justdrop said:You call insult me personally all you want, I'm being realistic about it.
So, your point is being 'realistic', but mine is 'insulting'. But you say you're the one being 'realistic'. My points are just as realistic and valid as yours dude. Don't try that nonsense with me.
It's been nearly a decade since many such as my self pledged a donation. So I can see how some have become skeptical. But from what I'm seeing from youtube videos regarding the current build of the game, it appears to be moving along smoothly now. I'm honestly surprised that the main website is not showcasing these videos more aggressively, to show that people's hard-earned pledges are amounting to a product which could become incredibly influential and enjoyable.
Dikenzu said:justdrop said:You call insult me personally all you want, I'm being realistic about it.
So, your point is being 'realistic', but mine is 'insulting'. But you say you're the one being 'realistic'. My points are just as realistic and valid as yours dude. Don't try that nonsense with me.
I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference.
Farrinard said:It's been nearly a decade since many such as my self pledged a donation. So I can see how some have become skeptical. But from what I'm seeing from youtube videos regarding the current build of the game, it appears to be moving along smoothly now. I'm honestly surprised that the main website is not showcasing these videos more aggressively, to show that people's hard-earned pledges are amounting to a product which could become incredibly influential and enjoyable.
The reason people aren't excited is because it's either rehash of the same discussion about rogue or discussion about monk rework and has been for over a year. We got about one or two shows of cleric and warrior and one about the knights, woohoo. They've been reworking summoner for what, a year now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o1-KsVOTGA
You mean videos like this? I couldn't find anything like this on the offical Pantheon website. It's a 2 hour video showcasing the starting area along with a few classes in real player combat.
"I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference."
Like I said, stop playing these stupid semantic games with me dude. My 'IDEAS' gave valid context and meaning to the history of Pantheon's game development. You calling someone's 'IDEAS' excuses was reductive and dismissive, thus insulting.
Dikenzu said:"I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference."
Like I said, stop playing these stupid semantic games with me dude. My 'IDEAS' gave valid context and meaning to the history of Pantheon's game development. You calling someone's 'IDEAS' excuses was reductive and dismissive, thus insulting.
Ah yes, the old "no u" routine. I think the excuses you made for the game are ridiculous. I do not think you are. As it is, there's enough insight for me to lose faith and you not to.
justdrop said:Dikenzu said:"I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference."
Like I said, stop playing these stupid semantic games with me dude. My 'IDEAS' gave valid context and meaning to the history of Pantheon's game development. You calling someone's 'IDEAS' excuses was reductive and dismissive, thus insulting.
Ah yes, the old "no u" routine. I think the excuses you made for the game are ridiculous. I do not think you are. As it is, there's enough insight for me to lose faith and you not to.
Well then since you still playing these games. I think your comments are negative and unfairly skeptical. I do not think YOU are.
Also, why is someone here if they have 'lost faith' in the game....serious question.
Dikenzu said:justdrop said:Dikenzu said:"I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference."
Like I said, stop playing these stupid semantic games with me dude. My 'IDEAS' gave valid context and meaning to the history of Pantheon's game development. You calling someone's 'IDEAS' excuses was reductive and dismissive, thus insulting.
Ah yes, the old "no u" routine. I think the excuses you made for the game are ridiculous. I do not think you are. As it is, there's enough insight for me to lose faith and you not to.
Well then since you still playing these games. I think your comments are negative and unfairly skeptical. I do not think YOU are.
Also, why is someone here if they have 'lost faith' in the game....serious question.
I spent money on the game, same as everyone else.
I have been following Pantheon since the Kickstarter and have been really enjoying the ride for what it is. The devs have shown me so much about what it takes to build a MMO it almost felt like I took a class.
I agree with an earlier statement that no one can say for sure the game will release or not but the devs have convinced me that they are dedicated, hardworking, and passionate. This has convinced me it will release.
I am always looking at other games. If a new game was announced that looked interesting, I would be checking it out and maybe even dropping Pantheon. But I have yet to find one. This is likely due to the fact that Pantheon unlike many other MMOS is focusing on PVE first. This is as far as I am aware very rare.
Based on the type of games people make these days Pantheon will be relevant to me even years from now.
justdrop said:Dikenzu said:justdrop said:Dikenzu said:"I critiqued the idea. You critiqued the person. That's the difference."
Like I said, stop playing these stupid semantic games with me dude. My 'IDEAS' gave valid context and meaning to the history of Pantheon's game development. You calling someone's 'IDEAS' excuses was reductive and dismissive, thus insulting.
Ah yes, the old "no u" routine. I think the excuses you made for the game are ridiculous. I do not think you are. As it is, there's enough insight for me to lose faith and you not to.
