Riahuf22 said:I love how people love the way the lore is written but than when it restricted them in class they say that their lore shouldn't define them in who they are, because like if a ogre wizard could be a class in pantheon wouldn't you think in all the lore of being a tribe type of people that if an Ogre went a different route and became a wizard and became a wizard GM that it wouldn't of made it into the lore? That's like saying when humans figured out how to make light it wasn't documented into history, oh wait it was I forgot.
Surely the lore we've been given to read thus far isn't the entirety of all the lore that has or will ever be written about the world.
Chanus said:Riahuf22 said:I love how people love the way the lore is written but than when it restricted them in class they say that their lore shouldn't define them in who they are, because like if a ogre wizard could be a class in pantheon wouldn't you think in all the lore of being a tribe type of people that if an Ogre went a different route and became a wizard and became a wizard GM that it wouldn't of made it into the lore? That's like saying when humans figured out how to make light it wasn't documented into history, oh wait it was I forgot.
Surely the lore we've been given to read thus far isn't the entirety of all the lore that has or will ever be written about the world.
Clearly there was enough of it to for the devs to make race class restrictions to build off of it.
And like I said in a previous post if they put in lore that gnomes recanted being a incorporeal form to keep their physical bodies to become a warrior or dire lord I would be okay with it, because it's in the lore I am.not asking for much, just clarification in the lore that it happened, or a halfling became curious in an experiment and learned how to become a wizard and such, but I don't want their to be a lore of a race and than make a race/class combo that doesn't fit the lore or history of that race because than the lore becomes meaningless, if you aren't going to follow through with it.
And just so people don't read this the wrong way, I am NOT saying they have to make gnomes change their appearance to be a plate wearer I am simply just giving an example of how it could be done. I would never tell the devs how to make their game that they have been doing a great job at. So before someone tries to use it against am I am putting in my disclaimer now before it happens.
Hawaii's own Jesse James Wailani Kuhualua, known in the Sumo ring as Takayima Daigoro. That was huge, no pun intended. Hadn't been done before and rarely done since. He had to adopt the whole lifestyle and culture and he wanted to. Alot of backstory we probably didn't hear about. Like San Fansicso's own Bruce Lee, liked the martial art movie scene better in China so he moved. (thank God!) but I imagione for both it was also a personal struggle of epic proportions.
I dont have a problem with humans being a smattering of everything, and masters of none, or some. I can see other races having more of a benefit in some areas. In Pantheon, can a Human fight like an Ogre? maybe, following the path of Jesse James? they could try,"bulk up" and proably fail. Lou Ferigno is bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger. Lou is better defined and arguably more developed than Arnold, and Arnold admited to it.
They may have the same moves, but some will be just better than others in some areas and unfortunately for some, for reasons that are not based on stats or measurements alone but overall .... I dont know the word.
Think of the thing that allows casting directors or casting agents to do the job they do, as example. By themselves they are no great shakes, and probably have to suffer a kind of ridicule daily. There's tons of talent, good talent, out there, but they have the ability to choose that one that when everyone else looks at that one, they know that one can make everyone else feel the same way.
@187
there is going to be some that want ultra race/class restrictions (bdo) and there's going to be some that want all/all (gw2)
there needs to be a compromise.
humans are the all/all.
ogres are the most restricted.
i simply want them to tweak the class/race matrix or adjust the lore so that there is sensible DISTINCTION outside of aesthetics.
pushing the all/all will kill distinction.
we know racial abilities are going to exist.
let's just say ogres get a bonus to strength 4% and humans get a bonus to all stats 2%.
ogre is going to be slightly better at damage and maintaining threat.
humans are going to be overall better in a general situations.
why play an ogre warrior when a human is going to be better in most situations because of racials?
solution would be to remove all racials then so that every class and race is equal in any circumstance.
this still would not be true.
clerics are balanced healers.
druids are buffer healers.
shamans are aoe healers.
paladins are single target healers.
i'd have to crop abilities or add abilities make sure each class is equal in different types of healing scenarios.
i'd lose class distinction if i did this.
these designed(restrictive would have been the choice, but it seems to draw negative innotations) differences that's what makes each class unique.
i want the 'designed' class/race to exists for an immersive world.
this whole idea is distinctiveness(since diversity is triggering people) with reason.
what would you compromise at?
