@Tanix as I am reading through the comments i am noticing that SOME people are adding their 2 cents to the OP, and their post just so happends to be after one of your posts, and you think they are talking to you about something you've said. They are not. They are simply giving their imput to the Original Post.
Except you're very welcome to post to me since I @'d you. =)
Novel idea: Stop worrying about how others play or what they do. If some other player resorts to the "black market" to RMT for some gold or even a character and doesn't get caught then whatever, that's on them and has little to do with you (you probably won't even know who has done so anyway) and it shouldn't influence how YOU play or enjoy the game.
Soloing should be possible for all classes, just notably less efficient even in the best of circumstances than grouping.
The game needs options for both solo play and group play. Group play can be incentivized without completely removing solo options. When people don't have friends/guildies online and can't find a group they should have something to do apart from logging off.
As an aside some of my favorite times were duo running 5-man dungeons with a friend. Being creative/good with mechanics it felt awesome to complete something in a way we weren't 'supposed' to.
I'm not saying anything, and having players kill NPC'S well below their level, that aren't in dungeons, or rare/name mobs just to gain a fraction of exp shouldn't bother anyone, their going to be soloing, even eq had it, and if you think that if every class can solo makes them all the same, than your wrong, for one warriors don't use spells and wizard can't tank
Riahuf22 said:I'm not saying anything, and having players kill NPC'S well below their level, that aren't in dungeons, or rare/name mobs just to gain a fraction of exp shouldn't bother anyone, their going to be soloing, even eq had it, and if you think that if every class can solo makes them all the same, than your wrong, for one warriors don't use spells and wizard can't tank
I have not read every post; however, I do not think what you stated is what people are arguing against.
Also, having every class able to solo does not mean they can solo equally (nor should they in my opinion). Take EQ as an example, as a Warrior I could kill green mobs. And after killing the mob and resting back to full 30 minutes to 1 hour would have passed (health regened really really slow in original EQ). While a Necro, Mage, or Enchanter could kill yellow mobs and do so in 5-10 minutes of downtime between each kill (if that).
Chogar said:Riahuf22 said:I'm not saying anything, and having players kill NPC'S well below their level, that aren't in dungeons, or rare/name mobs just to gain a fraction of exp shouldn't bother anyone, their going to be soloing, even eq had it, and if you think that if every class can solo makes them all the same, than your wrong, for one warriors don't use spells and wizard can't tank
I have not read every post; however, I do not think what you stated is what people are arguing against.
Also, having every class able to solo does not mean they can solo equally (nor should they in my opinion). Take EQ as an example, as a Warrior I could kill green mobs. And after killing the mob and resting back to full 30 minutes to 1 hour would have passed (health regened really really slow in original EQ). While a Necro, Mage, or Enchanter could kill yellow mobs and do so in 5-10 minutes of downtime between each kill (if that).
Yes and I agree with this, classes shouldn't be balanced to each other, certain classes are going to be able to solo better, either to mobs type or any other thing that sold make soloing easier,
Iksar said:Novel idea: Stop worrying about how others play or what they do. If some other player resorts to the "black market" to RMT for some gold or even a character and doesn't get caught then whatever, that's on them and has little to do with you (you probably won't even know who has done so anyway) and it shouldn't influence how YOU play or enjoy the game.
Soloing should be possible for all classes, just notably less efficient even in the best of circumstances than grouping.
No one is arguing that any class shouldn't be able to solo. The argument is for purposely designed solo content. That is the argument.
Darch said:
Tanix said:If you design content to be soloable, it means it has to be balanced so that all classes can solo it. This is how it is in a lot of other MMOs out there, this game is not the same, they are not specifically (to my knowledge) designing content to be beaten by a single player.
This is not 100% true... EQ1 warriors, rogues and Clerics could not solo well at all. And soloing was not "easy" for most classes. Even the things that you could solo, you would be better off with a partner or two for safety and efficiency. Just because you will be able to solo doesn't mean that the content will be trivialized. The Overthere comes to mind in EQ/Kunark. You COULD solo by kiting because this area was so large, but the risk of running into another add was super high and would force most classes to have to have to escape wasting a lot of progress/time.
