Iksar said:I'm having a hard enough time differentiating people on the forums now that half of them are using the same cultish avatar.
I would add a Discord tag or something, but won't change my avatar for a guild.
Tbh, aside from the sake of nostalgia, I don't really see a point in making you wait till level 20 or whatever to have a last name. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea. I just don't think "because that's how EQ did it" is a good enough reason in this case. It seems like it should be on character creation and you can just leave it blank if you don't want one (provided first names are unique). It doesn't make sense to me that someone would be born without a last name... and then after world-years of adventuring, they finally have the privilege of telling people their last name? I am in favor of earning titles, but earning your own second name just seems kinda strange to me. I'd love to hear from Brad what the design was for doing it that way in EQ1. Because it seems very intentional, like there's some reason. I just don't know what that reason is.
I think someone may have mentioned it already, but in case no one has, a major reason I like unique first names is, if possible in Pantheon, the ability to turn of most of the text above a characters head. The ideal situation for me is only one name and perhaps guild name :)
-sorte.
I prefer the depth of the possibility of having 20 Michaels running around with different last names. Hell, 3 out 20 people at work are 'Michael'. I can't think of any game changing reason not to do it that way. I understand the points people brought up in the previous post and agree that it would require extra effort in a few ways. In my mind I'm asking what I would rather deal with....Michael Smith, Michael Johnson, Michael Ninnyscamp or Michael Smith, Micheal Johnson, and Michaell Ninnyscamp? And..../who Mic = a list to click from hopefully.
But to follow your example of 3 Michaels running around at work IRL, you will also have many people IRL with the same first AND last name. Michael Smith, Michael Smith and Michael Smith. Theres tons of people running around with the same names, so using the argument that many people have the same first name IRL against unique first names, is not really working. Because then someone could argue that same first and second names is ok too.
Now i'm good with whatever rules Pantheon has, I just like it best when first names are unique and I can avoid to much text.
(I mean all of this in the most friendly way possible. English is not my first language, if I offend I apologize)
-sorte.
Sorte said:But to follow your example of 3 Michaels running around at work IRL, you will also have many people IRL with the same first AND last name. Michael Smith, Michael Smith and Michael Smith. Theres tons of people running around with the same names, so using the argument that many people have the same first name IRL against unique first names, is not really working. Because then someone could argue that same first and second names is ok too.
Again, it's a matter of Realism vs. Practicality. In the real world, there's no way to avoid multiple names. And it's often annoying. So then in a world where it is avoidable (because VR can control it), should we make it less annoying (practicality) or try to make it like the real world so that the game feels more alive (realism). Although I suppose there are also two sides of the practicality argument. There are people that would find it annoying to have to come up with a new name if their favorite name or the name they associate with the online identity is taken, and there are people that would find it annoying to have to look through a list of names to find the right person to send a particular tell to. I would argue that there would be MORE situations in which people would be annoyed by multiple names than unique ones. Most people are not incredibly attached to a particular name. And even less people who have a particular name that's already taken. But if they are attached to a name and can't get it, chances are they'll get used to it eventually. But having to keep track of multiple names is something that affects every player, every day. And for that reason, in my opinion, having unique names is less of a burden, less often.
Bazgrim said:Sorte said:But to follow your example of 3 Michaels running around at work IRL, you will also have many people IRL with the same first AND last name. Michael Smith, Michael Smith and Michael Smith. Theres tons of people running around with the same names, so using the argument that many people have the same first name IRL against unique first names, is not really working. Because then someone could argue that same first and second names is ok too.
Again, it's a matter of Realism vs. Practicality. In the real world, there's no way to avoid multiple names. And it's often annoying. So then in a world where it is avoidable (because VR can control it), should we make it less annoying (practicality) or try to make it like the real world so that the game feels more alive (realism). Although I suppose there are also two sides of the practicality argument. There are people that would find it annoying to have to come up with a new name if their favorite name or the name they associate with the online identity is taken, and there are people that would find it annoying to have to look through a list of names to find the right person to send a particular tell to. I would argue that there would be MORE situations in which people would be annoyed by multiple names than unique ones. Most people are not incredibly attached to a particular name. And even less people who have a particular name that's already taken. But if they are attached to a name and can't get it, chances are they'll get used to it eventually. But having to keep track of multiple names is something that affects every player, every day. And for that reason, in my opinion, having unique names is less of a burden, less often.
