neriak where all the caster trainers were. Was funny me running back to the zone with a horde of them chasing me. All of these great memories due to exploration.
I love exploring new dungeons but I agree with Celandor it is a different experience.
Exploring, either it being solo and wandering thru zones, hoping to find those hidden gems. The attitude of playing pre kunark, where you got to see so many npc's that had a rare drop, but given current game models, you wouldn't even consider killing them. Fishbone earring from a barbarian fisherman? yes plz. After seeing those type of npc's, I ended up trying to find anything out of the way and killing them in a new expansion, hoping to discover the uber rare drops.
What I find really cool, are the dungeons that require you to commit to them - Kaesora is a great example, right at the entrance you have to decide if you want to take the plunge and jump down an elevator shaft... If you had never been there, it was a serious no guts no glory moment. Or the chardok dungeon, where respawns would make you have to keep pushing forward at a fast pace, always paranoid of those fast runner npc's patroling from either direction.
Give people a real death penalty to fear, and then no minimap to let them feel safe, and new content to be discovered - and you will have those EQ feelings/emotions brought out again.
Zaketh said:
Exploring is integral to a game for me but I like it to be on my terms. For example, newer games lead you by the nose via a non stop train of boring quests. I like to just put on my backpack and start hoofing it through the woods and all the better if I need to be scared while doing so. I remember back in Everquest getting the new teleport to the other side of Kael Drakkel, i forget what the area was called but when I ported there and died almost instantly. That was maddening but at the same time very cool. A game needs that sense of fear to exist or it is trivialized. I also like to try to explore places I am not supposed to be. Like with my wood elf druid in Neriak where all the caster trainers were. Was funny me running back to the zone with a horde of them chasing me. All of these great memories due to exploration.
I love exploring new dungeons but I agree with Celandor it is a different experience.
Yeah I am the same Zaketh, it's more fun for me that way, grab my gear, or what little of it I have, and set off into the unknown ;)
Lokkan said:
Exploring, either it being solo and wandering thru zones, hoping to find those hidden gems. The attitude of playing pre kunark, where you got to see so many npc's that had a rare drop, but given current game models, you wouldn't even consider killing them. Fishbone earring from a barbarian fisherman? yes plz. After seeing those type of npc's, I ended up trying to find anything out of the way and killing them in a new expansion, hoping to discover the uber rare drops.
What I find really cool, are the dungeons that require you to commit to them - Kaesora is a great example, right at the entrance you have to decide if you want to take the plunge and jump down an elevator shaft... If you had never been there, it was a serious no guts no glory moment. Or the chardok dungeon, where respawns would make you have to keep pushing forward at a fast pace, always paranoid of those fast runner npc's patroling from either direction.
Give people a real death penalty to fear, and then no minimap to let them feel safe, and new content to be discovered - and you will have those EQ feelings/emotions brought out again.
Yeah, absolutely Lokkan, I like that type of commitment dungeon too, once you enter that's it, you need to find another way out, one of those dungeons/caves every now and then is a refreshing change from being led around by sparkly quest markers!
Exploration is huge, especially back in the days before in-game maps. I feel like in new games, you get a quest, you look at the compass to point you in the right direction, and off you go with auto-run, blindly moving past any and all the immersive scenery and content between point A and point B. I realize that in-game maps are here to stay, but it would be nice to find ways to get that exploration feel back. I think good quest design can also encourage exploration. Maybe a bit oppressive, but if you want to 'force' exploration and lore on people, after people do exploration quests involving going all around an area and talking to NPCs to hear the lore, have the final NPC ask some questions that require the player to pick a correct response. Make it lore friendly by having an NPC say they are writing a book about the zone and want you to do research for them by exploring and talking to the locals, then come back and report it to them.
To me exploration is a state a mind... it implies the game world is alive and there are mysteries to discover.
A dangerous world will remain unexplored longer than a docile environment.
Some game mechanics promote exploration...
1) Locked areas only rogues can open.
2) Traps, Hidden rooms, Illusion walls, Multiple entrances and exits from dungeons.
