Vandraad said:Syrif said:Vandraad said:Syrif said:How so? He contributed to the project, cool. Now the project moves forward - upward and onward! It’s like anything in life.
Have you never had to finish a project that someone else has started? It isn't just about picking up where the other person left off, especially if you're trying to maintain a consistent and coherent approach to things. Continuity is key. I'd ask just how far long did the tradeskills get before Corey left? What parts did he do? What parts did he start yet not finish?
A project is not 1 person. Honestly, never heard much about him other than a name, and I’ve been here since day 1. Apparently you haven’t either given all your questions. A project is much larger than 1 person.
If we were talkinga about a company with dozens upon dozens of full time employees with many people working on any given team I would agree with your statement that loss of one would not be an issue. But VR isn't a company with a hundred employees. It has a few FTEs with the rest as independent contractors wh ere a 'team' could really be as small as 2 people. You lose 50% of your team and the loss of one person is quite substantial. Who else besides Corey was actually working on the design/actual mechanics of tradeskills and not just art assets?
Lol, there are more than a ‘team of 2’ working on Pantheon. Anyway, silly back and forth. I’ve stated my opinion as have you, no need to argue. To Visionary Realms: excellent work thus far! Onward and upward!
Corey has left to pursue other opportunities which is very common in this industry. Like VERY common - it is just more noticeable with a smaller team but again, nothing changes, we have multiple people in these roles and are always networking and in contact with people to replace staff where needed. We will never announce departures unless in extreme situations that we believe need explanations.
We love Corey, appreciate his contribution to Pantheon and wish him the very best in his future endeavours! :)
Lol, there are more than a ‘team of 2’ working on Pantheon. Anyway, silly back and forth. I’ve stated my opinion as have you, no need to argue. To Visionary Realms: excellent work thus far! Onward and upward!
The design team has never been more than 3 people, and one of them is now gone. From everything VR has shown us, Corey was the head of crafting/harvesting. I think it's more than fair to want to know where this now stands. No one has ever stated that VR only has 2 people working on the game, Vandraad was specifically talking about the departments. If you are unaware, try clicking 'The Team' link at the bottom of the page. Your 'white knighting' is noted, but is pretty weak.
Kilsin said:Corey has left to pursue other opportunities which is very common in this industry. Like VERY common - it is just more noticeable with a smaller team but again, nothing changes, we have multiple people in these roles and are always networking and in contact with people to replace staff where needed. We will never announce departures unless in extreme situations that we believe need explanations.
We love Corey, appreciate his contribution to Pantheon and wish him the very best in his future endeavours! :)
Don't people get poached after a project is finished, when their work is shown or shines?
Jothany said:antonius said:Really no positive way to interpret the fact that stuff like this is never published. Pretty significant departure.
I've never encountered a company that makes a point to announce every time an employee leaves the company.
Employees have various rights to privacy. Even if there isn't a law about a specific situation, any decent company will respect the wishes of an employee concerning the release of info about them, unless it actually causes problems for the company.
And no, none of us are 'entitled' to know such things.
Exactly!
Some folks need to develop the game of their life.
Fragile said:The design team has never been more than 3 people, and one of them is now gone. From everything VR has shown us, Corey was the head of crafting/harvesting. I think it's more than fair to want to know where this now stands. No one has ever stated that VR only has 2 people working on the game, Vandraad was specifically talking about the departments. If you are unaware, try clicking 'The Team' link at the bottom of the page. Your 'white knighting' is noted, but is pretty weak.
See Kilsin’s post to help clear up your confusion. It seems you are unfamiliar with how the industry works. Corey‘s work is greatly appreciated, and just as he said - Pantheon is in good hands! :) And thank you! I am going to take knightly as a compliment. Upward and Onward! <3
I think people misinterpret. When those of us who note it is a big negative that his departure has been kept quiet, it is more along the lines of the following. He was a significant member of the development team, and given how small the team is, it is reasonable to question how much his departure impacts it overall. Further, you would assume that he would need to be replaced, and even if you do not publish when people leave, you CERTAINLY publish (or SHOULD given how small this team is and how much your fans regularly are questioning the progress) when you add any kind of staff, because it makes the progress look more real and it makes the prospects look brighter. No one can reasonably act like this project would not benefit from any news that makes people feel more secure about its progress.
