Think its best if either one server is completely pvp or completely pve
At the servers where pvp is enabled they can have real battlegrounds taking place anywhere ,based on present-day/current conflicts between the different alignments.
(At pve servers these conflicts would be present too,the only difference would be that pvp remains disabled)
I believe it is very important to implement it in the game as part of the engaging world.
Not as some kind of attached instances that segregates everyone in smaller pocket communities
So I'm not against the idea of battlegrounds on itself (as long as its some kind of sandbox battlegrounds in the open world ) but I am against the desired instanced battlegrounds.
Just when there is rejoice because they got rid of instanced dungeons lol
You have to think about the community as a whole when suggesting things like this
It is comparable with the demands consumers make for foods nowadays: some want it gluten free,without butter,dairy products fish,flesh,nuts,fruits,vegetables etc
If we had to take them all into account it would be impossible to cook one decent meal
Just like how it has been hard to create one decent MMO the past few years.
So just have servers either totally pvp or totally pve,those are like the labels that are there to warn consumers about which ingredients the server *contains* (pve or pvp)
Leave the rest up to them.It can become a disease to please
Fluffy said:Think its best if either one server is completely pvp or completely pve
At the servers where pvp is enabled they can have real battlegrounds taking place anywhere ,based on present-day/current conflicts between the different alignments.
(At pve servers these conflicts would be present too,the only difference would be that pvp remains disabled)
I believe it is very important to implement it in the game as part of the engaging world.
Not as some kind of attached instances that segregates everyone in smaller pocket communities
So I'm not against the idea of battlegrounds on itself (as long as its some kind of sandbox battlegrounds in the world itself) but I am against the desired instanced battlegrounds.
Just when there is rejoice because they got rid of instanced dungeons lol
You have to think about the community as a whole when suggesting things like this
It is comparable with the demands consumers make for nowadays: some want it gluten free,without butter,dairy products fish,flesh,nuts,fruits,vegetables etc
If we had to take them all into account it would be impossible to cook one decent meal
Just like how it has been hard to create one decent MMO the past few years.
So just have servers either totally pvp or totally pve,those are like the labels that are there to warn consumers about which ingredients the server *contains* (pve or pvp)
Leave the rest up to them.It can become a disease to please
Understood. But since this would be a small thing that people do in their free time so to speak because they wouldn't get any money or experience they would still need to play the game with the rest of the community and the instances would be on the same server so people would still be playing with other people from the same server. It is not like a server wide system where you end up playing with people you would never meet again.
It is just a little bit of fun to do on the side when you want something else to do. Some people just want to do a little bit of PvP without commiting to full open world PvP which would be found on the PvP servers.
I am against , if someone wants to play PVP .. there is a PVP server.
Instanced PVP in the WoW form of arena, destroys the population on PVP servers (why play red , when I can blue and just arena for pvp) and damages open world PVP in general on red servers.
The above even more so if there is "rewards" involved ... spam cycle arena battles for gear is not true progression IMO.
Also it is counter productive to a game that is supposed to be based on a open world concept.
I actually don't mind private PvP. Even if there's rewards such as gear and stuff as long as the gear isn't obviously better than PvE rewards. But tbh, for me, I think battleground-style PvP (or even PvP in general) is more fun with action combat systems. I never really found auto-attack PvP to be very exciting. So I'd always prefer PvE. But I think PvP is cool as long as it doesn't affect me when I don't want it to.
That said, that's just my opinion - they have made it very clear that there will only be PvP on PvP servers.
My original thought was why not have some limited pvp on non-pvp servers? It doesn't hurt anyone and gives people that like pvp but don't want to be ganked every 20 feet as they try to quest or explore an outlet.
If there aren't any pvp servers that still makes sense to me. If there is a pvp server I think Xxar makes a good point - about harming the population there.
Of course we have no idea which of numerous possible pvp rulesets VR would use on such a hypothetical server. Nor would they be limited to one approach.
Most or all of us have seen pve servers in other games where certain zones are set aside for pvp. Not instances, not battlegrounds, full zones. Who is to say that a pvp server could not have zones set aside for pve or a different form of pvp. As in unlimited free for all on a server whose basic ruleset prevented gray ganking and had some form of honor system. In an attempt to expand population by catering to pvp players that were uncomfortable with the basic ruleset but didn't want a pure pve server.
I hope they spend as little time on PVP as possible. Balancing PVP ruins PVE balance and vice versa. I would rather the dev team be spending time on PVE mechanics than deciding what resist rates will be in PVP and how damage mitigation will work and how DOTs will work and how fear and charm durations should be different etc etc etc etc.