Leachim said:If the humans are they only ones who have the ability to chose from any and all classes, then I think that alone should be their bonus.
You're a human your specal racial ability lets you be anything, but you get no bonus stats to make you any better at anything either.
as a human i'd like to breathe underwater like a dark myr(too bad the oceans of terminus is poisonous for dark myr to breathe >.>). i should be able to since we are all equal and we can be anything we want :D
actually i'd kind of like the no bonus for humans. wait no. you have to do 2% bonus to all stats to sell the adaptibility of the race.
then give the other races stat boost to specific stats to push the distinctiveness.
stellarmind said:Leachim said:If the humans are they only ones who have the ability to chose from any and all classes, then I think that alone should be their bonus.
You're a human your specal racial ability lets you be anything, but you get no bonus stats to make you any better at anything either.
as a human i'd like to breathe underwater like a dark myr(too bad the oceans of terminus is poisonous for dark myr to breathe >.>). i should be able to since we are all equal and we can be anything we want :D
actually i'd kind of like the no bonus for humans. wait no. you have to do 2% bonus to all stats to sell the adaptibility of the race.
then give the other races stat boost to specific stats to push the distinctiveness.
I've been thinking that the humans passive might have somerhing to do with the fact they can be all classes, maybe with something a little extra but in a jest it just that. As for the other races will have more specific passives to better support the classes they can be. But who knows maybe VR will surprise us all :).
If ogre warriors have the best stregnth bonus, and assuming strength is tied to damage, then ogre warriors will do the best damage (to overly simplify the point).
So why would you play any warrior other than an ogre warrior? Now you have not only restricted what race can be what class, you've made it pointless to be any race except one specifically if you want to play a certain class and be the best you can be.
I don't see this as a good thing.
Making the races different to the point where one is quantifiably the best for a certain class limits player choice to an extreme degree.
Chanus said:If ogre warriors have the best stregnth bonus, and assuming strength is tied to damage, then ogre warriors will do the best damage (to overly simplify the point).
So why would you play any warrior other than an ogre warrior? Now you have not only restricted what race can be what class, you've made it pointless to be any race except one specifically if you want to play a certain class and be the best you can be.
I don't see this as a good thing.
Making the races different to the point where one is quantifiably the best for a certain class limits player choice to an extreme degree.
You might play another race because we don't really know what the other stats will influence, or even that STR will be the primary/only stat that determines damage. Maybe CHA affects your taunt, in which case, ogre would probably be the worst choice. It's all a give-and-take. Sure, you might have the most hitpoints, but you also have the worst dodge, so you're going to need all those hitpoints.
Chanus said:If ogre warriors have the best stregnth bonus, and assuming strength is tied to damage, then ogre warriors will do the best damage (to overly simplify the point).
So why would you play any warrior other than an ogre warrior? Now you have not only restricted what race can be what class, you've made it pointless to be any race except one specifically if you want to play a certain class and be the best you can be.
I don't see this as a good thing.
Making the races different to the point where one is quantifiably the best for a certain class limits player choice to an extreme degree.
I see your point, but not everyone feels the need to be "the best" nor does everyone chase the accursed "meta". It would be logical for Ogres to be the strongest warriors, but that doesn't mean others can't be more dexeterious and thus get hit less. Having one class quantifiably better than othes doesn't limit player's choices, they can still choose to be someting sub-optimal, it's just the min-maxers who *feel* they have no choice but to go with what class fits "the meta".
