I think it's too early to tell if they will have a hybrid server. But I also am of the same mindset of liking both simultaneously.
Do you have any particular PVP preference in mind? World PVP or Instanced PVP? I think most of the people that hate on PVP are thinking about World PVP because it can ruin their day.
There are more than a few threads that have discussed this, and the replies from VR have been pretty consistent. This one is from barely a month ago:
Kilsin said: it is very unlikely that we will split the community up into different ruleset servers other than PvE and PvP (and possibly RP). Our game is being built following our tenets and they will dictate the rules that we want our game to follow.
If VR ever decides to mix both aspects of combat and off combat into one server. They could do it with a given option to opt in or out of PvP like in World of Warcraft.
I'm mostly a PvE player but I wouldn't mind delving into combat to show off my skills. It keeps it fun and yet relaxed.
BigBadAzz1 said:If VR ever decides to mix both aspects of combat and off combat into one server. They could do it with a given option to opt in or out of PvP like in World of Warcraft.
I'm mostly a PvE player but I wouldn't mind delving into combat to show off my skills. It keeps it fun and yet relaxed.
This makes zero sense. PVP servers will have PvE. It's not either / or. If you want PvP you play on a PvP server where both happen.
If you don't want PvP, like me, you stay off the PvP servers and stick to the normal PvE only servers.
I do NOT want to be involved with any server where PvP is an option. Period. Even if it's completely optional. No.
PvP can go F it'self entirely. (not the players, the entire concept).
And if that's what you mean by "fracture" then I demand a fractured community or no PvP at all.
/shrug
Jiub said:I think it's too early to tell if they will have a hybrid server. But I also am of the same mindset of liking both simultaneously.
Do you have any particular PVP preference in mind? World PVP or Instanced PVP? I think most of the people that hate on PVP are thinking about World PVP because it can ruin their day.
I was referring to World PVP, but you bring up a good point. I think Instanced PVP is totally compatible on a PVE server because the player chooses to participate. I actually like both world and instanced, but I totally understand people's frustrations with world pvp.
kellindil said:/This makes zero sense. PVP servers will have PvE. It's not either / or. If you want PvP you play on a PvP server where both happen.
If you don't want PvP, like me, you stay off the PvP servers and stick to the normal PvE only servers.
I do NOT want to be involved with any server where PvP is an option. Period. Even if it's completely optional. No.
PvP can go F it'self entirely. (not the players, the entire concept).
And if that's what you mean by "fracture" then I demand a fractured community or no PvP at all.
/shrug
Gotcha, in that case I would join a PVP server since it would contain both concepts. Do you think that voluntary instanced PVP is a problem to a PVE server? If so why?
Cyphonus said:I was referring to World PVP, but you bring up a good point. I think Instanced PVP is totally compatible on a PVE server because the player chooses to participate. I actually like both world and instanced, but I totally understand people's frustrations with world pvp.
I'm pretty sure VR is going to be charitable to PVP since a few of the devs personally enjoy it. Joppa even mentioned in a recent inteview that they are for special-ruleset servers. So
I think kellindil is correct that the PVP server will be the sort of hybrid between the two which you are seeking, which is the one I'll probably be joining as well.
Cyphonus said: Do you think that voluntary instanced PVP is a problem to a PVE server? If so why?
The TL:DR answer is that adjusting and balancing Classes and their Abilities happen server-wide. So you can't make any efforts to improve the gameplay of PvP without affecting the PvE on that server, and vice versa.
Here is what Brad said about this in 2015:
Aradune said: We could simply turn PvP on .., but it uses all of the rules and mechanics designed for PvE. *When* we do PvP, we want to do it right, which means a different set of mechanics and formulae to make sure we can balance PvP without messing up PvE and vice versa.
You can read the thread that this quote came from - including VR's concerns about mixing PvP and PvE in the same game and on the same server - here:
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1717/pvp-servers/view/post_id/20843
The one change to note is that VR has committed to having at least one, seperate PvP server open at release. They have indicated that it will most likely be open world. They have not promised to have it 'balanced' for PvP, so it might well just be the same game with PvP turned on. But it will be a start.
Jothany said:Jiub said: Joppa even mentioned in a recent inteview that they are for special-ruleset servers.Could you direct me to that interview please? Either a link or just the date and general source so I can find it myself.