Cromulent said:Understood. But since this would be a small thing that people do in their free time so to speak because they wouldn't get any money or experience they would still need to play the game with the rest of the community and the instances would be on the same server so people would still be playing with other people from the same server. It is not like a server wide system where you end up playing with people you would never meet again.
It is just a little bit of fun to do on the side when you want something else to do. Some people just want to do a little bit of PvP without commiting to full open world PvP which would be found on the PvP servers.
Another complaint about the recent games that have come out is that they are bland.
If you want a rich PVP experience and then cut the proof of the ongoing conflict out by instancing the battlegrounds (as private pvp).I think that might be part of why pvp and ultimately gameplay turns out bland.It tries to please everyone and pleases none(some pvp players are against flagging too ,but pvp is topic that can turn lengthy quickly so I won't elaborate on it)
If battlegrounds would be part of the open world conflict(no instanced battlegrounds but taking place where the clashes of alignements happen)
it adds variety to battleground;any place can turn into battleground ,you'd get a much deeper sense of conflict when other players are getting involved.
The instanced battlegrounds just cant deliver on that type of quality.
When you commit to PVP you have to do it all the way I think
and the people you meet on your server/the reputation you make will play a huge role too this way
Aiming for a solid game where it all connects ,reputation has real weight,your actions having lasting consequences
As much as I loved the battlegrounds in WoW, WoW was a different type of game and I don't feel there's a place for battlegrounds in this type of game. EQ's Arena zone, or the small areas in each home city that had pvp active in EQ is all I hope to see on Pantheon's pve servers.
AgentGenX said:As much as I loved the battlegrounds in WoW, WoW was a different type of game and I don't feel there's a place for battlegrounds in this type of game. EQ's Arena zone, or the small areas in each home city that had pvp active in EQ is all I hope to see on Pantheon's pve servers.
Players could even organize tournaments, Conan the Barbarian style, with payouts and profits.
But I wouldn't want to be on a PvP server because there are other times I don't want to have to worry about PvP.
Wow how thoughtfull of you. PVP is good when you want it but no good when you don't want it. What about the people you pvp against when your in the mood? Maybe they don't feel like it at the moment.
Go play on a pvp server if thats what you want and kill away. Leave the pve servers to the ones that do not want all that crap in thier game.
SEPARATE SERVERS IS THE BEST WAY. THERE SHOULD BE NO TYPES OF PVP ON PVE SERVERS.
EQ1 had the arena and consentual dueling but you could always just ignore duel tells.
PVP on PVP servers . Leaderboards on PVP servers. It absolutely changes the makeup and tone of the game.
EQ with more or less no PVP on PVE servers worked well in that regard.
It takes seconds to log into a PVP server and have at it.
While not an absolute clone I hope that is one of the things they take away from classic EQ .It worked for the crowd they are aiming at.
As long as PvP is not being balanced along side PvE I could care less about battlegrounds. Trying to balance PvP and PvE together is almost impossible.
If they handle it like EQ, where balance was done on PvE and PvP was "whatever" and some things like mez and charm just didn't work in PvP then I don't have an issue with it.
Isaya said:But I wouldn't want to be on a PvP server because there are other times I don't want to have to worry about PvP.
Wow how thoughtfull of you. PVP is good when you want it but no good when you don't want it. What about the people you pvp against when your in the mood? Maybe they don't feel like it at the moment.
Go play on a pvp server if thats what you want and kill away. Leave the pve servers to the ones that do not want all that crap in thier game.
SEPARATE SERVERS IS THE BEST WAY. THERE SHOULD BE NO TYPES OF PVP ON PVE SERVERS.
EQ1 had the arena and consentual dueling but you could always just ignore duel tells.
PVP servers get to enjoy PVE content on their servers, but PVE servers should be blocked from all forms of PVP? I'm sorry but that makes zero sense to me. Traditionally, PVP servers are labeled "PVP" because they embrace full open world PVP through out the entire game. WoW had both PVE and PVP on every server ... the only difference between PVP is that you were always flagged for it. Even on PVE servers, you could still flag yourself for PVP if that was something you were in the mood for. Why shouldn't we have an option like this? If it's something you don't want to participate in, you can permanently unflag yourself for it. I'm not saying I want it to be exactly like that, but having some sort of battle ground or arena functionality in place would be awesome. I would enjoy PVP very much but I wouldn't want to level on a PVP server. Should I really have to choose? If that's the case ... so be it, but that's putting a limit on the potential "fun factor" for many players. If your best argument against PVP on a PVE server is shouting in caps and telling me that something that plenty of people would have an interest in is "crap" then you should probably read more into the thread.