To take the argument of "why play any race/class but the best?" argument to the extreme (something I don't think anybody wants) would be to have only 1 race per class, then it is by default the best.
I feel that by implemnting a matrix, the designer is saying, they don't belive players will spread out enough among the various races (maybe that's true, but why is that a bad thing). By putting in these artifical barriers and forcing certain race/class combos while denying other, they are limiting options. If our prefered race/combo doesn't appear in the given matrix then one of our choices becomes lessened. We must either stick with a race we love and pick a class available to them we think we might like, or pick our class then figure out which race they can be and hope you are okay with those options.
Perhaps they also trying to make is harder for a group to be dominated by one race, but I don't see that that really matters.
As I said before, it is their game to make in whatever way they feel is best to meet their vision. I am still looking forward to playing it, even though my character won't be exactly what I was hoping to make.
Chanus said:If ogre warriors have the best stregnth bonus, and assuming strength is tied to damage, then ogre warriors will do the best damage (to overly simplify the point).
So why would you play any warrior other than an ogre warrior? Now you have not only restricted what race can be what class, you've made it pointless to be any race except one specifically if you want to play a certain class and be the best you can be.
I don't see this as a good thing.
Making the races different to the point where one is quantifiably the best for a certain class limits player choice to an extreme degree.
Strength (STR) Measure of a character's physical strength. Stamina (STA) . Agility (AGI) . Dexterity (DEX) . Constitution (CON) . Wisdom (WIS) . Intelligence (INT) . Charisma (CHA)
this is from the wiki. racial stat % is speculation. we could say gnomes would have bonus to int, elves bonus to agility etc etc. but we don't know what they will be.
if my objective is to be a dps warrior, then ogre would be the best choice.
if my objective is to be the immortal tank, then maybe dwarf is the best choice.
there isn't anything to say that i can't dps as a dwarf warrior. i'd be basically equal to any other race warrior in dps minus ogres.
it's not too clear yet, but we know certain stats will affect certain abilities for each class.
i think druids will have a broad stat choice of choosing between healing(wisdom), cc duration (consitution), and damage(intelligence) i think it's something like this i might be wrong.
the end result is i have distinctive race and class because MY choice has reasoning. i have distinctive gear choice depending on what i want to do.
wow has this problem when they started allowing any race to be any class. racials became the next focal point. they gutted racials now people complain about one class performing better than the other. now they have gutted class abilities so hard there is very little difference between a priest healer and a monk healer. it's funny that blizzard can no longer do a revert because players will cry. they are stuck in a give only, but never take paradigm. all they can do is add classes that restrict races. demon hunter is an example of this.
i can't be super restrictive and i can't be super free for all.
the objective is to be distinctive while maintaining balance and allowing players a choice outside of aesthetics.
Chanus said:If ogre warriors have the best stregnth bonus, and assuming strength is tied to damage, then ogre warriors will do the best damage (to overly simplify the point).
So why would you play any warrior other than an ogre warrior? Now you have not only restricted what race can be what class, you've made it pointless to be any race except one specifically if you want to play a certain class and be the best you can be.
I don't see this as a good thing.
Making the races different to the point where one is quantifiably the best for a certain class limits player choice to an extreme degree.
But what about agility, there you might have the best midigation tanks which obviously wouldn't be a huge target like an ogre but maybe an elf, granted would a ogre possibly hold better aggro sure but an Elf would be easier to heal, and we don't even know passives all we know the halfling could get something that makes him a viable tanks if you want to deal with his starting stats and build him up, not everyone is going to be the same, plus their could be dex, agi, and sta rolls in the warriors kit for all we know and certain races will be better at some and worse at some that's the beauty of the whole system anyway.