But as mentioned before, this is getting a bit off topic.
What Tanix says is 100% correct. And Darch: that is exactly what made Old EQ a good game. I do not want all classes to be able to solo all content equally nor in the same way - no thank you. All classes can attempt 'potential solo' content, but the classes will be very diverse and different from each other to where many situations are just not possible for some classes.
Keno Monster said:
Tanix said:If you design content to be soloable, it means it has to be balanced so that all classes can solo it. This is how it is in a lot of other MMOs out there, this game is not the same, they are not specifically (to my knowledge) designing content to be beaten by a single player.
That's a really really weird statement to see from an EQ vet.
I'm an old EQ vet and nothing that Tanix says is very weird at all. I clearly got his point.
Tanix said:Dorotea,
You certainly have a lot of positions that I would call pretty darn mainstream. All I can say is that I have no desire to play a game you would get most of your way with. /shrug
No offense meant, just stating my opinion as I see it.
Agreed. I joined here back in Feb '14 and I find positions from posters like Dorotea's to be quite a bit irrelevant to the vision of this game. Then when you read their positions, they say "WoW this" or "FF14 that" and then they say "I never played EQ." It's like... Brad M. made EQ and VG... Well gee why wouldn't Pantheon be more closely aligned with those games? Or maybe I just woke up one day and dreamt this LOL. Anyway, if such people persistently advocate for what they like from WoW and FF14 then perhaps the Blizzard and FF forums are better places to advocate them? Or find the devs from those games and ask them to make a new game in line with those positions? Pantheon is going to be the ALTERNATIVE to the current mmorpg market. And about time. Not like the vast majority of people interested in Pantheon actually post on forums. It's been this way since 1999. This time there is no SOE to listen to the tiny minority of persistent forum whiners (and then change the game to what *IMO* I would call a watered down game).
Tanix said:
EQ content was not balanced for soloing. It was not designed for soloing, which is why some classes could to it better than others.
If you design the content to be solo'd, you are now setting limits to take into consideration their ability to defeat it. This will naturally result in the content being toned down more than it would be if it was designed as group content.
Exactly.
Tanix said:BeaverBiscuit said: @watemper I imagine not everyone wants do die all the time during their spare time, or have to twink themselves before soloing. Catered solo content would provide a simpler, far less deadly, means of spending idle time when you don't want to group, but do want to kill something and slightly progress your character, EVEN at higher levels. So long as the rewards honestly kind of suck, it won't violate the game's challenge/grouplove clauses enough to matter. As for wasting space..the world isn't made yet, so space can be added. As I said before VR might decide that adding it is too challenging or costly, but they definitely could, like say an area outside, or inside, some cities/towns/dungeons with a few things for players to log in and idly kill. I don't feel qualified to discuss the issue of cost and challenge on VRs part in adding this content, and like I said it wouldn't hurt the game itself significantly, so I remain neutral on whether VR implements it.
Not everyone is being catered to with this game BeaverBiscuit, that is the point. The idea that the game is being made for "everyone" is one of the design concepts that this game is avoiding as in reality, you can not make a game for everyone without forcing everyone to the lowest common denominator. What you may think is reasonable, someone else will most certainly push further past your position. The solution is you make a game for a specific focus and base, then... let people decide if they like it or not.
So it doesn't matter waht "everyone" wants, in fact.. the only thing that matters is the vision of VR. If VR was trying to make this game mainstream, it would not have many of the goals it has stated. It is not, so not everyone is going to be catered to, not everyone is going to be happy.
Let me put it this way, if they make this game for "Everyone", much of the people who initially supported it or have been following it with intent over the years would likely not play it to any real extent. In fact, if I had been one who spent 100's, or even 1000's of dollars to support this game and they all of a sudden started supporting mainstream "try to appeal to everyone" as a business model, I would be absolutely livid.