Thanks.
https://youtu.be/w3v54a1uMoE?t=2640
Np
Jothany said:Cyphonus said: Do you think that voluntary instanced PVP is a problem to a PVE server? If so why?The TL:DR answer is that adjusting and balancing Classes and their Abilities happen server-wide. So you can't make any efforts to improve the gameplay of PvP without affecting the PvE on that server, and vice versa.
Here is what Brad said about this in 2015:
Aradune said: We could simply turn PvP on .., but it uses all of the rules and mechanics designed for PvE. *When* we do PvP, we want to do it right, which means a different set of mechanics and formulae to make sure we can balance PvP without messing up PvE and vice versa.You can read the thread that this quote came from - including VR's concerns about mixing PvP and PvE in the same game and on the same server - here:
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1717/pvp-servers/view/post_id/20843
The one change to note is that VR has committed to having at least one, seperate PvP server open at release. They have indicated that it will most likely be open world. They have not promised to have it 'balanced' for PvP, so it might well just be the same game with PvP turned on. But it will be a start.
Thanks for the resources/links. I understand the dilemna of adusting PvE will effect PVP and vice versa .... but I think there is a solution for this dilemna. In Star Wars the Old Republic there is something called the "Bolster system" whenever you enter a PVP zone, and if you are below a certain rating, it "bolsters" your stats to level the playing field.
So Pantheon could do something similar to a bolster system, where they can make any changes they want to PvE, allow it to affect PvP, but make up for the difference via the "bolster system". This allows them to artificially change the difference without creating new kinds of gear, and the system is only triggered upon entering a PVP zone.
I suggest you read all Kilsin's replies in that thread I linked. There are more concerns expressed than just the technical issues. And not trying to be rude, but one point that has long been clear is that PvP is not a high-priority value for a majority of Pantheon's fans. Which raises the issue of asking VR to spend time & resources on something that would benefit a limited number of Players, in a game where many supporters already complain regularly about how long development is taking, and often ask for VR to "leave out until after release" various of the fundamental parts that are already planned to be in the game. PvP has not been a fundamental part of the plans for Pantheon, from the beginning.
Jothany gave most of the problems with trying to accomodate both pve and pvp on the same server.
Apart from those issues I also prefer separate servers because pvp tends to attract people that get bored or unhappy with the system faster and leave. Producing more unstable server populations. It tends to attract more aggressive people that produce a more toxic environment. Far more "trash talk" in chat on pvp servers. Far more trolling. Frequent near monopolization of the chat channels for pvp topics that the great majority doesn't care about even if there is a separate pvp channel that the server rules say should be used. A significant reduction in overall maturity levels since studies have often shown that pvp attracts significantly younger people. This is inapplicable to any of us - we are all old and grizzled veterans - but new people trying the game out on the other hand .....
Jothany said:I suggest you read all Kilsin's replies in that thread I linked. There are more concerns expressed than just the technical issues. And not trying to be rude, but one point that has long been clear is that PvP is not a high-priority value for a majority of Pantheon's fans. Which raises the issue of asking VR to spend time & resources on something that would benefit a limited number of Players, in a game where many supporters already complain regularly about how long development is taking, and often ask for VR to "leave out until after release" various of the fundamental parts that are already planned to be in the game. PvP has not been a fundamental part of the plans for Pantheon, from the beginning.
I don't want Pantheon to be a primarily PVP game. I'm not asking for it to be the forefront of their development, but I do think it's important and I'm sure others who enjoy both do too. I'm really happy that VR is making PVE the focused feature.
dorotea said:Jothany gave most of the problems with trying to accomodate both pve and pvp on the same server.
Apart from those issues I also prefer separate servers because pvp tends to attract people that get bored or unhappy with the system faster and leave. Producing more unstable server populations. It tends to attract more aggressive people that produce a more toxic environment. Far more "trash talk" in chat on pvp servers. Far more trolling. Frequent near monopolization of the chat channels for pvp topics that the great majority doesn't care about even if there is a separate pvp channel that the server rules say should be used. A significant reduction in overall maturity levels since studies have often shown that pvp attracts significantly younger people. This is inapplicable to any of us - we are all old and grizzled veterans - but new people trying the game out on the other hand .....