Riahuf22 said:But what about agility, there you might have the best midigation tanks which obviously wouldn't be a huge target like an ogre but maybe an elf, granted would a ogre possibly hold better aggro sure but an Elf would be easier to heal, and we don't even know passives all we know the halfling could get something that makes him a viable tanks if you want to deal with his starting stats and build him up, not everyone is going to be the same, plus their could be dex, agi, and sta rolls in the warriors kit for all we know and certain races will be better at some and worse at some that's the beauty of the whole system anyway.
In the context of what was being discussed, yes, absolutely, depending on playstyle and personal preference. The idea that halfling warriors could be viable tanks depending on criteria such as their starting stats and racial passives, and how those things can tie into the ability/buff modifiers, and then letting players figure all of these things out and be able to make something of it ... can be highly satisfying. Warriors are a great class to play because there are a bunch of options to experiment with. We know that stats are going to be tied into ability modifiers so race choice actually means something for warriors! There are 8 different choices to make, each with their own layers of strengths and weaknesses. Race/Class choice matters more for warriors (again, in the context of what was being discussed) than any other class in the game because there are more variables to weigh and consider. Fun facts:
Warriors represent 7% of the available classes, and are represented by 89% of the races.
Paladins represent 7% of the available classes, and are represented by 22% of the races.
Meaning ... warriors have roughly 400% more meaningful options (as it relates to how starting stats and racial passives will impact the beauty of race/class customization) than paladins.
Humans represent 11% of the available races, and are represented by 100% of the classes.
Ogres represent 11% of the available races, and are represented by 28% of the classes.
Meaning ... humans have roughly 400% more representation across the race/class matrix than ogres.
Warriors/Rogues combined represent 14% of the available classes, and are represented by 11.9% of all possible race/class combinations.
Paladins/Clerics combined represent 14% of the available classes, and are represented by 3% of all possible race/class combinations.
Meaning ... warriors/rogues combined have roughly 400% more representation across the race/class matrix than paladins/clerics.
Humans/Dark Myr combined represent 22% of the available races, and are represented by 19.8% of the overall race/class picture.
Ogres/Gnomes/Halflings combined represent 33% of the available races, and are represented by 11.1% of the overall race/class picture.
Meaning that ... despite ogres/gnomes/halflings representing 50% more of the total race options than humans/dark myr, they still have roughly 50% less representation across the matrix as a whole.
The combined statistics of human/warrior cover 95.6% of the options available to them.
The combined statistics of ogre/paladin cover 26% of the options available to them.
Meaning that ... meaningful choice is much more meaningful, depending on what race/class you want to play. What is more meaningful? Asking someone whether their favorite color is blue or green? Or asking them to pick the actual color, down to the finest of details?
Humans can play as many classes as ogres, gnomes, and halflings combined.
Warriors can be as many races as paladins, clerics, and rangers combined.
In other words, in the context of players having to make a choice on how their race or class will affect each other, some races/classes are mostly beautiful while others are red-headed step-children that have very little customization/experimentation potential available at all. If you want to leverage the "beauty of the system" -- you are pigeonholed into a few choices where that beauty has a chance to shine. Some races/classes just get screwed out of that deal, and it is what it is. This will become more obvious when the racial passives are revealed and players begin to theory craft. We're talking about one of the very few permanent choices that players can make that can distinguish their race or class from those who might share one, but not the other.
I'm not going to repeat myself to you if all your going to say is the same thing over and over again I have no interest in giving you anymore attention I'll just let you deal with the fact that for the mean time you'll have to deal with class race restriction and I hope it never changes.
Some interesting observations (from lore) tonight:
"Though it is commonly assumed, the Age of Chaos did not simply end at the conclusion the of the Deicide War. For even as the Revenant threat was finally beaten back or dispersed, much of Terminus lay in ruin. Entire cities, cultures, realms and even landscapes were wiped away in the bloodshed, and many that remained were irreversibly transformed, much like Ittero was transformed, much like the Ginto were. For such was the heritage of this War of Gods: nothing could ever be the same. As wounded Terminus took her first breaths in victory, wrapped in the hasty dressings of the dead, she looked over her injured body and saw her inhabitants broken like tissue, tendon and bone. There were fractures needing the utmost care to be set, yet too many that would never properly receive it."