Well said Tanix. I also want to add yet again that Pantheon devs and others from the old community have said that Pantheon is not reaching out to the masses in an attempt at being a game for everyone. There were hundreds of thousands of people who played Brad M's games (Old EQ and VG) and they are returning here everyday. Glad to see them returning as well as people who are somewhat new to the genre, yet don't want WoW, FF etc.
Syrif said:Penta-posting
The only people that truly know The Vision are VR, and trying to push others out of the Pantheon community because they mention or liked things from non-EQ or VG MMOs is the opposite of what VR want.
Aradune said:...I also understand whenever something is brought up that a. wasn't in EQ or VG (seems to be primarily EQ, which is fine) or b. was implemented in another game but not well, that people raise red flags and concerns. This happens internally too, and I totally understand. Indeed, systems never tried before or that have been but poorly implemented in other games require additional scrutiny.
All that said, we aren't making an EQ emulator, which I know all of you know, and we are in a different period (2016 and not 1999). So there are some realities we have to deal with, one of the big ones is there will be a lot of people checking out Pantheon who aren't used to grouping/cooperative/social/community. Some/many may end up trying it and not liking it, preferring instead one of the more single-player oriented MMOs that are prevalent right now. And that's fine. But as I've posted before, I truly believe a significant percentage who haven't experienced the magic of EQ and earlier games *will* love Pantheon, and it's important both to us and you all that we bring those people in and take care of them, at least short term, so they can acclimate.
One other thing I've talked about before is keeping the concepts of 'idea' and 'implementation' separate in our minds. I know it's natural when you hear about a system that sounds similar (in name or description) to one that you've experienced in another MMO and didn't like to have some concern. There's where we need to think deeper and come to the conclusion: ok, was the idea a bad one, or was it the implementation of said idea?
A perfect example was when I brought up that I really want some cool underwater zones in Pantheon, even coming up with an aquatic playable race. When I first brought this up to the team, some were concerned... why? After digging deeper it was because underwater zones in previous MMOs they'd been involved with and/or played was frustrating. Either the controls were a pain, or the experience disorienting, etc. Nobody really had a problem with the concept of exploring an Atlantis type zone underwater -- in fact, most thought that sounded pretty appealing. Nobody really had an issue with trying to create a play experience underwater that was different than on ground, where you have to worry about being attacked from above or below, changing the physics a bit, etc.
The main concern was that, if we were going to tackle underwater zones, that we make sure they are as fun as regular zones, that players don't find out they want an item available only in an underwater zone and go 'ah man, I gotta endure underwater crappyness to get this item'. Totally legit reaction and feedback, and important because when we do tackle it, we know how important the implementation is going to be!
I really think this is the case for most of the other systems we are proposing that were not in EQ or VG. And especially, again, if they sound similar to a system in another MMO that people didn't care for. So again I encourage people to evaluate both the idea and the implementation. If you really don't like the idea, that's fine, say so and why. But if you don't have a problem with the idea or premise behind implementing such a system, but are rather concerned that it's implemented properly, not abused, not exploited, etc. then please make that clear as well.
I know most of you don't want us to create an EQ or VG emulator (especially since other people are working on them anyway). You want us to recapture the spirit, the magic, the x-factor and then bring it into a modern MMO and then also try some new ideas and attempt to move the genre forward in the direction we've all been dreaming about for years. For us to do that, of course, we're going to have to implement and try out some systems that are totally new as well as implement and try out systems that are similar to ones tried in more recent games but to execute on them better.
This will become even more true post-launch when ideas/systems/mechanics/content that belong to the Grand Vision become part of expansions and updates and such. As I've posted before, there are a LOT of ideas I and others have wanted to get into MMOs but have never had the time.
...So I guess it comes down to something like this:
1. What systems and such do we want to take from the first generation of MMOs and bring them back because, especially for our target audience, they've gone missing from the newer MMOs. I think we have a pretty clear picture of that, both from ourselves and from the community.
1a. Which of these systems need some tweaking or adjustments based on what we've learned in the last 16+ years?
1b. Which of these systems need to be changed because many in our audience have jobs, spouses, responsibilities, etc. and cannot, for example, regularly play 8 hour contiguous sessions? Again, their tastes in gaming haven't changed, but their situation in RL has.