3) Slippery paths that are bad news to fall off of...Like the icy pathways on the way to the kobolds in Velk's Lab.
4) Best loot comes from the deepest darkest depths.
5) No in game map ? Not sure what people would think about this one.
6) Non linear zones with multiple path of progression.
...and many more I'm sure
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
"1) Locked areas only rogues can open."
Things like this can really highlight distinctions between classes and make them feel unique but you also need to be careful of putting a group in a situation where they they have to sit around an hour looking for an LFG rogue before they can do something. I think rather than a locked area only 1 class can get to, better to make it a shortcut. For example, trying to get into a castle, a rogue can open a secret back door that lets the group skip 20 minutes of killing trash mobs, but a group lacking a rogue can do the same content by grinding their way through the front door.
I think it would also be important if they go down that road that each class is going to need that sort of 'bonus event' where their presence in a group provides a unique benefit for a certain encounter. For the rogue, it may be opening up some locked door in a dungeon, maybe a druid in another encounter causes it to rain which debuffs fire-based mobs, or a Warrior can break through a wall. For me in EQ1 as a wizard, being able to teleport people around made me feel that my class was unique and I think its great if every class has that one special thing that only they can bring to a group which will give that same feeling.
I think exploration is both integral and a peripheral experience, that's why it can have such an everlasting impact on us.
At the launch of a game there is so much to see and do. Players begin exploring both out of curiosity and necessity. But as the game ages and peoples' mains begin to progress toward end game, much of the world becomes "explored" (this is obviously a very relative term here. The fact that a world has been largely explored by the community doesn't mean it has been explored by each individual). Exploration becomes less a driving force but no less important. In many ways exploration and discovery become more visceral at this stage because finding something new in a largely explored world is an incredible feat.
There are still moments in EQ (and Vanguard during it's time) when I have been in a zone I'm familiar with, though not intimately, have dropped over a hill or around a corner and found something I had no idea existed. "Has this cave always been here?" "How have I never seen this staircase?" These are the moments when exploration truly leaves a lasting impression on me.
Gemdiver said:
Exploration is huge, especially back in the days before in-game maps. I feel like in new games, you get a quest, you look at the compass to point you in the right direction, and off you go with auto-run, blindly moving past any and all the immersive scenery and content between point A and point B. I realize that in-game maps are here to stay, but it would be nice to find ways to get that exploration feel back. I think good quest design can also encourage exploration. Maybe a bit oppressive, but if you want to 'force' exploration and lore on people, after people do exploration quests involving going all around an area and talking to NPCs to hear the lore, have the final NPC ask some questions that require the player to pick a correct response. Make it lore friendly by having an NPC say they are writing a book about the zone and want you to do research for them by exploring and talking to the locals, then come back and report it to them.
I do like this idea but fairly soon after people hit the content there would be a write up on the answers on a webpage somewhere.
Gemdiver said:
"1) Locked areas only rogues can open."
Things like this can really highlight distinctions between classes and make them feel unique but you also need to be careful of putting a group in a situation where they they have to sit around an hour looking for an LFG rogue before they can do something. I think rather than a locked area only 1 class can get to, better to make it a shortcut. For example, trying to get into a castle, a rogue can open a secret back door that lets the group skip 20 minutes of killing trash mobs, but a group lacking a rogue can do the same content by grinding their way through the front door.
I think it would also be important if they go down that road that each class is going to need that sort of 'bonus event' where their presence in a group provides a unique benefit for a certain encounter. For the rogue, it may be opening up some locked door in a dungeon, maybe a druid in another encounter causes it to rain which debuffs fire-based mobs, or a Warrior can break through a wall. For me in EQ1 as a wizard, being able to teleport people around made me feel that my class was unique and I think its great if every class has that one special thing that only they can bring to a group which will give that same feeling.
I agree with both of you here. I would make it so a rogue and a wizard for instance could unlock doors which would help alleviate that problem. But I would love to see a rogue do rogue type stuff as that is lacking in most games.