Much like Ginto, eh?
"Ginavi resolved a desperate plan: she would seed herself within the remaining Ginto with a portion of her power and undiminished holiness, hoping to preserve them. (This act was similarly undertaken by the Dark Myr Goddess of Bounty, Syronai, though to less fortunate effect). In the warmth of the next morning, Ginavi sacrificed herself to imbue the few remaining undefiled Ginto with her power, transforming them into a second new race, immune to the effects of the Ravaging Lord and his Revenant. These are known as the Remnant: zealous, pious warriors of exceptional abilities, with an unyielding appetite to exterminate the Revenant."
Sounds like they were transformed into a bunch of paladins!
Interesting excerpt on Halflings:
"The Halflings have planted well in Wild's End, grooming the wide, root-trees of the coast and grassland into a town of breathtaking uniqueness. They can be found all over the globe, and I count one in my close company. I shall say no more, for they are a people who must be known face to face, not discovered on a page."
This sounds extremely on-point with what I would expect for most races, but at least halflings have it established in their lore.
The impact of humans on Terminus:
"It is perhaps wise to briefly return the narrative to Vesu and King Avendyr, whose vision for what his people must become was said to be crystallized in that hour on the aloof island. For there is no figure who so altered the future of his own race or Terminus at large than the Human leader. Even before he set foot on Vesu, his frontline leadership in the many battles leading up to Ka’Druhorr had more than won the respect of his contemporaries."
Many of the races fought side by side during the Deicide War, often fortified (together) within the various Sanctums, or marching as a single host at Mount Ka'Druhorr. It is entirely plausible that they would have trained together and learned from each other for the sake of survival.
Most of the cultures were irreversibly transformed after the war and it seems highly plausible that various races would have shown a willingness to embrace the culture and traditions of their allies that they fought together with. King Avendyr had more of an impact on the future of Terminus than any other known figure. Seeing that he was the leader of the human race (who happen to have zero restrictions) and had more than won the respect of his contemporaries (this includes the other 5 races that fought together during the Deicide War) -- the stars seem aligned.
The cities and cultures were irreversibly transformed after the war, never having been in a more malleable position, and never to be the same, and the human leader recites the Speech of Souls. It was so inspirational that it is still repeated by Elves more than 450 years later.
I'm not going to draw any specific conclusions on what all of that could mean for the race/class matrix, but to me, it seems like there is plenty of established lore that backs up the idea that the members/families of other races could/would try to emulate the super-versatile humans ... and this is according to just one man of many!
The final excerpt from the Frail Age:
"What will be the outcome of this age of frailty none can say with true, tested foresight. Will Terminus stay the splintered remains of other worlds as Semina described, or shall it heal and grow into one vast expanse as he surely must have hoped? I have read countless predictions (a deplorable enjoyment of mine), heard from a number of oracles (the most reliable of whom are insane) and even suffered a soothsayer or two (an abject, unhygienic lot). All stand in need of their “parents”."
Honestly the race/class matrix is not here to represent exceptions, very rare cases or the one in time historical affro american samurai. Event if players are willing to play the very rare flake that could happen once in a century, it's not why the matric exists, some exceptions can happen but they are marginal enough for beeing limited to NPC. The fact is the game developpers choose to opt for a class race matrix, and there are little chance for it to change, because it's not voiced by a majorité. At best there are half (if not less) that want a full all/all choice, but as stellarmind summed up : Human might be the choice for thooses.