The fact that such a major team member left, no one really heard about it, and no replacement was announced seems odd. I am not saying you post every single person who leaves, but generally when a major person leaves a project they have been on for 4.5 years, unless it is a negative, hostile or acrimonious departure, a replacement is already queued up or in the pipeline. Seems strange that 2 months later, there has never been a "Please welcome our new senior developer, blah blah!" Obviously no one else has been brought in to replace him, and it does seem strange given his supposedly significant role.
This game is in the hands of development.... if development fails it means THEY will have squandered the oppertunity of a lifetime. WE dont have to worry. WE are totally secure. THEY are policed by these FACTS, and some folks attempting to "be the police" all over these forums isnt doing anything but bolstering or creating from scratch crap attitudes within the community. Your not enlightening the community (though you pretend), you literally darken it with every statement you make. In fact its completely contrary to the positive development of this game, your stressing areas that live under stress. Thats not going to make things stronger. No ones hiding from the truth - they are DEALING with it. I know in my life people like you make it very difficult for me to do my work (Im a problem solving drama killer not a problem pointer-outter drama queen).
White knighting > Asshatting .....................Adhere to the better way and/or die.
Your attempt at asshatting is noted, but will not prevail. We here SUPPORT the development team. We understand they are facing many adversitys, so we face these WITH them. We will not turn our backs when times get tough, indeed we will only strengthen our commitment to the team and the community. If you want to create an energy thats contrary to this your better off starting your own anti pantheon website. If you guys feel so insecure about the future of pantheon why the hell are you trying to make me feel that way? Whats the point? Oh. So that I would feel insecure and weak as well.....
I dont.
Kilsin said:Corey has left to pursue other opportunities which is very common in this industry. Like VERY common - it is just more noticeable with a smaller team but again, nothing changes, we have multiple people in these roles and are always networking and in contact with people to replace staff where needed. We will never announce departures unless in extreme situations that we believe need explanations.
We love Corey, appreciate his contribution to Pantheon and wish him the very best in his future endeavours! :)
This is a very classy response and way of handling this topic.
Jothany said:antonius said:Really no positive way to interpret the fact that stuff like this is never published. Pretty significant departure.
I've never encountered a company that makes a point to announce every time an employee leaves the company.
Employees have various rights to privacy. Even if there isn't a law about a specific situation, any decent company will respect the wishes of an employee concerning the release of info about them, unless it actually causes problems for the company.
And no, none of us are 'entitled' to know such things.
Well spoken, indeed many times this benefits the person leaving as they are entitled to some privacy.
Well from my life experience working for different companies over the many years, employees coming and going is usually a Human Resources/personnel matter, between the employer and the employee. Usually such information isn't broadcast to the world. Given the recent passing of the CCO, I would say that nothing untoward is going on, that more than likely VR has their ducks in a row..and if people are working on a contract basis, yes you will see Devs come and go. Not a reason to panic by any means. VR has a dedicated, motivated team. :) I have been involved as a pledger since early 2014...I have seen lumps and bumps along the way...but this is part of the growing pains of an Indy company over the years. Joppa and the rest of the team are determined, hard working, motivated people. Let's give them some space to breathe and then go forward. :)
Cana
Kilsin said:Corey has left to pursue other opportunities which is very common in this industry. Like VERY common - it is just more noticeable with a smaller team but again, nothing changes, we have multiple people in these roles and are always networking and in contact with people to replace staff where needed. We will never announce departures unless in extreme situations that we believe need explanations.
