Wasn't anything about this when I searched so I created this thread. One of the things the devs have said is that there might be PvP servers which is cool but not for me because I don't want to PvP all the time.
The ONLY thing I really liked about World of Warcraft was the battlegrounds. You could zone into a PvP and play a match of sorts with goals you had to fullfill and it showed where you ranked on the team at the end by showing how much damage you had done and how much you had healed friendly people if you were a healer. I loved being able to take a break from questing and getting XP and other stuff just to unwind with a couple of quick battlegrounds at the end of the day. It also taught you how to play your character in a different way.
Since Pantheon will already be implementing PvP for the PvP only servers maybe adding a couple of zones to PvE servers that people could PvP in who didn't want to PvP all the time wouldn't be that much extra work? I'd certainly enjoy being able to take a break and kill a few players in good natured combat. But I wouldn't want to be on a PvP server because there are other times I don't want to have to worry about PvP.
I'm prepared to accept that this might not be a very popular idea but I certainly enjoyed battlegrounds for some fun. I'm sure I can't be the only one. In fact I seem to remember they were always full.
Sevens said:Please dear god no, Keep the PvP on the pvp servers.
If you dont want to PvP all the time its simple, have a toon on the PvP server for when you want to PvP and one on the PvE server for when you dont.
Problem with that is open world PvP is totally different to battleground PvP. If you don't want to PvP at all on a PvE battlegrounds wouldn't force you to it would be completely optional. Hopefully the PvP itself would be seen in a good natured way and wouldn't devolve into some of the toxic elements you sometimes see in PvP games.
Battlegrounds were great. They let people who wanted to do the odd bit of PvP do it while allowing other people who didn't want anything to do with PvP the choice to completely ignore it if they wanted to.
If it was kept as an "arena" as they had in EQ..where you could just go in that certain area and pvp Im fine with that
Once you start having ladders, and leaderboards and special PvP gear and all the other crap that comes along with all the Battlefields I have seen from other games then I, personally, would not want to see that on a PvE server.
I thought battlegrounds were awesome as well. Honestly, the PVP was the only enjoyable gameplay I ever got out of WoW. The biggest issue with their PVP is that it wasn't standalone ... if paladins needed to be nerfed for PVP reasons, it had an impact on PVE. VR has already stated that such won't be the case in Pantheon. I am highly interested in the concept of PVP Battlegrounds, Arenas, Rated Battlegrounds, etc. A "PVP Server" is free for all open-world PVP. I might roll an alt on a server like that to have some fun but I'll never do it seriously. If there was limited amounts of PVP on my standard PVE server, though, I know I would play a bunch of it. One thing I would suggest, though, is that players not be able to level up through PVP battle grounds like we could in WoW. I always leveled exclusively through PVP ... it wasn't the fastest, but it was something you could solo que into and get 4-5% per battleground.
I wouldn't want to see it used as a sense of progression (unless we're talking about PVP specific gear) but there is definitely enough interest in PVP, across the board, that it should be considered as something that can be added to PVE servers as well. I think this would be a smart move. And with all due respect Sevens, using your same logic, if you don't want to PVP, your option is quite simple ... don't participate. I don't see how it's any different than crafting, harvesting, raiding, etc. I am strongly in favor of having some degree of PVP available on every server. We shouldn't force people who enjoy things such as arenas or battlegrounds to roll exclusively on a PVP server just like we wouldn't want crafters rolling on a crafting server, or raiders rolling on a raiding server. Your argument that we should just roll toons on multiple servers doesen't really work for me either because serious PVP players will annihilate anybody who wants to play casually on their server. I would like the option to PVP on my main character that I spend 99% of my time working on. That would be fun!
I problem i have with a PvP system in a PvE world is it cuases a ton of classes getting nerfed becuase of what it does in a pvp atmosphere but does exactly whats its suppose to do in a PvE environment, but than they change it to fit PvP better and have a good chance of breaking it for the PvE, like nerfing its damage, might lose a small stun which was great of interrupting spell casters by now doesn't and such things like this, i have no problem with PvP in fact if they make it to where it never effects the PvE enviroment i coud care less if we get a battleground, but i can see this being something hard to do. and to my honest opinion i hope VR doesn't bend the PvPers needs of nerfing clases becuase they seem to be overpowered in a pvp world and try to look for the balance that what caused tanks acting more like dps, and all kinds of messes if seen time and time again. Also it made it to where the pure dps classes were getting the nerf bat time and time again becuase they "hit" too hard and making things so much harder on the PvE people, becuase they kept on getting swindled down to nothing to where support classes were basically out dpsing them as well.