1c. Which of these systems do we NOT want to resurrect? (e.g. staring at nothing while medding) Or which ones do we, but not to the degree or extent? (e.g. too much grinding or mindless repetition)
1d. Which of these systems that we want to bring back may be alien and unfamiliar to younger MMO gamers who never experienced the first generation of MMOs? And what should we do about that?
2. What new systems/mechanics/ideas/etc. do we want to bring to the game... the genesis of these ideas could be ones that we've had in our minds for years but an opportunity has never arisen to actually execute on them. Or they could be ideas we've seen in other MMOs that we liked, or that we think we'd like if they were implemented a bit differently. Or they could be brand new ideas from some of our newer team members, or from the community, etc..
2a. Do we feel we need them because, again, we're not just making an emulator? And because we want to move the genre forward? I think most people would answer yes even though their first reaction might be skeptical because they're unfamiliar (were not in EQ or VG or earlier MMOs) or that, again, they've seen something similar in another game and not cared for the implementation.
2b. How do we address these concerns? I think we can talk about them a bit, I can better try to explain them, how they'll work, how they are perhaps different than other prior implementations. But, again, at some point, especially with systems that require critical mass (e.g. a sufficient number of people in-game testing them, experimenting with and experiencing) that explanations and theory-crafting can only go so far. In those cases, at some point, I need to ask that you have patience and faith in the team and wait until beta. And please always keep in mind my very real commitment to you all that I mentioned in the previous post: if something doesn't work out when we actually have people playing with it, no matter how cool the idea sounded on paper, I will yank it. We've built the game with a solid foundation and are building the newer systems on top of this foundation so that if we do yank one, the game still works, the core of the game isn't compromised, and it isn't like a house of cards -- the whole game doesn't come crumbling down because we yanked out, say, the Mentor system.
3. Related to previous points, do we need to proactively introduce and acclimate these newer players? I strongly believe we do. I understand that we are making a hardcore challenging game. I understand that not everyone is going to like Pantheon, and we're ok with that. But now that 15+ million people have been exposed to online gaming, it is a statistical certainty that some percentage of them would have loved EQ and other first generation MMOs had they been around and online back then. So it only makes sense that we make Pantheon for them too, not just the old school who was around back then. I know you guys know that just making a game *only* for the old school doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for us financially. And I think it doesn't make sense for you players either -- I think many of you are going to enjoy introducing a newer, younger generation into what made the early games so amazing and immersive.
3a. With so many more recent MMOs more single player oriented, what impact does that have on Pantheon? And let me be more specific: many of the more recent MMOs, in the attempt to be as mass market and accessible as possible, have removed anything they think might or could be a barrier to entry to an online gamer. And I'm not posting this to criticize these games per se -- I understand their goals and where they were coming from. But not only did it leave our audience orphaned, it also conditioned newer MMO gamers in terms of what to expect and how to play these games. Some online gamers like a single player experience (e.g. they can solo through the game themselves) but having that experience in an online persistent world. They like feeling part of a greater group of players, they like seeing other real people running around... it makes their experience deeper and more immersive. But they don’t really want to interact a lot with other people, especially actually needing to cooperate with others and work as a team. And that's fine. But for those that do enjoy more social, team oriented, cooperative play, they've not really encountered that in an MMO (they do in some FPS games, MOBAs etc. but those games are more session based – they’re not about a persistent world and they’re not about building up a character for months and years and making a game a home). I truly believe that when they *do* experience all of this in a persistent world they’re going to love it.
But, and this is key, when they try out Pantheon, even those who end up loving the game, at first they're going to assume a gameplay style that they are accustomed to. And if they do that in Pantheon, if they just run off solo and try to fight any mob they come across, things aren't going to go well. And so, before they even experience the magic of shared experiences and a real community, there's the possibility they become frustrated and leave. With EQ, we didn't really think about this much, MMOs were new, there were fewer choices, and so we just let people figure out that they needed to group up and work together organically. But I strongly feel that we can't do that again -- this is 2016, not 1999. Do you guys agree?
