First thing. Stop talking down to people and acting like you're " holier than thou". People have been relax and people have held there tongue. People have had enough with the poor leadership. Yes I said it. When we keep getting 2nd hand information vs 1st hand information on what is suppose to be the official site along with the same nitpicking stream video(s) showing us basicly nothing but art work by those people VR deem to be worthy enough to run said streams while hyping up PF and all they can do is yet another PA. No I'm not holding my tongue any more. These rumors keep getting pass because they have abandon there own official site and don't nip them in the butt when they do pop up. These forums have lost all integrity because they got lazy. If you break the rules they set forth for these forums you'll get away with it as long as nobody reports you. That is being lazy and/ or abanding these forums all together.
They keep talking about all these libraries they created while doing PF and that they can use them to speed up development of the other two continents. Will they need to get at it. If PF is just one continent with all the game features implemented in it. They need to open it up for the alpha and the PA pledgers, not just PA pledgers. At this rate the PA pledgers are going to get to sample the game another 4 plus times while the main backers, the alpha and beta pledgers wait for what seems to be an endless waiting period. So don't tell me to calm down. So you're a VIP pledger. You got deeper pockets than me. Congratulations! You already got to sample the game 4 times while the rest of us have been waiting. Now you're going to get a 5th and maybe more. Not no, but hell no. That is double standards in my book.
They already tell us nothing. So this scare tactic that if we don't hush they'll stop telling us any thing is laughable. Art work with extremely minor gaming mechanics is all we get. So basicly nothing. What has me mad as a hornet is how the VIP pledgers keep getting to sample the game while the rest of us wait and wait and wait some more. By the way I'm only a beta pledger not a alpha pledger and I'm staying a beta pledger. So I'm not being bias and thinking only of myself when I call for them to open it up to the alpha pledgers.
Vander said:First thing. Stop talking down to people and acting like you're " holier than thou". People have been relax and people have held there tongue. People have had enough with the poor leadership. Yes I said it. When we keep getting 2nd hand information vs 1st hand information on what is suppose to be the official site along with the same nitpicking stream video(s) showing us basicly nothing but art work by those people VR deem to be worthy enough to run said streams while hyping up PF and all they can do is yet another PA. No I'm not holding my tongue any more. These rumors keep getting pass because they have abandon there own official site and don't nip them in the butt when they do pop up. These forums have lost all integrity because they got lazy. If you break the rules they set forth for these forums you'll get away with it as long as nobody reports you. That is being lazy and/ or abanding these forums all together.
They keep talking about all these libraries they created while doing PF and that they can use them to speed up development of the other two continents. Will they need to get at it. If PF is just one continent with all the game features implemented in it. They need to open it up for the alpha and the PA pledgers, not just PA pledgers. At this rate the PA pledgers are going to get to sample the game another 4 plus times while the main backers, the alpha and beta pledgers wait for what seems to be an endless waiting period. So don't tell me to calm down. So you're a VIP pledger. You got deeper pockets than me. Congratulations! You already got to sample the game 4 times while the rest of us have been waiting. Now you're going to get a 5th and maybe more. Not no, but hell no. That is double standards in my book.
They already tell us nothing. So this scare tactic that if we don't hush they'll stop telling us any thing is laughable. Art work with extremely minor gaming mechanics is all we get. So basicly nothing. What has me mad as a hornet is how the VIP pledgers keep getting to sample the game while the rest of us wait and wait and wait some more. By the way I'm only a beta pledger not a alpha pledger and I'm staying a beta pledger. So I'm not being bias and thinking only of myself when I call for them to open it up to the alpha pledgers.
I usually don't get involved in threads like this because nobody can argue emotion or feelings. But I did want to clarify one thing. Most VIP people didn't drop the amount of money they had to drop to get a sneak peak at the game. Most of them put that money in because they want a game with the description that PRotF has in its game tenets. They join those pre-alpha events to provide feedback and help ensure the game ends up where it is going. By placing the value on the pledges that they did, they help to ensure that people respect the NDA, because violating it is expensive, plus having 10 thousand pre-alpha testers is worthless, because they would never get through the feedback flood they'd get from it.
I realize that you feel that the game is taking too long, or that communication may not be to your liking, and you have every right to if you feel that way. You're entitled to that opinion, but there are reasons they do the things they do and hold the information they hold onto.
Caffeineinjected said: @Syrif: correction.. eq was great at it’s time of release. The community was great for 2 very important reasons. 1. The niche or void or need was there. D&D player’s like myself were looking for this outlet. There were very few games really filling this void. 2. The internet was a non factor here. Very few sites existed or were commonly frequented by gamers of MMO’s. MMOs themselves, especially in the west held very little market share on hames in general. Keep in mind EverQuest at it’s height only had around 450,000 subs. So.. yes the community was great because people needed each other. No one knew everything. Together we were greater. There were not all these terrible sites saying THIS is the best build or this is how you should level. .. and the need was there. I’ll tell you right now, that if eq and wow launched at the same time with similar gfx wow would have absolutely crushed EQ. It was easily the better game. Just my opinion of course.. .. ....