Sevens said:If it was kept as an "arena" as they had in EQ..where you could just go in that certain area and pvp Im fine with that
Once you start having ladders, and leaderboards and special PvP gear and all the other crap that comes along with all the Battlefields I have seen from other games then I, personally, would not want to see that on a PvE server.
These special items your talking about only effect the PvP spectrum of th game though so again it would do nothing for them in a pve world like they usually dont.
Sevens said:If it was kept as an "arena" as they had in EQ..where you could just go in that certain area and pvp Im fine with that
Once you start having ladders, and leaderboards and special PvP gear and all the other crap that comes along with all the Battlefields I have seen from other games then I, personally, would not want to see that on a PvE server.
Yeah it would just be a big arena that was completely cut off from the rest of the world. There might be leaderboards but it wouldn't mean anything to anyone who didn't do the battlegrounds and no one would lose out on anything if they didn't do any battlegrounds. The leaderboards would basically just be a status thing and nothing else.
There would be no PvP gear though. I totally agree that special PvP gear would ruin the game. Think of it more like a mini-game that you could totally ignore with no bad effects if you wanted to. But for those who do enjoy the odd bit of PvP it would be fun to do when they wanted to do something a bit different.
I would love an Alterac Valley battleground (where you need to fight players, kill generals and conquer fortresses), not instanced ofc, where the entire server fight each other over the period of 48-96hours, It would be the Evil Vs Good races, with no players limmit. (good races can play with evil ones and vice versa if they do a rep grind associated with this battleground faction). All the players can participate in the event, it can happen 3-5 times a month so it's "rare".
There's no gear rewards, no ratings, no ladders, maybe just titles and some Money/Exp for participating (nothing overpower or broken just a small compensation ofr the time you put in), and bigger sum of money for the winning side.
jpedrote said:I would love an Alterac Valley battleground (where you need to fight players, kill generals and conquer fortresses), not instanced ofc, where the entire server fight each other over the period of 48-96hours, It would be the Evil Vs Good races, with no players limmit. (good races can play with evil ones and vice versa if they do a rep grind associated with this battleground faction). All the players can participate in the event, it can happen 3-5 times a month so it's "rare".
There's no gear rewards, no ratings, no ladders, maybe just titles and some Money/Exp for participating (nothing overpower or broken just a small compensation ofr the time you put in), and bigger sum of money for the winning side.
This is so hard to judge and honestly without instancing it might be better to not put it in at all cept for maybe arena areas in certain locations to make it easy granted maybe not as much funa nnd such but i see them causing more problems than anything else
I loved Darkness Falls in DAOC and think an area that you can fight over is super fun.
Although I really don't think this type of gameplay would fit into the Pantheon box.
So friggin fun tho...
Kiz~
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Darkness_Falls
Zazazuu said:There are a lots of PvP-based games. Play this games and let us have our PvE orientated game. Sorry, if this sounds harsh, but it starts always with the same pvp petition....
Couldnt agree more, they have already said there will be PvP servers but now they want to cram the PvP on the PvE servers.
Riahuf22 said:This is so hard to judge and honestly without instancing it might be better to not put it in at all cept for maybe arena areas in certain locations to make it easy granted maybe not as much funa nnd such but i see them causing more problems than anything else
Oh there would be definitely only one dedicated area for this battleground, with 2 entrances, one for the evil and one for the good.
Zazazuu said:There are a lots of PvP-based games. Play this games and let us have our PvE orientated game. Sorry, if this sounds harsh, but it starts always with the same pvp petition....
Since the devs have already said there will be PvP servers this is just adding optional PvP to those who want it on PvE servers. Don't want to PvP? Fine just don't do battlegrounds. It won't hurt you or your character if you don't do battlegrounds. It is just a bit of totally optional fun for those that do.
Well, I have done battlegrounds in the past. I liked it. But the point is, as I mentioned above, it starts always with the same...
First PvP Servers
Second Battleground
Thirdly Equip
Fourthly class balance
And where does this ends? Phanthoen is the first real old school PvE since when? Thats all I am afraid of.
jpedrote said:Sevens said:Couldnt agree more, they have already said there will be PvP servers but now they want to cram the PvP on the PvE servers.
If it's optional (no gear rewards) and only in dedicated areas I see no problem with it.