PVP could be 100% optional, even on a PVE server. If you wanted to play the game for 10 years and literally never do a single session of PVP, that would be entirely possible. What's wrong with player empowerment and flexibility? VR has already stated many times that they don't want tons of different ruleset servers. Should we have a PVE server that has limited/controlled PVP? I don't think so ... what is the point? Why can't it just be implemented in a way where it's 100% optional on PVE servers? Since you would have the ability to completely avoid it, how would others enjoying PVP have any impact on your gameplay? Forcing people who enjoy "some" PVP to play exclusively on PVP servers will only segregate our population and I think this argument has been blown way out of proportion. Many games have implemented controlled PVP in one form or another and it's something that many players enjoy. It's not a deal breaker for me either way but I am definitely fascinated by the idea of having battle grounds/arenas, as well as having leaderboards for them. I also like the idea of allowing players the option to "flag" themself for PVP on a PVE server. Player empowerment and flexibility is always a good thing!
oneADseven said:Isaya said:But I wouldn't want to be on a PvP server because there are other times I don't want to have to worry about PvP.
Wow how thoughtfull of you. PVP is good when you want it but no good when you don't want it. What about the people you pvp against when your in the mood? Maybe they don't feel like it at the moment.
Go play on a pvp server if thats what you want and kill away. Leave the pve servers to the ones that do not want all that crap in thier game.
SEPARATE SERVERS IS THE BEST WAY. THERE SHOULD BE NO TYPES OF PVP ON PVE SERVERS.
EQ1 had the arena and consentual dueling but you could always just ignore duel tells.
PVP servers get to enjoy PVE content on their servers, but PVE servers should be blocked from all forms of PVP? I'm sorry but that makes zero sense to me. Traditionally, PVP servers are labeled "PVP" because they embrace full open world PVP through out the entire game. WoW had both PVE and PVP on every server ... the only difference between PVP is that you were always flagged for it. Even on PVE servers, you could still flag yourself for PVP if that was something you were in the mood for. Why shouldn't we have an option like this? If it's something you don't want to participate in, you can permanently unflag yourself for it. I'm not saying I want it to be exactly like that, but having some sort of battle ground or arena functionality in place would be awesome. I would enjoy PVP very much but I wouldn't want to level on a PVP server. Should I really have to choose? If that's the case ... so be it, but that's putting a limit on the potential "fun factor" for many players. If your best argument against PVP on a PVE server is shouting in caps and telling me that something that plenty of people would have an interest in is "crap" then you should probably read more into the thread.
PVP could be 100% optional, even on a PVE server. If you wanted to play the game for 10 years and literally never do a single session of PVP, that would be entirely possible. What's wrong with player empowerment and flexibility? VR has already stated many times that they don't want tons of different ruleset servers. Should we have a PVE server that has limited/controlled PVP? I don't think so ... what is the point? Why can't it just be implemented in a way where it's 100% optional on PVE servers? Since you would have the ability to completely avoid it, how would others enjoying PVP have any impact on your gameplay? Forcing people who enjoy "some" PVP to play exclusively on PVP servers will only segregate our population and I think this argument has been blown way out of proportion. Many games have implemented controlled PVP in one form or another and it's something that many players enjoy. It's not a deal breaker for me either way but I am definitely fascinated by the idea of having battle grounds/arenas, as well as having leaderboards for them. I also like the idea of allowing players the option to "flag" themself for PVP on a PVE server. Player empowerment and flexibility is always a good thing!
pvp servers have pve cntent as well as pvp. Your words not mine.Play on pvp servers and play the pve content. Nothing wrong with that. But getting flagged for pvp because you throw a heal or buff on someone flagged for pvp is just wrong. And it does happen.
I do not want a pvp only server where all you do is fight other players. As you say the pvp servers have the same pve content. I just think that pvp should stay on the pvp servers and let the people who do not want it to have an enjoyable server where they do not have to worry about gankers and other low lifes from ruining it for them. See - no caps
I would love to have some battlegrounds, instanced or not, for PvE servers at least. I don't like PvP servers because I like being able to choose when I engage in PvP and when I can sit back without worry, but I love me some balanced PvP battles and different objective based PvP modes. I very much enjoyed the DAoC battlegrounds as well as the WoW and Wildstar ones. I think even a single zone with level based shards and some form of teams would be great, could even be tied into the game with two factions at war in which the player can choose a side to gain rep with.