That would have been impossible as WoW simply copied most of EQ's content, as well as other MMO's of that time.
Caine said:Concidering Brad has been delivering MMOs for 20 years, I think you are jumping the gun here. This isn't Star Citizen.
it's not if, but when and how special is it?
This is technicaly inaccurate. Brad started two MMO's, but a gaming monolith (at the time) had to finish them both and spent the bulk of the time finishing and supporting them.
Caffeineinjected said: @Syrif: EverQuest highest subs .. around 500,000 WoW 12 million.. community was based on the times and difficulty.. think about that
If you truly want to do a comparison.
When WoW released, 5 years after EQ it copied almost all of EQ.
The amount of actual computers in homes had exploded in those 5 years and computer gaming moved from being not just an adult thing to kiddies as well. And the kiddies liked "easy", which WoW was, and is, as well as having cartoon characters aimed directly at children.
People had access to the internet from faster devices than a 12Kbaud modem, and most homes had added 2nd phone lines. ISP were exploding with growth.
Not to mention the tech to actually do instancing did not functionally exist in 1999. Virtualization was a wet dream.
And frankly anything with instances is not an MMO.
Maybe you would like to compare a Tesla with a Ford Fairlane next?
Caffeineinjected said:Starting to get concerned that my 300 dollars was wasted. That the money is being mismanaged and the leadership at VR may be the problem.
The delays, lack of information, and really poor quality of released content I've seen so far have me a bit concerned.
Reading more into the history of some of the people affiliated with VR has not helped my mood either.
I will agree with this OP generally, but I knew the risks.
I was hopeful, optimistic. "Hopetimistic".
I knew and know the team is woefully small to actually complete enough content for such a large project, and thus it would take years, many years.
Pledging money to a cause such as Pantheon is like lending money to a friend. Basically I call it a gift and don't expect to get it back. :D
Read through all this, and even as a previous supporter X2 of EQ-Next (so yes, the same bad taste in my mouth) I'm not concerned a bit about the release of Pantheon. We have a good team working on this and they will deliver, it's just going to take time.
What DOES concern me is the general idea among some here that seem to be under the impression that now we have to wait for Pre-Alpha 5. I'm sorry but most of us knew pa5 was going to be needed and (here's the bomb people seem to be ignoring) there MAY even need to be a Pre-Alpha 6, or 7, or... they have not set a limit and they made this clear in this newsletter that it looks like some of you ignored (didn't want to hear it apperantly)
After Pre-Alpha 5, additional Pre-Alpha events may need to be scheduled as we discover new issues and features that need to be addressed; this is something that we simply cannot predict and we will announce any additional testing well in advance. We are aiming to get the rest of the data we need with PA5, but there remains a possibility that we may need to extend it. Again, in a traditional, closed studio, no one would get insight into this process at all; we’re laying it all out on the line for you.
Don't ignore this people, it may save you the discouragement of finding out they need a PA6. They have never said there will only be 5.... right now they can only say they need at LEAST 5
I just want them to put out a good game. It's clear there are some serious fan boys/girls or white knights and I wish I would have never posted this as you cannot look at this subjectively. I obvioulys pledged 300 because I believed in Pantheon. Right now not so much.
end of post
Caffeineinjected said:I just want them to put out a good game. It's clear there are some serious fan boys/girls or white knights and I wish I would have never posted this as you cannot look at this subjectively. I obvioulys pledged 300 because I believed in Pantheon. Right now not so much.
end of post
Are you just posting looking for people to agree with you or have your stance reinforced? You ask and you'll get feedback. If it largely agrees with you, then you have something, if not, you don't then criticize the very community you asked to partake in this conversation. I'm sorry if you honestly think this way but I'd ask you take a hiatus and come back. Following the development for a game this far back isn't usually healthy for many in the community. This is in part why games for as long as they existed only released details or even the game's existence long after the development is over and it's onto in-house closed beta testing.
Caffeineinjected said: @Syrif: correction.. eq was great at it’s time of release. The community was great for 2 very important reasons. 1. The niche or void or need was there. D&D player’s like myself were looking for this outlet. There were very few games really filling this void. 2. The internet was a non factor here. Very few sites existed or were commonly frequented by gamers of MMO’s. MMOs themselves, especially in the west held very little market share on hames in general. Keep in mind EverQuest at it’s height only had around 450,000 subs. So.. yes the community was great because people needed each other. No one knew everything. Together we were greater. There were not all these terrible sites saying THIS is the best build or this is how you should level. .. and the need was there. I’ll tell you right now, that if eq and wow launched at the same time with similar gfx wow would have absolutely crushed EQ. It was easily the better game. Just my opinion of course.. .. ....