Again, no better compromise can be done between limit, and no limit, that a race that has no limit while others do. I don't like humans for this reason and will probably never make one because to me, that's why they lack a spine in their background.
oneADseven said:Some interesting observations (from lore) tonight:
"Though it is commonly assumed, the Age of Chaos did not simply end at the conclusion the of the Deicide War. For even as the Revenant threat was finally beaten back or dispersed, much of Terminus lay in ruin. Entire cities, cultures, realms and even landscapes were wiped away in the bloodshed, and many that remained were irreversibly transformed, much like Ittero was transformed, much like the Ginto were. For such was the heritage of this War of Gods: nothing could ever be the same. As wounded Terminus took her first breaths in victory, wrapped in the hasty dressings of the dead, she looked over her injured body and saw her inhabitants broken like tissue, tendon and bone. There were fractures needing the utmost care to be set, yet too many that would never properly receive it."
Much like Ginto, eh?
"Ginavi resolved a desperate plan: she would seed herself within the remaining Ginto with a portion of her power and undiminished holiness, hoping to preserve them. (This act was similarly undertaken by the Dark Myr Goddess of Bounty, Syronai, though to less fortunate effect). In the warmth of the next morning, Ginavi sacrificed herself to imbue the few remaining undefiled Ginto with her power, transforming them into a second new race, immune to the effects of the Ravaging Lord and his Revenant. These are known as the Remnant: zealous, pious warriors of exceptional abilities, with an unyielding appetite to exterminate the Revenant."
Sounds like they were transformed into a bunch of paladins!
Interesting excerpt on Halflings:"The Halflings have planted well in Wild's End, grooming the wide, root-trees of the coast and grassland into a town of breathtaking uniqueness. They can be found all over the globe, and I count one in my close company. I shall say no more, for they are a people who must be known face to face, not discovered on a page."
This sounds extremely on-point with what I would expect for most races, but at least halflings have it established in their lore.
The impact of humans on Terminus:
"It is perhaps wise to briefly return the narrative to Vesu and King Avendyr, whose vision for what his people must become was said to be crystallized in that hour on the aloof island. For there is no figure who so altered the future of his own race or Terminus at large than the Human leader. Even before he set foot on Vesu, his frontline leadership in the many battles leading up to Ka’Druhorr had more than won the respect of his contemporaries."
Many of the races fought side by side during the Deicide War, often fortified (together) within the various Sanctums, or marching as a single host at Mount Ka'Druhorr. It is entirely plausible that they would have trained together and learned from each other for the sake of survival.
Most of the cultures were irreversibly transformed after the war and it seems highly plausible that various races would have shown a willingness to embrace the culture and traditions of their allies that they fought together with. King Avendyr had more of an impact on the future of Terminus than any other known figure. Seeing that he was the leader of the human race (who happen to have zero restrictions) and had more than won the respect of his contemporaries (this includes the other 5 races that fought together during the Deicide War) -- the stars seem aligned.
The cities and cultures were irreversibly transformed after the war, never having been in a more malleable position, and never to be the same, and the human leader recites the Speech of Souls. It was so inspirational that it is still repeated by Elves more than 450 years later.
I'm not going to draw any specific conclusions on what all of that could mean for the race/class matrix, but to me, it seems like there is plenty of established lore that backs up the idea that the members/families of other races could/would try to emulate the super-versatile humans ... and this is according to just one man of many!
The final excerpt from the Frail Age:
"What will be the outcome of this age of frailty none can say with true, tested foresight. Will Terminus stay the splintered remains of other worlds as Semina described, or shall it heal and grow into one vast expanse as he surely must have hoped? I have read countless predictions (a deplorable enjoyment of mine), heard from a number of oracles (the most reliable of whom are insane) and even suffered a soothsayer or two (an abject, unhygienic lot). All stand in need of their “parents”."
In the dark myr case you could read it as dark myr having a chance to be paladins but to be it sounds like there was a former type of dark myr that got cursed by the ravaging lord and the revenant so when the made the new dark myr they made sure they couldn't be corrupted by them.