I said the same thing above...EQ style arenas, but then they started talking about how the gear doesnt affect PVE and leaderboards are cool and blah blah blah. One step leads to another and next thing you know boom...Warriors suck in Battlefronts so lets nerf them! Druid / Monk combo is unbeatable in Battlegrounds so lets nerf them! Waaaaaaa I cant beat this class one on one so nerf them and make my class Uber. As soon as you start with ladders or leaderboards or PVP gear (doesnt matter if affects PVE or not) the the whining and crying will start..seen it in EQ2 when put in battles grounds. Seen it in Rift, seen it in GW2. Sorry, once you introduce a competition for something like this then becoming the best (leaderboards / ladders) or BiS geared is all that matters. Been burned by to many games introducing PvP into the PvE areas of games and it has always ended the same way. there are a million and one FPS or PVP MMOS out there and maybe only EQ left as a pure PVE game, why must they try and turn this into every other game out there...Let it be PvE. PvPers are already promised their own servers so why must you inflict the toxicity on those of us who dont want it?
@Sevens
The introduction of rated PVP ruins the game, that's certain, competitive PVP does not belong on a PVE MMO, but casual PVP has a place, and since they already confirmed there will be PVP in the game, and PVP and PVE balance will be done separately (different formulas), I see no reason for not having 1 or 2 zones destined specificaly for PVP, doesn't need to be implement on launch but it would be a cool feature down the line.
Sevens said:jpedrote said:Sevens said:Couldnt agree more, they have already said there will be PvP servers but now they want to cram the PvP on the PvE servers.
If it's optional (no gear rewards) and only in dedicated areas I see no problem with it.
I said the same thing above...EQ style arenas, but then they started talking about how the gear doesnt affect PVE and leaderboards are cool and blah blah blah. One step leads to another and next thing you know boom...Warriors suck in Battlefronts so lets nerf them! Druid / Monk combo is unbeatable in Battlegrounds so lets nerf them! Waaaaaaa I cant beat this class one on one so nerf them and make my class Uber. As soon as you start with ladders or leaderboards or PVP gear (doesnt matter if affects PVE or not) the the whining and crying will start..seen it in EQ2 when put in battles grounds. Seen it in Rift, seen it in GW2. Sorry, once you introduce a competition for something like this then becoming the best (leaderboards / ladders) or BiS geared is all that matters. Been burned by to many games introducing PvP into the PvE areas of games and it has always ended the same way. there are a million and one FPS or PVP MMOS out there and maybe only EQ left as a pure PVE game, why must they try and turn this into every other game out there...Let it be PvE. PvPers are already promised their own servers so why must you inflict the toxicity on those of us who dont want it?
The way I see it is as soon as you zone into the arena / battleground it loads your classes PvP profile which would be the same as the PvP servers. When you zone out you go back to the PvE profile so if they make changes to a class because of PvP it won't affect PvE only players since they will be using the PvE profile for their class outside of the arena / battleground.
I know in EQ1 no one even goes to these arenas and now that i see what Seven was saying i am totally against gear and that tihng of competitive pvp becuase it does effect PvE one way or another ive seen it at least a thousand times on WoW when i playing that game around WotLK, and honestly i got tired of it, being this class and instantly self heal themselves and can never die or Dk's have too many interrupts blah blah blah, and than while resulting to please the PvPers they made it to where those healers that were so clutch in saving the tanks life was failing becuase of their heals being nerfed or spell mechanics that were meant to get blocked by interrupts weren't because your class were losing interrupt abilities left and right. It's not only WoW that did this but like Every single game after EQ cradled to the PvPers to make it "balanced".
Which caused Tanks to do an insane amount of DPS, DPS get nerfed so they can be more like support classes, Supporter classes increase in damage and heal for less so they could possibly kill a dpser but not heal through many hits due to PvPers constantly complaiing ever saying they heal for too much and are hard to kill or that wizard nukes to hard and i cant get near him without taking a ton of damage, HELLO that what happens he's a wizard he's suppose to be nuking for huge amounts of damage! or a tank so like i cant kill a DPSer by my self, well your not suppose to be able to your a high health, high midigation, with slight stuns and such to make it to where the dpser cant get away so the team behind you can kill him, thats your job almost like in a PvE strat but in a PvP enviroment.