3b. If you do agree, then what can we do about it? First, I don't think there's a simple answer. It's almost like a powerful bacterium that you have to attack with multiple antibiotics. I think you veteran players will play a key role, especially those of you who enjoy taking a newbie under your arm and introducing an MMO to them. But I think we need to go further -- I think we need to reward and actively encourage veteran players to help (again, this is what I call vertical interdependence). An obvious approach is, of course, a Guide System -- these worked very well in the first generation of MMOs and they are arguably going to be even more important in Pantheon. So that's the community side of things.
3c. Next is what's caused the most commotion and concern amongst you, and that is systems in-game that exist specifically to introduce gamers new to the social, grouping experience or to help them make real, lasting in-game friendships, and generally to foster and promote community building. Most of the concern I hear is that these systems could be looked at as 'easy-mode' or 'catering' to the new players. Or, worse yet, that they could be abused and taken advantage of by more experienced players. And I understand and hear that. On one hand we're promoting Pantheon as a hardcore, challenging game, and then on the other hand, we're bringing up these ideas to make the newbie's experience 'easier', or at least more welcoming and less jarring. I can see that, from a limited perspective anyway, those two goals could be seen as contradictory or at odds or even mutually exclusive. And to a point I think those concerns are certainly valid to bring up, because we have to make sure they are NOT at odds. But can we think of ways to gently bring in newbies, not scare them away, show them the magic of cooperative play and community while keeping Pantheon a hardcore, challenging game? We've certainly thought about that a lot and the answer is 1. Yes and 2. We have to.
So again, please do discuss these things, express your concerns, etc., but also do so realizing the need that we accomplish both, and help us with solutions. Something I've always stressed to my teams is that it's pretty easy for an intelligent developer or gamer to point out potential problems with a system. But what does that really accomplish? The true challenge is not just pointing out potential problems, but coming up with solutions, work arounds, different approaches, etc. Yes, it's harder to do, but it is *so* much more useful to us and it's really a huge part of game development. It's about smart and creative people coming together, recognizing problems and challenges, and then coming up with solutions. And I'd like to (and do) include all of you in this as well. I've seen a lot of not only great new ideas posted here and elsewhere, but also people thinking outside of the box and coming up with solutions and different approaches to address problems in MMOs, both the old ones and the new ones.
Anyway, long post, but I felt the need to really go into this, not just to address concerns about a Mentor system, but to try to address the big picture. I hope that most of you understand where I'm coming from and that this is helpful. The only people I think this truly won't resonate with would be 1. those who truly do just want us to make an EQ emulator and 2. those who really don't want any newbies in Pantheon, who would be content to have Pantheon merely be a haven for those of you who've felt abandoned and orphaned by the newer MMOs. If you fall into one or both of those categories, then I'm going to have to be really straight up with you: Pantheon isn't want you think or want it to be. Hopefully you think about all of this more and change your viewpoint. But I'm going to stand firm on those two statements: not an emulator, and not only for the old school gamer.
If you do agree, however, that Pantheon needs to move things forward, be a modern game, incorporate new ideas, then please consider those that we've revealed and talked about, and those we will in the future, keeping all of the above in mind. And if you do agree or at least understand that having a financially successful game allows us to keep working on the game long term, please understand the need for us to reach some subset of the 15+ million online gamers out there. And the need to proactively ease them into a game like Pantheon, the likes of which they've probably never experienced. Pantheon is most certainly a product of passion -- we're not just doing this to make money -- if we were, there are *far* easier genres to tackle. MMOs are hard, perhaps the hardest game genre. You've got to really be in love with them to work on them. But it's also about being profitable. The members of this team have families and bills and RL to contend with -- our dream is to create a great MMO that remains popular for months and years and that brings in the money that allows us to pay people what they deserve, to build the team as necessary, to create a working environment where people can focus on creating a great game and then keeping it great after launch without worrying about how they're going to pay bills or make ends meet. So the more people who end up playing and loving Pantheon the better. No, we're not going to veer away from the Vision to try to make an extra buck. No, we're not going to chase the wow-killer agenda that unfortunately a lot of MMOs did chase. We're just fine making a fantastic game for our audience. And that audience, when it’s made up of old school gamers as well as some percentage of newbies, is plenty large enough for Pantheon to be very profitable. But I do have to keep both groups in mind -- I need to make sure you guys are getting the game you want, that we're listening to you all, etc. But I also need to do whatever I can do make sure those who've never experienced the magic feel welcome and comfortable right away and aren't frustrated and chased away before they even have a chance to experience the magic we and you so dearly want to bring back to MMOs.