And yes their is a lot of lore to seem like some more could be, but why? Where the value? If you go back to old school DnD, which this is trying to be a old school mmorpg with modern add-ons and not the other way around, being a paladin was extremely selective in what class you can be. And the same for some other classes and people loved it. So to be when I hear all/all I hear people who had there hands held and was trying to have something make sense that made no sense at all, and most of the games that gave you the possibility of it had extremely bad lore into the races. I don't see a problem with restrictions to be they make way more sense, and I understand it doesn't to you but if someone wants to paladins I bet like 80% of them either one knew they were going to be extremely restrictive and probably were going to be human or dwarf anyway, like me. Now we're some shocked when they couldn't be elves yes, but for what I've noticed hardly any other class has even complained they can't be a something because their is alrdy enough choices for them, and again if they add in a slot for paladin to be something and they back it up I wouldn't care because it's in the lore of pantheon and not just slapped on their and given to us because the community complained to much.
1) I have never really thought that class/race restrictions really added to any game. It always struck me as “its too much development work to write the backstory and create the in game art objects and NPCs for each class and race combo so we are just going to do half that”. Race choice being “meaningful” just leads to bitching and protectionism. Unless you are playing a race with a slight class template then the race itself is just a non mechanic based lore skin of a specific class.
2) I did like DDOs method of unlocking other classes and races through long term game play. It gave you something to work towards but DDO character live cycles were also focused around reincarnation for character growth so your main could potentially be any class or race eventually.
3) For easy of game balance reasons all mechanics should be the same but the flavor skin should be either appropriate for the race or a generic one size fits all.
4) Just cause I can’t wear a size 0 dress doesn’t mean I don’t want to learn how to make one . . . er what were we talking about again?
Trasak said:1) I have never really thought that class/race restrictions really added to any game. It always struck me as “its too much development work to write the backstory and create the in game art objects and NPCs for each class and race combo so we are just going to do half that”. Race choice being “meaningful” just leads to bitching and protectionism. Unless you are playing a race with a slight class template then the race itself is just a non mechanic based lore skin of a specific class.
2) I did like DDOs method of unlocking other classes and races through long term game play. It gave you something to work towards but DDO character live cycles were also focused around reincarnation for character growth so your main could potentially be any class or race eventually.
3) For easy of game balance reasons all mechanics should be the same but the flavor skin should be either appropriate for the race or a generic one size fits all.
4) Just cause I can’t wear a size 0 dress doesn’t mean I don’t want to learn how to make one . . . er what were we talking about again?
I think unlocking the ability for your account through some lore-based quest mechanic is a fine compromise to the issue. I don't think you'll have many people interested in re-rolling their characters after putting in a significant amount of work on them.
Chanus said:I'm even fine with the unlocking being done per-race and not an all-in-one single unlock.
Yeah, I am not really advocating a direct drag and drop of DDO's system. A character's life cycle will greatly effect what is enjoyable and what feels like busy work or too much of a sacrifice. In DDO each class Build/Race combo was more like a chapter in a longer book than an entire book itself. There was also a lot less focus on end game.
Another thing is I can name 2 huge games that had class restriction which was WoW and Everquest. And honestly probably the 2 biggest successes in the entire industry of gaming, and it started at the beginning pike would oggok look like a ogre city if they slapped wizards into their homeland, heck ko it wouldn't and it wouldn't even fit into the way they were. And another thing other than maybe Neverwinter which is free to play so it's in another scope all together is probably the only successful all/all games I can think of, but again it's free to play would it be if it was sub based? Who knows. The community always thinks they know what they want but honestly it will always be a want, want, want situations and than the game will try to make them feel like they are doing what the community wants but in the end they start losing their costumers because they made a ton of bad choices by listening to the communtiy, look at WoW was a great game, and considered the best to some but now it's just bad, kept listening to people instead of following their own goals and created the game the way they wanted to create it and kept kneeling to the community and now it's literally like 1/20 of what it was because of it.