Riahuf22 said:I know in EQ1 no one even goes to these arenas and now that i see what Seven was saying i am totally against gear and that tihng of competitive pvp becuase it does effect PvE one way or another ive seen it at least a thousand times on WoW when i playing that game around WotLK, and honestly i got tired of it, being this class and instantly self heal themselves and can never die or Dk's have too many interrupts blah blah blah, and than while resulting to please the PvPers they made it to where those healers that were so clutch in saving the tanks life was failing becuase of their heals being nerfed or spell mechanics that were meant to get blocked by interrupts weren't because your class were losing interrupt abilities left and right. It's not only WoW that did this but like Every single game after EQ cradled to the PvPers to make it "balanced".
Which caused Tanks to do an insane amount of DPS, DPS get nerfed so they can be more like support classes, Supporter classes increase in damage and heal for less so they could possibly kill a dpser but not heal through many hits due to PvPers constantly complaiing ever saying they heal for too much and are hard to kill or that wizard nukes to hard and i cant get near him without taking a ton of damage, HELLO that what happens he's a wizard he's suppose to be nuking for huge amounts of damage! or a tank so like i cant kill a DPSer by my self, well your not suppose to be able to your a high health, high midigation, with slight stuns and such to make it to where the dpser cant get away so the team behind you can kill him, thats your job almost like in a PvE strat but in a PvP enviroment.
I understand what you are saying but the devs have already said that any changes they make to the game to fix PvP will have no effect on PvE servers. If they used my idea that when you zone into a battleground it loads PvP server rules and then when you zone out it loads PvE rules it keeps everyone happy. PvP is balenced in battlegrounds and PvP servers and PvE is unaffected in PvE servers when players are not in a battleground. Everyone wins.
Cromulent said:Sevens said:If it was kept as an "arena" as they had in EQ..where you could just go in that certain area and pvp Im fine with that
Once you start having ladders, and leaderboards and special PvP gear and all the other crap that comes along with all the Battlefields I have seen from other games then I, personally, would not want to see that on a PvE server.
Yeah it would just be a big arena that was completely cut off from the rest of the world. There might be leaderboards but it wouldn't mean anything to anyone who didn't do the battlegrounds and no one would lose out on anything if they didn't do any battlegrounds. The leaderboards would basically just be a status thing and nothing else.
There would be no PvP gear though. I totally agree that special PvP gear would ruin the game. Think of it more like a mini-game that you could totally ignore with no bad effects if you wanted to. But for those who do enjoy the odd bit of PvP it would be fun to do when they wanted to do something a bit different.
So basically an Arean ala EQ1?
Nothing wrong with that
Just no gear, ladders, leader boards or **** like that
You and your buddy want to fight, go to the arena and have at it.
Want to have a guild FFA? hey go to the arena and tear it up
I just dont want the competitive aspects of PVP creeeping into the PVE game
And for the love of all that is sacred to Pantheon
No Money and or Xp for doing them! never ever never!
Sevens said:Cromulent said:Sevens said:If it was kept as an "arena" as they had in EQ..where you could just go in that certain area and pvp Im fine with that
Once you start having ladders, and leaderboards and special PvP gear and all the other crap that comes along with all the Battlefields I have seen from other games then I, personally, would not want to see that on a PvE server.
Yeah it would just be a big arena that was completely cut off from the rest of the world. There might be leaderboards but it wouldn't mean anything to anyone who didn't do the battlegrounds and no one would lose out on anything if they didn't do any battlegrounds. The leaderboards would basically just be a status thing and nothing else.
There would be no PvP gear though. I totally agree that special PvP gear would ruin the game. Think of it more like a mini-game that you could totally ignore with no bad effects if you wanted to. But for those who do enjoy the odd bit of PvP it would be fun to do when they wanted to do something a bit different.
So basically an Arean ala EQ1?
Nothing wrong with that
Just no gear, ladders, leader boards or **** like that
You and your buddy want to fight, go to the arena and have at it.
Want to have a guild FFA? hey go to the arena and tear it up
I just dont want the competitive aspects of PVP creeeping into the PVE game
And for the love of all that is sacred to Pantheon
No Money and or Xp for doing them! never ever never!
It is a little bit different from the arenas in EQ. It would be a separate PvP zone that you would explicitly have to go to in order to PvP and there would be a team system where you would be placed in a team (although 1 vs 1 PvP could also work if that was more your thing) to fight it out with people.
I don't see a leaderboard causing any problems. It would just be a status thing. Some people like to compete to see who is the best and it wouldn't take anything away from the PvE people. I agree on the money and experience thing though. I don't think you should get any money or experience for PvP in battlegrounds.