Anyway, 'nuff said, my verbose mode was certainly ON so hopefully you actually made it to the end of this post, but I wanted to cover it all and then bring it all together, so you guys understand why we're doing what we're doing. I look forward to any comments, questions, etc.
This post was edited by Iksar at February 13, 2019 12:10 PM PST
Tanix said:GioCefalu said:As others have also mentioned, I enjoy both, but it depends on how much time I have. So many MMOs (even modern day EQ) have put an emphasis on group play to the point that you have to have significant amounts of uninterrupted time, and that's just difficult for me. I can't commit the same amount of time I could when I was younger. Full time job, kids, other activities, you get the drill.
I'm hoping Pantheon gives me enough solo ability that I can play and accomplish something when I'm short on time, and I hope it also gives us group dynamics where interruptions (kids need to be tucked in, wife needs help with a chore, quick work call, etc) don't kill the group or their dependency on my character. I have some awesome memories of playing in groups when I was younger, but I don't have the time to LFG for 30 minutes, finding a lackluster group that doesn't provide anything for my character, spend 45 minutes running to the camp, killing stuff for 15 minutes, and then having to log off anyway. If the tools and functionality for quick group play with decent downtime or options to take a break for family life are in place, then give me the group content!
I don't uncerstand your argument. You do realize that when EQ was released, many of us were adults, with families, full time jobs and responsiblities? I don't think that argument is a valid one to use. Either you make time for play, or you don't. If a game does not fit your time commitment, then you play another game. Plenty of other modern MMOs are specifically designed to cater to such a play requirement.
Spot on. Many adults with kids/jobs/school played back in the day. Others are retired now and have a lot of time to play. You either make the time to play or you don't. If such game requires too much time and depth for someone, then that person plays another game.
Iksar said:
The only people that truly know The Vision are VR, and trying to push others out of the Pantheon community because they mention or liked things from non-EQ or VG MMOs is the opposite of what VR want.
Oh, Hi again Iksar.
Back @Iksar For the record, the mastermind of this project and other devs of this game (all from VR) either played or made EQ and VG. And if you reread what I wrote, I said that it makes sense why Pantheon would be *closer aligned* with EQ and VG. No one has said there should be an emu or clone here, not even me heh. I have yet to see that on the forums and I joined in early 2014 after KS when this started. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that some of their positions are prevalent in other games that already exist, while other positions that don't exist at the moment are where Pantheon will likely cover. Disagreeing with someone's position is not "pushing them out of the game." For example, when you have disagreed with me in the past it did not "push me out of the game."
100% correct. Agreed. Spot on. Well said. Exactly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/aoygmj/sometimes_i_feel_like_because_i_dont_want/
Hottested thread on the official Pantheon Reddit right now. In other words ... Brad's request to the community isn't even close to being realized. You can't even respond to an engagement from the Community Manager without being subjected to what certainly feels like anti-virus pop-ups that try to purge you from the system.
oneADseven said:100% correct. Agreed. Spot on. Well said. Exactly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/aoygmj/sometimes_i_feel_like_because_i_dont_want/
Hottested thread on the official Pantheon Reddit right now. In other words ... Brad's request to the community isn't even close to being realized. You can't even respond to an engagement from the Community Manager without being subjected to what certainly feels like anti-virus pop-ups that try to purge you from the system.
I don't use reddit nor have any interest in the slightest, but thanks.