I agree with both points and it is a balance like everything else. A unique last name would solve the problem of having 3 Michael Smiths running around and as long as the last name is account wide, should work well with their Progeny system. Also, I think being further split up into Michael Smith the shaman or Michael Smith the cleric and Michael Smith the Archai shaman or Michael Smith the Dward cleric, there is enough versatility to alleviate some of the annoyance you speak of. And, it will further be split with friends lists and guilds. There may be 3 Michaels, but likely not all three will be on your friends list or in guild.
I guess it is simply an individual preferance and VR will do what works best with their system and what the majority of what players will want. My preferance is non-unique first name/unique last name, and either way I'll see you two in game. 8-)
Bazgrim said:Again, it's a matter of Realism vs. Practicality. In the real world, there's no way to avoid multiple names. And it's often annoying. So then in a world where it is avoidable (because VR can control it), should we make it less annoying (practicality) or try to make it like the real world so that the game feels more alive (realism). Although I suppose there are also two sides of the practicality argument. There are people that would find it annoying to have to come up with a new name if their favorite name or the name they associate with the online identity is taken, and there are people that would find it annoying to have to look through a list of names to find the right person to send a particular tell to. I would argue that there would be MORE situations in which people would be annoyed by multiple names than unique ones. Most people are not incredibly attached to a particular name. And even less people who have a particular name that's already taken. But if they are attached to a name and can't get it, chances are they'll get used to it eventually. But having to keep track of multiple names is something that affects every player, every day. And for that reason, in my opinion, having unique names is less of a burden, less often.
I can barely remember to call Dave, Dave... and David, David at work so we can tell who I'm talking to our about. Then, there's remembering names at all... and that's people I can see in front of my face and maybe recognize.
When Dave, Dave, David, and David start talking to me, I guarantee it'll be... "Wait, which Dave, David, or Davey are you again? How do I know you??"
That's because it's already like that in real life--assuming I remember their name at all. In this case, it's not like I'll even have the visual cue of their individual appearance. Just a name on the screen of Mike, Mike, out Michael sending me a message. And it might not be one of the 50 Mikes I know!
Too complicated and annoying, lol.
I've seen games wih unique first names where surnames could duplicate - games with unique last names where first names could duplicate, and games where either could duplicate and only the full name was unique.
I am not convinced that if your friend is named (in-game) Galadriel Goldenhair that seeing a message from a Galadriel Dawnsinger is that much more confusing than seeing a message from an Elowyn Goldenhair. In most real world cultures we are conditioned to understand that first names duplicate endlessly but identical surnames are often (not always) an indicator of some relationship. In a game where only surnames are unique we would rapidly learn to adjust to this reality, remember our friends' last names, and notice both names when we saw a message not just look at the first name. If any of us play games like FFXIV or Black Desert where first names aren't unique - have you noticed any greater confusion (at least after some time to get used to the system) than in more tradional first name unique games?
I agree that the idea is jarring to many of us. Most of us grew up (in the MUD and MMO sense) in games with identical first names and played them for so many years that anything else just feels ....wrong. Maybe even ....evil.
In forming our individual opinions let us keep in mind that the number of people here isn't enormous, and obviously no names have been taken yet though the developers may reserve some for themselves and put others off limits for various reasons. Those of us who can reserve names will have a far better (but not 100%) chance of getting a favorite name than if boredom sent us to a game where people have been taking names for years or decades. So a system of unique first names, while not logically compelling to me, has the advantage of familiarity while the disadvantage of a limited set of available names is minimized for those of us pre-reserving names. In other words - we paid for a perk and will get the perk to the nine hells with people that come later!
If you noticed I am arguing both sides and not giving a firm opinion that is because there are good arguments either way and I can live with any decison the team makes.
My real interest in this topic is what will a players nameplate look like in game. Take this as an example:
Sorte Pantheondragonslayer
Slayer of Everquest Mounts
[Eternal Seekers of Death and Destruction]
What I really would like is to be able to turn text off. Being able to turn of titles and guild names is quite common, but if the game uses unique first and last names I will still have Sorte Pantheondragonslayer taking up my screen as opposed to just Sorte. Turning off surnames in a game where first names are not unique brings us back to Michael, Michael and Michael and therefore seems silly. Same argument goes for turning off first names, as surnames are not unique. In a game where it's the surname thats unique and you have the ability to turn off first names, I'd be happy to.
I really don't want my screen to drown in names, I'd much rather be able to enjoy the beautiful game world. Now one can argue that I can just turn ALL names off, but that would be kinda sad I think.
-sorte.