Only some of us had computers back in the day. In WoW’s time, computers were a dime a dozen. So, even more impressive on the part of Classic EQ. When I judge and compare a game, I judge and compare the game. Brad simply made the best mmorpg to ever exist. In addition, the best community was just ice on the pudding.. the community returns here daily. Anyone with experience back in the day knows that Classic WoW was a joke in comparison to Classic Everquest. But hey, if an easier mmorpg with cartoony graphics like WoW is your cup of tea, then all the power to you. As for Pantheon, VR is putting all of their time into development, which is EXACTLY where it needs to be RIGHT NOW.
I remain optimistic, development is long, a small team is longer.
As stated by other people, one of the problem is that we had glimpses of the game in such an early stage of development we are used to see them release one or two years after. That's probably the biggest problem with crowdfunding or semi-crowdfunding, is that the game is shown in primitive states and they need to keep it "visually acceptable" or it won't generate revenue and attention while working at the same time in core features that will not make next streams, screens or such better or showing much evolution.
I have nothing better to do than wait and observe, I would like to play but I can't. Voicing won't make things faster, and honestly if they throw a few things to reassure people I won't really care for it. I don't think they are magician overall, and can alter time or hasten things. Guys working even on sunday don't deserve to be shamed.
MauvaisOeil said:I remain optimistic, development is long, a small team is longer.
And maybe, because the team is small, more shite needs to be hitting the cutting room floor and be set aside as expansion content. Acclimation, Perception, Dispositions...any one or combination of these could be put off to appear in an expansion.
Caffeineinjected said: Lmao, gutted my own argument. You misunderstood my post obviously. It’s HOW they’ve lacked communication. How they have disregarded any negative or harsh constructive criticism. How they’ve hand fed the populace in an obvious smoke screen to deter and evade the truth. Appreciate Nephele’s post. Always an intelligent one.
Lacked communication? How-so? They post newsletters every month on their progress. They do videos from time-to-time. They deliver developer roundtable discussions. Hell, they do more to promote Pantheon, given the current state of development, and more peeks behind the scene, than almost every other MMO out there during their development cycle.
What smoke screen? What "evasion of the truth"? You make all of these accusations without providing ANY examples or proof. It sounds to me like you're just a **** stirrer with an axe to grind.
Vandraad said:MauvaisOeil said:I remain optimistic, development is long, a small team is longer.
And maybe, because the team is small, more shite needs to be hitting the cutting room floor and be set aside as expansion content. Acclimation, Perception, Dispositions...any one or combination of these could be put off to appear in an expansion.
I vote the acclimation system gets cut first!
Vandraad said:MauvaisOeil said:I remain optimistic, development is long, a small team is longer.
And maybe, because the team is small, more shite needs to be hitting the cutting room floor and be set aside as expansion content. Acclimation, Perception, Dispositions...any one or combination of these could be put off to appear in an expansion.
And maybe people should just let them make their game however they want and stop pretending to be owed or entitled to any say in that process.
Caffeineinjected said:I just want them to put out a good game. It's clear there are some serious fan boys/girls or white knights and I wish I would have never posted this as you cannot look at this subjectively. I obvioulys pledged 300 because I believed in Pantheon. Right now not so much.
end of post
No. You want to stir the pot and create ill will.... As evidenced by your multiple unproven allegations against Brad and Visionary Realms.
Iksar said:Vandraad said:MauvaisOeil said:I remain optimistic, development is long, a small team is longer.
And maybe, because the team is small, more shite needs to be hitting the cutting room floor and be set aside as expansion content. Acclimation, Perception, Dispositions...any one or combination of these could be put off to appear in an expansion.
And maybe people should just let them make their game however they want and stop pretending to be owed or entitled to any say in that process.
This....
Being a Pledged backer means exactly nothing with regards to entitlement or being "owed" anything. You are investing in a product with no guaranteed return on investment. Whether that investment is $50 or $10,000+. In fact, you get zero *TANGIBLE* return on investment, even if the product does well, unless you choose to count the entertainment value.
Some gambled less than me. Some gambled more than me. I *HOPE* the game gets completed and released. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I didn't gamble any more than I was prepared to lose. I do the same thing when I go to Las Vegas, only in my opinion, Visionary Realms has higher odds than most things in Vegas.
Sillyness. The game will release 14 November 2023. Now I'm going back to my spaceship and I'll see you guys in a few years.