They announced during the stream today that it's quite possible we will see some sort of arena or duel option on PVE servers. This isn't exactly a battleground per se, but still offers the controlled PVP setting that myself and others were asking about. I would still be very interested in the possibility of being able to flag/unflag for PVP in the open world on PVE servers but understand if that's not feasible. Either way, I'm still happy to hear that they are at least considering an arena/duel type system on PVE servers to allow those of us who enjoy limited PVP sessions while still playing on a PVE server.
Sevens said:Please dear god no, Keep the PvP on the pvp servers.
If you dont want to PvP all the time its simple, have a toon on the PvP server for when you want to PvP and one on the PvE server for when you dont.
I'm not sure where I saw it , I think it was on the stream today. It was said they will be keeping the PVE and PVP separate. If they have the mass to do it they can also have PVE servers with PVP components.
Having an arena that's just there like in Lake Rathe or Freeport is no biggy. Players can also duel.
Riahuf22 said:I problem i have with a PvP system in a PvE world is it cuases a ton of classes getting nerfed becuase of what it does in a pvp atmosphere but does exactly whats its suppose to do in a PvE environment, but than they change it to fit PvP better and have a good chance of breaking it for the PvE, like nerfing its damage, might lose a small stun which was great of interrupting spell casters by now doesn't and such things like this, i have no problem with PvP in fact if they make it to where it never effects the PvE enviroment i coud care less if we get a battleground, but i can see this being something hard to do. and to my honest opinion i hope VR doesn't bend the PvPers needs of nerfing clases becuase they seem to be overpowered in a pvp world and try to look for the balance that what caused tanks acting more like dps, and all kinds of messes if seen time and time again. Also it made it to where the pure dps classes were getting the nerf bat time and time again becuase they "hit" too hard and making things so much harder on the PvE people, becuase they kept on getting swindled down to nothing to where support classes were basically out dpsing them as well.
Someone who doesn't watch the streams here.
Please watch the latest stream and correct your concerns. Classes can be altered via pvp that do not effect pve.
In regards to the OP,
I'd like to see more elaborate Arena's or BGs. So long as they don't require special armor and resist gear. Likely my guild won't roll on a pvp server, so it would be nice to have competitive pvp. I know others are in this boat and there are others who understand that changes can be made that effect player vs player damage, spell timers, etc. that do not effect PvE. So I think this is doable as a way to not just throw half arsed arenas in cities. Make it a spectacle. Make it a BG sized arena if need be. It could even be styled as a gladiatoral system that can be viewed.
There are a lot of opportunities that can be had if people would keep their small hateful views about WoW in check.
Only concern is having to farm out pvp specific gear. Blah, nope, won't bother.
Rogue said:Riahuf22 said:I problem i have with a PvP system in a PvE world is it cuases a ton of classes getting nerfed becuase of what it does in a pvp atmosphere but does exactly whats its suppose to do in a PvE environment, but than they change it to fit PvP better and have a good chance of breaking it for the PvE, like nerfing its damage, might lose a small stun which was great of interrupting spell casters by now doesn't and such things like this, i have no problem with PvP in fact if they make it to where it never effects the PvE enviroment i coud care less if we get a battleground, but i can see this being something hard to do. and to my honest opinion i hope VR doesn't bend the PvPers needs of nerfing clases becuase they seem to be overpowered in a pvp world and try to look for the balance that what caused tanks acting more like dps, and all kinds of messes if seen time and time again. Also it made it to where the pure dps classes were getting the nerf bat time and time again becuase they "hit" too hard and making things so much harder on the PvE people, becuase they kept on getting swindled down to nothing to where support classes were basically out dpsing them as well.
Someone who doesn't watch the streams here.Please watch the latest stream and correct your concerns. Classes can be altered via pvp that do not effect pve.
In regards to the OP,
I'd like to see more elaborate Arena's or BGs. So long as they don't require special armor and resist gear. Likely my guild won't roll on a pvp server, so it would be nice to have competitive pvp. I know others are in this boat and there are others who understand that changes can be made that effect player vs player damage, spell timers, etc. that do not effect PvE. So I think this is doable as a way to not just throw half arsed arenas in cities. Make it a spectacle. Make it a BG sized arena if need be. It could even be styled as a gladiatoral system that can be viewed.
There are a lot of opportunities that can be had if people would keep their small hateful views about WoW in check.
Only concern is having to farm out pvp specific gear. Blah, nope, won't bother.
I posted this before the stream came out