We love Corey, appreciate his contribution to Pantheon and wish him the very best in his future endeavours! :)
I understand the thread went off the rails a little bit between naysayers and white knights, but any chance you or the team can actually address the valid concerns in the original post? Specifically, Now that lead crafting and harvesting designer Corey LeFever is off the team, what is going on with these two spheres? Are his designs scrapped and we're starting over? Did somebody else take over those two spheres? I'm a little concerned since for multiple years we've been told Corey is "one of us" and crafting is in good hands with him in charge. Look forward to hearing more on this.
Just looking for a little light shed on the crafting/harvesting situation as it currently stands and which employee is now heading up the development? All seem logical questions since we've been talking with Corey for almost 5 years now.
Mathir said:..but any chance you or the team can actually address the valid concerns in the original post? Specifically, Now that lead crafting and harvesting designer Corey LeFever is off the team, what is going on with these two spheres? Are his designs scrapped and we're starting over? Did somebody else take over those two spheres? I'm a little concerned since for multiple years we've been told Corey is "one of us" and crafting is in good hands with him in charge. Look forward to hearing more on this.
Just looking for a little light shed on the crafting/harvesting situation as it currently stands and which employee is now heading up the development? All seem logical questions since we've been talking with Corey for almost 5 years now.
Exactly. Was alot of the tradeskill/crafting sphere work completed by Corey? Is it now just a fine tuning and putting on a nice wrapper and bow? We don't need specifics, @Kilsin, but some info about this is warranted. If Corey's departure was the result of him completing all the work associated with the project, that should be something you would want to promote to everyone. Another item checked off the list of things needed finishing to get us into Alpha.
Or we could just theorize and rumorcraft that he left because the project is being mismanaged, or that he accomplished squat in over 4 years of work and you are having to start over which then means this game is even further behind schedule. You'd definiately want to keep that fiasco secret.
I'd go with the former over the latter but we'll find out the truth once PAs resume and we get into Alpha.
Vandraad said:Exactly. Was alot of the tradeskill/crafting sphere work completed by Corey? Is it now just a fine tuning and putting on a nice wrapper and bow? We don't need specifics, @Kilsin, but some info about this is warranted. If Corey's departure was the result of him completing all the work associated with the project, that should be something you would want to promote to everyone. Another item checked off the list of things needed finishing to get us into Alpha.
Or we could just theorize and rumorcraft that he left because the project is being mismanaged, or that he accomplished squat in over 4 years of work and you are having to start over which then means this game is even further behind schedule. You'd definiately want to keep that fiasco secret.
I'd go with the former over the latter but we'll find out the truth once PAs resume and we get into Alpha.
I hope it doesn't have that same stink as the "new website". Remember that fiasco? #NeverForget
dorotea said:By "knighting" I assume the intention was to say you were acting sirly. Perhaps like Lancelot or Galahad. Maybe Gawain.
He means when Queen Elizabeth places a sword on each of your shoulders after murmuring a phrase and tells you to rise.
Or, if you make it to the other side of the board and get another checker placed on top of you... No, wait, that's Kinging. Disregard.
Im a person who stands in the middle. While the OP is agreeable, the attacks on those who dont think the worst case scenario around every corner will not be accepted by me. I will polarize to the exact opposite side with the same force, and without shame. Why shouldnt I? The "naysayers" as some call them are really unwitting participants in life. Wherever you place your attention gains strength as it consumes your energy. This is a law of life (and obvious). Why would you focus your energy on denigrating your investments? Remember THAT fiasco! Full of contradictions.
"I loathe this game and what its development does... yet here I am to ***** and moan about them day in and day out." air quotes
Grow up boys. Being knighted sometimes leads to being kinged. Bitching about everything just leads to no one liking you at all. Frankly theres a list of you thats not even 10 people long posting hateful nonsense EVERYWHERE even in the stream following brads demise. Constantly demanding to know details of personal lives while bearing false witness about whats going on behind the scenes as if you have any clue. Talking down to the true supporters of the project.... as if your up on something, and they are pathetic "believers" in the vision. In truth you couldnt be much lower..... Those of you who dont generally gravitate to negativity, but are quick to jump on the bandwagon when one of the aforementioned less than 10 makes a statement - your the lowest of the low.