I've seen some pretty toxic PVE only raids with elitist officers/raid leaders spewing "trash talk" unecessarily to the participants. I've also seen toxic children in PVP like you said.... So I think an argument generalizing toxic behavior for both PVE and PVP mentalities can be made; It's not a really good sole reason to split the community up.
Think aobut it the loudest, brashest, noisiest minority of people often give the silent majority a bad name, because the silent majority are not going to make a big stink about things.
Cyphonus said:Thanks for the resources/links. I understand the dilemna of adusting PvE will effect PVP and vice versa .... but I think there is a solution for this dilemna. In Star Wars the Old Republic there is something called the "Bolster system" whenever you enter a PVP zone, and if you are below a certain rating, it "bolsters" your stats to level the playing field.
So Pantheon could do something similar to a bolster system, where they can make any changes they want to PvE, allow it to affect PvP, but make up for the difference via the "bolster system". This allows them to artificially change the difference without creating new kinds of gear, and the system is only triggered upon entering a PVP zone.
I remember this system. I think it could work, of course this should be an after-launch kind of development.
Jothany said:I suggest you read all Kilsin's replies in that thread I linked. There are more concerns expressed than just the technical issues. And not trying to be rude, but one point that has long been clear is that PvP is not a high-priority value for a majority of Pantheon's fans. Which raises the issue of asking VR to spend time & resources on something that would benefit a limited number of Players, in a game where many supporters already complain regularly about how long development is taking, and often ask for VR to "leave out until after release" various of the fundamental parts that are already planned to be in the game. PvP has not been a fundamental part of the plans for Pantheon, from the beginning.
I agree that PVP should not be the focus for the release of Pantheon for technical reasons, and that PVE should preceed PVP in terms of content focus. But some people think that it should just be neglected entirely and then force their preference on those who enjoy both worlds. That's why I promote instanced PVP, which isn't forced on anyone. I dunno how that can possibly be argued against...:P
EDIT: The developers definitely don't look at PVP as unimportant. Considering how they've spoken about their past PVP experiences in other MMORPG titles suggests they still think it's a fundamentally important feature to the overall longevity of Pantheon. It still has value in the MMORPG experience and important enough not to be neglected.
PvE are generally fun and relaxing, full of humor and stories. PvP games are usually full of trolls and human garbage, little minds attempting to dull the sting of perpetual mediocrity. I love good PvP games but I would not want to hang with any of the general population found there. The peeps of PvE MMOs though, I'd welcome them to my home for a week of merry making and group adventures. So to mix the two groups together is not a path to having a happy subscriber base. Keep the PvP lovers away from me please, their stink is not unlike a trolls unwashed undercarriage.
philo said:Don't worry. With contested camps all servers will be pvp/pve hybrids. ;)
Ditto, at least in pvp when the mega guild pushes you to the side you can try to pick them off, and if you can loot them they are probably very wealthy.
StoneFish said:PvE are generally fun and relaxing, full of humor and stories. PvP games are usually full of trolls and human garbage, little minds attempting to dull the sting of perpetual mediocrity. I love good PvP games but I would not want to hang with any of the general population found there. The peeps of PvE MMOs though, I'd welcome them to my home for a week of merry making and group adventures. So to mix the two groups together is not a path to having a happy subscriber base. Keep the PvP lovers away from me please, their stink is not unlike a trolls unwashed undercarriage.
Idk what pve you have been playing but I want in, my attempts at pure pve games like p99 or FF always led me to plenty of mega guilds dominating everything. It may be just as bad in pvp, but at least you have a way to be a thorn in their side, and maybe win every now and again, without getting your account banned.
BeaverBiscuit said:Ditto, at least in pvp when the mega guild pushes you to the side you can try to pick them off, and if you can loot them they are probably very wealthy.
StoneFish said:Idk what pve you have been playing but I want in, my attempts at pure pve games like p99 or FF always led me to plenty of mega guilds dominating everything. It may be just as bad in pvp, but at least you have a way to be a thorn in their side, and maybe win every now and again, without getting your account banned.
Exactly, toxicity is not exclusive to PVP. At least if there is open world content monopolizing, you can do legally do something about it with PVP :)
Hahaha. I love stuff like this. Player vs Player in the opinion wars.
Unwashed undercarriage and all you troll types can always slather yourself with axe body stink.
Honestly I want to have an alt on a PvP server but just for the curiosity factor. I'll stop at a road side freak show too on occasion.