Well then since you still playing these games. I think your comments are negative and unfairly skeptical. I do not think YOU are.
Also, why is someone here if they have 'lost faith' in the game....serious question.
I spent money on the game, same as everyone else.
See, that's what's always been the odd thing to me about folks who say things like that.
I spent hundreds(thousands?) of dollars on WoW(my favorite MMO of all time despite me not playing it anymore). I have lost faith in that game. BUT, I'm not on the forums, Discord, social media etc. like the thousands of folks who(feel the same) are there trashing the game.
I'm not there evangelizing my 'lost faith' and looking to sarcastically, subliminally, and cleverly attack any positive comment said about the game...like I have witnessed so many do here. I'm not even there giving harsh constructive criticism(which, I think still implies having SOME faith and also shows I can appreciate sincere criticism).
I say my piece and keep it moving if someone asks me about WoW...but I don't dwell on it.
I'm HERE enjoying Pantheon. A game I do believe in and having a, mostly, satisfying time following the development of...something I still(after all these years) find fascinating. I don't understand why folks like torturing themselves with a project they really don't believe in, of their own free will and time, when they could be enjoying one or many of the dozens of other games they actually LIKE.
Of course folks have the right to do what they want. But choosing to be here(or anywhere like this) when you only see negative is baffling to me.
Onward and upward...Thats what I was trying to remember. This games going to be so great! Im looking forward to it comeing out like I was looking forward to Everquest coming out. They have a shoe string budget so its has taken a long time..and its going to take a lot more time.. but thats ok..
Thing is we all know:
It's taken ages to get where we are
We all want to play it
We want it to be successful
We all know the current state of the game
Some are sceptical, some are hopeful
We all have our own opinions
Sooner or later, we all have to accept we do not all see eye to eye. Opinions are exactly that, opinions. Trying to say one opinion is right and another is wrong is futile and just gets peoples backs up. Pointing out when facts are wrong is one thing, saying someone is wrong about how they feel is another, entirely.
Personally, my own opinion is that the game will be released and it will be successful and it will have a long and happy life. What is that based on? Nothing! Its my opinion. I have managed to play an hour or two though and I was gripped from the first moments in game. I can see what the game is going to be and it will be great.
Yes it is a long way from completion, but every day it gets closer.
Onward and upward.
Releasing in some form and releasing with the vision in mind are two very different prospects. I fully believe Pantheon will be released some day.
I sadly doubt it will be the full vision of Pantheon. If we had 100 more full time workers doing world building then the dream could happen but I imagine we will end up released into a quiet / largely empty world with mainly combat and crafting as the things to do. I hope I am wrong.
The devs make monthly updates which is great but we are how many years into development? That tells us all we need to know. If you acknowledge that and doesnt cause you frustration then more power to you. Keep the faith. For the rest of us its time to accept what we already know to be true and surrender any and all expectations so we can move on from the disappointment.
I started to check in with the game again earlier this year and was pleased to see more engagement from the devs with the producer letters/videos. I thought with the Discord being created that maybe the game was ready to move into a new phase but nothing like that happened. Absolutely nothing to warrant a discord because there is nothing new to talk about. But here we are in August with nothing showing us here that this project has coalesced from a concept or vision into anything resembling a functioning game. I hope I am proven wrong but I hate coming here hoping to see something real only to be disappointed every time. So until I see news on a gaming news site that it has moved into Beta I'm moving on. Hopefully we all meet again in the not too distant future.
Yes its been a long time.
Yes it is still not released, but it is getting there.
We all have a gripe at VR now and then, and it is good to do so (keeps VR on their toes), but you are either willing to wait or not. Me? I am waiting. I have had a taste and want more.
Hypnos said:The devs make monthly updates which is great but we are how many years into development? That tells us all we need to know. If you acknowledge that and doesnt cause you frustration then more power to you. Keep the faith. For the rest of us its time to accept what we already know to be true and surrender any and all expectations so we can move on from the disappointment.
I started to check in with the game again earlier this year and was pleased to see more engagement from the devs with the producer letters/videos. I thought with the Discord being created that maybe the game was ready to move into a new phase but nothing like that happened. Absolutely nothing to warrant a discord because there is nothing new to talk about. But here we are in August with nothing showing us here that this project has coalesced from a concept or vision into anything resembling a functioning game. I hope I am proven wrong but I hate coming here hoping to see something real only to be disappointed every time. So until I see news on a gaming news site that it has moved into Beta I'm moving on. Hopefully we all meet again in the not too distant future.
