You could be right, but Kilsin exact word's are
"If you can get back to your corpse and loot it then you will recover a portion of the exp or all of it. Or something like that, but I think if you release then you release that xp"
He does not say when "you get back to your corpse" he says if
this "get back to your corpse" would have to be done after a respawn of your necked character... this is not after this "release" he's talking about. You respawn necked for the corpse run...
Kils... we know your reading this... is my interpretation of what you said wrong?
Zorkon said:
OK at the 57.20 min mark in the Kilsin interview Braun ask a question about corpse runs, the answer is something to the effect of...
If you release you lose the experience if you get back to your corpse you regaine it. (See the interview for the exact quote)
to me the word "release" would mean you can easly bypass the corpse run. To me (and I'm not alone) the experience loss is trivial so this, EXPECIALLY compiled with no level loss means corps runs are not required, they are optional to anybody not in a hurry to end game.
I think you are misunderstanding how things work. Granted, Kils didn't state it very precisely so I think that is where there is some confusion.
Kils states "I'm not completely sure, but I'm pretty sure we are going with, if you can get back to your corpse and loot it you will recover a portion of your exp or all of it. Or something like that. But I think if you release then you release that exp"
You have to realize that when you are dead you can't do anything. You are basically looking down at your corpse. You have 2 options at that point. Release and lose the exp, or get a rez which likely gives some exp back. Maybe after you rez looting your corpse will also return a small amount of exp? Unsure.
Maybe Kils could clarify his statement for us?
I can guarantee you that if you release, instead of getting a rez, and run back and loot your corpse you aren't going to gain all of the exp back you just lost by looting your corpse like you seem to think.
Also, I know it was already mentioned, but why would you think that people wouldn't have to recover their gear? Do you not realize that when you die you are naked and your gear is on your corpse?
I'm pretty sure the starting city teleport comment was in that interview as well..
Please let us know the time that you heard that because I just watched it for a second time and heard no such thing.
Edit: I guess everyone is on the same page about pointing out the misunderstandings. I'll leave it alone since multiple people have had very similar responses.
Starting city teleport, AFAIK, was something they talked about years ago (2014) for the old Pantheon that was scrapped. From Brad's blog:
"Allow people to teleport from city to city to keep friends together. No more "your friend chooses one race, you choose the other, and it's relatively impossible for you to get together".
Also considering no KOS in the 2-4 cities. Basically, you can be a good ogre or an evil human, but most of the playable races got together long ago to stand strong against the god-kings and the newer NPC races that have appeared on Terminus due to the planar collisions."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/blogs/151/115/zone-layout-zone-types
The general viewpoint from the devs is that this is not intended to be, nor considered a "wow-killer", rather a return to old style MMO play with harsh penalites and encouraging group play catering to a "niche" crowd (Kind of like the original Mercedez Benz business model). I haven't heard anything more specific on how they will handle corpse retrieval and how the penalty is doled out.
So keep your main on because we're doing stuff and you're on the same time I am! Dont leave me for an alt! lets do stuff! leave your alt! we're on a roll!
philo said:Zorkon said:
OK at the 57.20 min mark in the Kilsin interview Braun ask a question about corpse runs, the answer is something to the effect of...
If you release you lose the experience if you get back to your corpse you regaine it. (See the interview for the exact quote)
to me the word "release" would mean you can easly bypass the corpse run. To me (and I'm not alone) the experience loss is trivial so this, EXPECIALLY compiled with no level loss means corps runs are not required, they are optional to anybody not in a hurry to end game.
I think you are misunderstanding how things work. Granted, Kils didn't state it very precisely so I think that is where there is some confusion.
Kils states "I'm not completely sure, but I'm pretty sure we are going with, if you can get back to your corpse and loot it you will recover a portion of your exp or all of it. Or something like that. But I think if you release then you release that exp"
You have to realize that when you are dead you can't do anything. You are basically looking down at your corpse. You have 2 options at that point. Release and lose the exp, or get a rez which likely gives some exp back. Maybe after you rez looting your corpse will also return a small amount of exp? Unsure.
Maybe Kils could clarify his statement for us?
I can guarantee you that if you release, instead of getting a rez, and run back and loot your corpse you aren't going to gain all of the exp back you just lost by looting your corpse like you seem to think.
Also, I know it was already mentioned, but why would you think that people wouldn't have to recover their gear? Do you not realize that when you die you are naked and your gear is on your corpse?
I'm pretty sure the starting city teleport comment was in that interview as well..
Please let us know the time that you heard that because I just watched it for a second time and heard no such thing.
Edit: I guess everyone is on the same page about pointing out the misunderstandings. I'll leave it alone since multiple people have had very similar responses.
1:19:00 into the stream
And it's still out for debate WHO is misunderstanding.
Could be me, yes
Zorkon said:You could be right, but Kilsin exact word's are
"If you can get back to your corpse and loot it then you will recover a portion of the exp or all of it. Or something like that, but I think if you release then you release that xp"
He does not say when "you get back to your corpse" he says if
this "get back to your corpse" would have to be done after a respawn of your necked character... this is not after this "release" he's talking about. You respawn necked for the corpse run...
Kils... we know your reading this... is my interpretation of what you said wrong?
This is an example, 100%, of why developers don't like talking to people. Every last word will be evaluated, measured, and misconstrued.
He is the community manager that does not work in the code or design the game. I would think it's more likely he simply misspoke while reciting from memory, than the game being a complete sham and we’re all being fooled. Think about it.
@Zorkon Ah I see. Yes there will be portals on each continent that will take you to another continent. That was in an old stream I believe. I am under the impression that they are the pink swirly looking things on the atlas. They are not starting city portals. The starting city portals is an outdated idea that I believe has been reassessed. (Kils mentions it is old).