Tanix said:oneADseven said:@ Tanix -- The cost was tied into the caravan item being consumed upon use. The kind of penalty you describe would make more sense if players could log in and out as they please while still being attached to the caravan. In the example I provided, that wouldn't happen ... mostly because it would allow the feature to be easily abused. Riders would only benefit from the caravan feature if it was attached to a stall and consumed. Since that item is a crafted item, and the components can be adjusted, the relative cost is easily controlled. The cost could be so high that nobody in their right mind would ever use the feature. This is something that would need to be tuned along the way but to imply that there is no cost or risk is completely inaccurate.
Cost isn't really a risk though (unless it is tied to core progression and of a serious note, ie corpse runs... level loss, etc...). All such deterrents do is get abused later. For instance, cost with potions in EQ were extremely high, to the point where even raids only bought a couple or so for certain classes at certain times. Then, a couple of dupe bugs later and people had stacks of them. Cost is not a good barrier, it didn't work out well with WoW either.
I don't think caravans should be a readinly useful feature. I think they should be for very specific need, under very specific cirumstances and have enormous amounts of risk and conditions. Cost, and other widget based restrictions are meaningless.
Make where players can lose their corpse (ie die and not be sure where they died at), limited on what and where you can go if you are a in a carvan (ie increased agro range, etc..), the list goes on. IF you are going to put in a magic port where anyone can use it, it has to have MAJOR possible negatives outside of gimmicks plat buyers can easily overcome or it is pointless.
Personally, I think the entire thing is a gimmick, because if it were to TRULY have a risk, people wouldn't use it (because most when given the choice won't risk things if it is for "convenience"), which is the point. It should be a "decision" to use such, not a component of how much plat I purchased online this week.
I'll say it if I wanna: well said and spot on! ;) But anyway, as others have said, I agree with Tanix on pretty much everything too. Caravans are a terrible, terrible idea; at least for the direction and vision of this game. The "cost" to such an idea would be abused eventually. It just paves the way for Pantheon to get watered down over time. Other games like WoW are living proof of this point. Sorry to repeat, but that mode of gameplay exists in other places already. Pantheon will likely be the alternative to the current mmo market instead. Apologies if my memory is off, but isn't oneadseven the guy/gal who has referenced FF14 a lot? Either way - I think it's been made quite clear that ideas from WoW, FF, etc aren't popular here hence the clashing. As I've said, given that Brad M made Old EQ and VG (and other Visionary Realms devs played these games) it makes sense why Pantheon would be closer in line with EQ and VG than say WoW or FF. Ofc there is no clone, but I'm just stating reason. I'm sure some people will disagree, but the large majority of people returning to Pantheon don't even use forums, a tiny minority do. It was this way back in the day too.
@Syrif why are you trying to silence a person from our community simply becuase he didn't play EQ or VG or at least doesn't refer to them, that childish. One soloing should be a thing, the devs have alrdy stated they want it to where when people log on and want to find a group they don't have to go around and pick the grass in their front lawn until it happens, plus like I said if they are soloing things well below their level it will do next to nothing, no improvements in gear or at least not equilavent to their level, and definately nothing to get them to end game content, or have high end trade mats probably either, so your saying it can do all these things but honestly none of us know anything your speculating based off other games, which doesn't even give pantheon a chance to breathe, they could actually do it right, and make people happy with the dicision, maybe not everyone but that okay, becuase regardless of any mmo I have been dissapointed a number of times but kept playing the gane I don't see anything different here.
@Riahuff I’m not silencing anyone. I stated my opinion as others have theirs.
Syrif said:Apologies if my memory is off, but isn't oneadseven the guy/gal who has referenced FF14 a lot?
I rarely bring up FF14, but when I do, I mention how it's an abomination to everything that made FF11 great.
Syrif said:I'll say it if I wanna: well said and spot on! ;) But anyway, as others have said, I agree with Tanix on pretty much everything too. Caravans are a terrible, terrible idea; at least for the direction and vision of this game.
You do realize that the caravan feature is something that Brad has described as part of his "Vision" multiple times right? What direction/vision of the game are you talking about? It was in Vanguard and it's something he wants to bring back to Pantheon.