How many years the game has been in development means NOTHING without context. So, all this talk about it being "everything we need to know" makes no sense to me ...at all. Superfical copmments like this is why I can't take most of the Pantheon 'criticism' seriously. There are folks commenting in the Ashes of Creation social media that the game will never come out becasue it's taking so long. What does that, "taking too long", even mean? Folks are just throwing words out like it supposed to make sense when it really doesn't. Your(collective) impatience does not equal reality. Ashes is on it's 7th year of development with a staff of close to 140-50 and 30-50 million for development. I'm just casually watching it's development(not even like the diehard Ashes fans) and I can discern why it's taking them the time they have to make that game.
Context and discerment matter MOST when discussing a game's development, NOT time spent developing a game.
Because we are part of the development from the start folks think they are being fair in using that as a talking point when Elder scrolls online took 7 years with a staff of hundreds and over a hundred million in development funds. Diablo 3 took 11 years with backing from a major studio. I'm sure those who were wanting Diablo 3 would've lost their minds and had to be committed if that game was crowdfunded. We know next to nothing about the development process of most of our favorite games we played loved over the years. The mismanagement, pitfalls, firings, quittings, refactors and all the things we are privy to with crowdfunded games. Yet, we act like those games were made with perfection.
Context matters and folks only seeing this from their personal point of view and not looking at it in fair and balanced way are making too many disingenuous comments.
Also, VR made an announcement months ago that they were not going to be showing much about Pantheon until September/October. Again, I can't take folks seriously who just pop in and make superficial comments and rants. VR is also operating with a small team and budget for an MMO of this scope. They could've had lots of money and everything they wanted had they 'sold out' their vision of the game for greedy Publishers, but they have not. NONE of those FACTS are taken into consideration when folks discuss Pantheon's development. I'm thinking some of you may even welcome them selling out so you can get the game sooner. Then others would attack them relentlessly for selling out.
Yes, I acknowledge that it's frustrating, but I remind myself of everything about Pantheon and how we got here and not just react to my 'feelings' when I look at this game. Despite the frustrations, I still believe in this game and I'm still fascinated by the history of it's development. There is NOTHING(gaming wise) else out there that interests me on the level Pantheon does...nothing.
I don't think I've looked at this game since Brad died, maybe a video once or twice but I can't believe it's been 4+ years since then. I was beyond stoked for this game. This is the first thread I've read and it made me depressed....
Then I looked at a video on YT someone linked about the monk from 8 months ago. Holy **** I'm stoked again. This game looks amazing. I dgaf if it takes another 4 years before it comes out, it LOOKS LIKE EQ. Take all the time you guys need.
Anything to bring me back to that sweet sweet EQ.
I'll be back in 2027, hope its in beta by then :)
I am by no means a fanboi of any product or service, I actually dislike people who are, however they have completely changed engines and are coding for that. They are open and honest with their development, giving clear steps as to what has been accompished in a given month. I would of said this was Vaporware 2 years ago (which I thought) but they are honestly giving it a solid effort, and I'm happy with their milestones thus far. I have faith this game will launch, but I think it'll be realiscally 2 or 3 more years. It's almost like they started over from scratch(which is what they did) and MMO'S take time. Thankfully they already have a clear path on what they wanted for game systems and that'll shave time off.
I was a Vanguard player, I actually loved it, despite it's many glichtes. That open world, those massive zones, the outside dungeon crawling and needing a group, they were EPIC to me. Sailing a boat from continent to continent was PEAK. this game can be all of this plus more, but they need more time, and more funds. I really think this game is gonna change the MMORPG market, we just need to give them a little time, and hopefully a big investor or publisher comes along with the same ideals.
If they keep taking more time, it ends up costing more money.
How long has it been? How much money is left?
Can they produce a finished game with the money they've gotten?
In order to keep people employed for decades on a game in development, they need to keep getting injections of cash.
When was the last big cash injection? They can keep puttering along for only so long before no one in their right mind will give them cash.
How much time to they have left before interest is lost completely? How long before there isn't any cash to continue?
I've been watching this for almost a decade now, and it still hasn't moved from a basic shell of a game. After a decade of development, shouldn't they be much farther along?
Eyae said:Is this game ever going to be released? I'm not bashing or hating, I know I will receive that in the replies... and I also know my question is redundant and been asked a million times already... but honestly, will it?
The answer to this is, "no". I've been a fanboi and monitoring this forum for nearly 8 years or so, since I pledged $350 for some potentially undelivered offering. I have no hard feelings. My pledge was entirely worth hope that I'd ever have a shot at a modern'ish Everquest type MMO. It's simply not happening, but the pledge was worth it for me having some hope for a few years until that died years ago. When McQuaid passed away, that was the nail in the coffin for me.