But in all honesty, how can anyone be upset at this point? Does anyone honestly expect this game to release before 2022? It's aint happening. Sure PF is close to being done, but that project is to demonstrate all the funtioning capabilities of all game systems. However, Faerthale is only a small precentage of the world, so they have the entire rest of the world to complete and incorperate all of those systems. They are quite a ways away from having the game finished. Which is to say, they don't currently have a "world" to show us. It's, get this...in development. They are continually giving news, hiring new people and getting more pledges. They are not, firing people, not staying silent and not giving pledge money back. Where is anyone sense that they are failing?
kelenin said:Vander said:First thing. Stop talking down to people and acting like you're " holier than thou". People have been relax and people have held there tongue. People have had enough with the poor leadership. Yes I said it. When we keep getting 2nd hand information vs 1st hand information on what is suppose to be the official site along with the same nitpicking stream video(s) showing us basicly nothing but art work by those people VR deem to be worthy enough to run said streams while hyping up PF and all they can do is yet another PA. No I'm not holding my tongue any more. These rumors keep getting pass because they have abandon there own official site and don't nip them in the butt when they do pop up. These forums have lost all integrity because they got lazy. If you break the rules they set forth for these forums you'll get away with it as long as nobody reports you. That is being lazy and/ or abanding these forums all together.
They keep talking about all these libraries they created while doing PF and that they can use them to speed up development of the other two continents. Will they need to get at it. If PF is just one continent with all the game features implemented in it. They need to open it up for the alpha and the PA pledgers, not just PA pledgers. At this rate the PA pledgers are going to get to sample the game another 4 plus times while the main backers, the alpha and beta pledgers wait for what seems to be an endless waiting period. So don't tell me to calm down. So you're a VIP pledger. You got deeper pockets than me. Congratulations! You already got to sample the game 4 times while the rest of us have been waiting. Now you're going to get a 5th and maybe more. Not no, but hell no. That is double standards in my book.
They already tell us nothing. So this scare tactic that if we don't hush they'll stop telling us any thing is laughable. Art work with extremely minor gaming mechanics is all we get. So basicly nothing. What has me mad as a hornet is how the VIP pledgers keep getting to sample the game while the rest of us wait and wait and wait some more. By the way I'm only a beta pledger not a alpha pledger and I'm staying a beta pledger. So I'm not being bias and thinking only of myself when I call for them to open it up to the alpha pledgers.
I usually don't get involved in threads like this because nobody can argue emotion or feelings. But I did want to clarify one thing. Most VIP people didn't drop the amount of money they had to drop to get a sneak peak at the game. Most of them put that money in because they want a game with the description that PRotF has in its game tenets. They join those pre-alpha events to provide feedback and help ensure the game ends up where it is going. By placing the value on the pledges that they did, they help to ensure that people respect the NDA, because violating it is expensive, plus having 10 thousand pre-alpha testers is worthless, because they would never get through the feedback flood they'd get from it.
I realize that you feel that the game is taking too long, or that communication may not be to your liking, and you have every right to if you feel that way. You're entitled to that opinion, but there are reasons they do the things they do and hold the information they hold onto.
First of all. You did come across as respectful, so I thank you for that. /salute With all the hype they placed around PF and with the fact it has all the game mechanics in it up and running. I do feel like they need to open it up to alpha and stress test it before they implement a lot of the bugs that are sure to be discover into the other two continents. Sorry if I came across as being emotional. Yes I was am anger, but I held back from going full nuclear.
I'm not angry because I think the game is taking to long. I'm angry because of the hype placed on PF and they are still talking about PA 5 and maybe more. I'm angry because you will always have liars speading lies and misinformation. That is why having an "official" site is so important. So you can get first hand information from the VR team. We have been getting 2nd hand information and 3rd hand information on what should be the official site. I'm not happy with that. If you can't see the problem with that I don't know what else to say to try and clarify the point I'm trying to make. Perception is everything.
I'm also not to happy with the last newsletter we just got. I have held the banner for VR and tried to keep people calm myself in the past, but with that said. Even I can not defend that last newletter we just got. It was IMHO a total waste of resoucres and I'd prefer getting nothing over getting garbage with no insight.
I stand firm when I say if PF is finish. You need to open it up to alpha pledgers. Having an official site is extremely important to maintain the integrity of the game and forums. Stop with the 2nd hand information.
Now you do make a great point with the NDA. I like to see how VR handles that with out keeping the game is PA standing for another year or longer. I was trying to show you the same respect you showed me. Sorry if I come across as being vary direct. I'm an old Soldier that lacks people skills and I'm not to proud to admit it. Didn't they just hire " Saicred " to go through all the feedback? Will put that Marine to work.