It seems to me that the lot of YOU are the problem ... not the dev team. The dev teams actually working to DO something. All you guys DO is circle jerk and **** talk. Want my attention? Want my support? Start coming up with ideas to help and start discussing those. You can call me a white knight or whatever, but this is how things actually get accomplished. What your suggesting (ad naseum) is why so many of us fail. Are you just going to point or are you going to try to help? Didnt mom ever tell you "if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all"? Listen to your Mother. Say nice things and HELP by DOING something - and then you wont be upset if anything goes wrong, how could you be when you did all you could? This is BASIC psychology and the path to personal peace. Information you clearly have not recieved. Receive it today.
All that said why are we treating the development team like they are our slaves for a few measely bucks? Do any of you like your boss breathing down your neck and **** talking your work WHILE your working? Wouldnt it be much more constructive for OUR finished product if we were to be a good "boss"? Treating the SIGIL team like this (bosses demanding timelines) is precisely what led to the downfall of VG. People cannot be as fluid/creative when their PASSION is forced onto them as a JOB. This was a variable the verant team didnt have to contend with - perhaps thats the source of EQs success? Ponderous...........
Please grow up and not only comprehend this, but please help support with your actions. Constructive criticism is one thing and IS warranted, but these obvious back biting comments many of you make are CHILDISH and DO NOT help.
Oooooo kay. I would comment on the hilarious, borderline insane ramblings, personal attacks and projection of personal emotional issues elsewhere in this thread, but why bother.
Anyway, more on point, as stated by others, there are some valid questions as to what the departure means and how it affects the state of the projects that he was working on, and the project as a whole if he has not/is not being replaced. I don't remember anyone demanding to see personal details about anyone or why they left, but like I said before, I think it is odd that such a major person has not been replaced (which certainly would have been announced). Unfortunately, for those who have been following this sphere of games for a long time, there are too many cases of things falling apart (Vanguard's development and the interviews and statements made by staff members after are particularly enlightening) for people to just ignore. Everyone here I wager wants this game to succeed, I mean we all put REAL MONEY into it out of our own pockets. The continual hysterical screaming at anyone who posts legitimate concerns or issues is illogical, since even those people pitched in and want to see the game realized.
The sad reality is that this game does not have a surplus of trust and confidence built up beyond some blind hysteria where people lash out personally at anyone who asks questions, so people are quick to worry about stuff like this, and rightfully so. I mean, if Sigil received $30 million 13 years ago (as was stated publicly by a few sources) and could not finish their game, obviously there is always concern that resources will run out. Now I know this project is ostensibly being managed far more intelligently than VG was, but I seriously seriously doubt this game has received anywhere near that funding level. Saying endlessly that things are great is all good, but that statement is made by every developer of every game that fails or never sees the light of day before it fails.
Are people concerned that Corey left after almost 5 years? Yes. Should they be? Probably. We do not know enough to know for sure, but on its face without more ancillary information, it is not a positive move. Like I said, I don't think nor have I really seen anyone demanding the gory Corey details as to why and how he left. People want to know what state the stuff he did is in, is he being replaced, has he been replaced, etc. You cannot just have a senior developer leave after half a decade and just say, oh everything is going according to pace. It is one thing to say, the crafting system is X complete, it only needs XYZ, so and so has been brought in to handle etc, etc. I mean, when Brasse came on board, they made a big thing announcing it, and unless I am mistaken (apologies if I am), she is not even a programmer or responsible for anything development wise. Unfortunately, the fact that the development team is pretty deadset against discussing details of development only breeds more uncertainty, and even though silence by itself does not mean lack of progress, it is more often than not a sign of it. Obviously this is a conscious choice they make, not a required decision for all development, because many developers are far more detailed and even provide estimates on milestones, release, etc even if they change. They have clearly decided that less information is better for whatever reason, but no one can really be surprised when that style breeds more questions on a regular basis. Pantheon is my last great hope for MMOs, as it is for many if not all here, I suspect. Let us hope for the best.