Exploration is really a big part of what made Vanguard and Everquest great. Huge worlds with so much to see that most people never see it all. I try really hard to go everywhere in games and both of these did not disappoint at all. I love it when there are active risks like the waterfall at Leth Nurae in Vanguard. I got in the aquaduct when i was a little elf and got washed down over the falls into the lake and loved it. That kind of stuff really adds life to a world as well.
Exploration means everything to me. There is no game (mmorpg-wise) which has held my attention like Everquest. To this day, I have not visited every zone, nor every part of every zone I've entered. I am playing the progression server now and doing things a little differently because I want to explore/play those parts I never paid much attention to 'back in the day'. It is still interesting to stroll (or run for my life) through visited EQ zones because they were put together by people who wanted to play the game.
In other games, I have flown, rode, and ran through all areas available and then become bored. The layout of the dungeons, including surface dungeons, was so lacking in imagination, thoughtful design, and the element of fear, I just didn't care to go through them again.
Zaketh said - "A game needs that sense of fear to exist or it is trivialized."
This is very important. In mature MMO's, fear equals fun. What fun would a rollercoaster be if it were one long, level, set of tracks?
Exploration is: "That, which goes along with". Exploration is: Misdirected whim (misdirection, in the magician sense i.e. "I thought I was going there, saw this, and ended up here!"). Exploration is: having a hunch, but not the way.
Kilsin said:
What does exploration mean to you in MMORPGs, do you consider it to be a fun sidebar or an integral part of the game?
I love exploring...specially coming upon a waterfall, that has a secret cave in the back, with possibly a floor puzzle that may open a hidden wall, and voila..some sort of minor treasure, like boots. :)
I tend to explore every nook and cranny in every game. Loved that spooky castle in Everquest two ..with all the clickable gravestones and such. I like hidden trap doors in floors (like in EQ) where you fall through..fight a mob, and get out to explore. I keep going til I hit that invisible wall you see in every game 'the end of the world"...which is usually just a barrier til the next expansion. :)
Exploring, foraging, crafting...those are my main interests along with sociability. :)
Cana
I've been in support of in game maps so far. But actually remembering earlier games, I think the most fun with exploration was in UO and early EQ where you didn't have any idea of the land. In both games you started in a safe area, and then it was up to you to go out and learn more about the world.
When I started playing EQ, my first character was an high elf mage, so I began in Felwhite. The first time I left the city to enter the greater Faydark. I didn't know the zone at all...so I just stood scared at the tunnel exit. Soon I discovered that there were paths leading away from the city. I began following them, always ready to run back to the guards if something bad happened! Eventually I made it to Kelethin, found the orc hill and other nice places. Good times! And then I discovered the zone entry to Lesser Faydark. About the first thing I saw after I zoned in was a huge spider. So terrifying! Iirc I ran back quite quickly that day :)
So this is what exploration has been for me in those first MMOs I played. I started out slowly and carefully from known places, then every time headed out a little further into the unknown. And it really was unknown, since there were no maps. I guess my stance towards maps has really changed, I now think that indeed Pantheon might be better off without ingame maps, except perhaps for some fix ones on the wall of a throne room, or on the desk in a military outpost.
For me, exploration is more than just taking in the sights or fighting my way into a place that I've never been. As others have said, its about discovery and unraveling the mysteries hidden in the game world. Maybe its finding a rare spawn or rare drop off a mob that doesn't look like a likely candidate (Hadden, as someone mentioned). Maybe it means understanding what triggers may cause some rare event, quest or mob to appear in an area. EQ was so full of those little oddities where strange yet cool things happened for seemingly no reason, but eventually you figure out how and why they occur. That's all part of exploration.
I hope not every inch of the game has some shiny 'participation trophy' hidden in the underbrush. It's an mmoRPG... roleplaying game... there is nothing wrong with a simple pretty landscape (as long as there is plenty of content in the game) to view. A mountain top view of the valley below without 'winning' anything is part of the allure, for me. If you want to hide a few kicking snakes in the underbrush or a cabin with a couple of npc's wandering around, that's fine too, but they don't have to hold quests, coins or whatever, do they? What's wrong with window dressings? :)