Maybe someone who is better than I am about digging things up will post the most recent info on the outdated starting city portals .
philo said:@Zorkon Ah I see. Yes there will be portals on each continent that will take you to another continent. That was in an old stream I believe. I am under the impression that they are the pink swirly looking things on the atlas. The starting city portals is an outdated idea that I believe has been reassessed. (Kils mentions it is old).
Maybe someone who is better than I am about digging things up will post the most recent info on the outdated starting city portals .
That stream was this month, linked in the forums by Kilsin himself
And in the Stream Kilsin describes it and then says "so far that's the plan"
To ME that means "so far that's the plan" what does that mean to you guys? I don't understand why I'm being attacked so badly on just bringing up what I've heard... I have shown all my sources. They are all there for you to freely see for yourselfs
But it's not what you all want to hear so I must be wrong.
Show me where the Devs have directly denied these things. And not that they said "no fast travel" or "death penalty will hurt" those are all up for interpretation as to WHAT is fast travel or WHAT hurts as a death penalty.
Will your gear stay on your corpse indefinitely if you don't go get it? (not likely)
Will players be able to port from City to city? (Kilsin just this month said they could... except it or part of it is broken right now)
Kilsin could be slightly more clear in that interview as you have pointed out. You have to be able to take what we already know and tie it in to what he is saying. We get you are coming from the point of view of not being up to date on some of the more current info and I think that is why there is confusion.
Hopefully Kils will chime in and clarify.
Brad, Joppa, and a few others have stated that death mechanics (death penalty and corpse runs) will be something evaluated and tuned in Alpha and Beta. Right now it is exp loss and item corpse run on release; it is unclear what happens when you are rezzed as ressurection spells are something recently added with the level increases in characters in the more recent content streams. Brad and maybe a few others had also said that they plan on evaluating different rule sets for launch which means we may see more severe or less severe death mechanics.
Jumping in conversation, I'd be really sad if there is no content around faction work toward other cities, not to be KoS as an example. I can see why, and why it's more simple to do it that way, but that wouldn't be super immersive.
The same about portals from city to city, pretty game and distance breaking. Better to let players reach themselves in their 20's trought a few zones of varying level range, like it was the case in EQ (you could cross from odus to fayder around lvl 20 by beeing carefull enough).
About the wow clone thing. No game will be good enough as wow is in opening the MMO market to non MMO players. History, opportunity and a solid playerbase make this sole idea as stupid as every wow clone that sprouted since it was a succes, because they hope to capitalize on sedentarized players to flourish their game, hopelessly.
Pantheon is intended to be a MMO tied to MMO players, not aming for the 10M subs Wow had during Wotlk era that made every game publisher drool over the money it could bring them, only to end in failure.
philo said:@Zorkon I'm sure most of us already watched that interview. Unsure why you came across with such a different interpretation than others did. I just watched the relevant part with Kils again thinking that I might have missed something.
There wasn't any new info in that interview that someone following the game closely didn't already know. It wasn't stated that 1) there will be no real death penalty. 2) There will be no need for a corpse run or 3) there will be fast travel between starting cities like you stated above.
There have been multiple posts you have made that seem to have a twisted perspective of the game Zork (not just this thread). Maybe you can share specifics links to where you are getting your info?
To Clarify:
1) There will be a real death penalty, I just can't go into specifics yet and we will tweak during testing.
2) There will be a need for corpse runs if you release from your corpse (most likely when you die, you can lay there for a limited time in case you can receive a rez, if not you respawn and have to make your way back) again, still a WIP with testing needed.
3) We have said for years that we ware looking at putting a portal on each continent to allow travel between them, along with boats etc. but we want travel to be meaningful and still a challenge and something you should prepare for with long journeys.
I hope that helps clear it up folks :)
Thanks Kils, I believe it was mentioned a year or 2 back that they were, but I am bad at digging up old info. Are the pink swirly areas on the atlas the portals?
Everything I read about Pantheon so far is basically moving away from what WoW is... at least that is my impression (and why I am following this game) based on the FAQ, devblogs and other tidbits of information I have gleamed while looking into the game.
They very specifically said they don't want to make the game appeal to everyone (being mainstream), but rather focus on a certain niche of players which is those who want group-based play with specific focus on PvE, where the PvE part of it will not only include NPC's but also the weather and climate.
Everquest (at least back in the original days) was a game that was more aimed at players who already had an interest in the dungeons and dragon styled fantasty realm setting as well as roleplaying. It might seem odd these days but in the original Everquest days there was a huge amount of players who actively did roleplay their characters. Dwarves 'acted' like dwarves, and dark elves 'acted' like dark elves. It was actually very immersive and I enjoyed it a lot back then. However, that whole roleplaying aspect got more and more watered down as the success of Everquest increased and more players joined.
Then along came World of Warcraft with a game that was fairly easy to jump into and play and with a colorful artstyle that appealed to a lot of people. They aimed at a much larger demographic of players and that is exactly what happened. A lot of players gravitated towards WoW since it was easier to play and understand than many of the contemporary MMO's at the time, plus many already knew the Warcraft games from before hand.
But again... from everything I have read about Pantheon they are not trying to shoot for a huge demographic and cater to everyone. They aren't trying to include 'something for everyone'. Instead they are very open about their goals for the game and the fact that it WILL be harder than the average MMO on the market today.
Right now there is really no MMO that fulfils my own interest when it comes to the MMOs.
I want group play.
I want to do dungeon crawls.
I want enough time in the game for players to communicate with eachother.
I don't want PvP at all, and never did for MMO's (I get my PvP 'fix' in PvP based games like Battlefield, EVE Online.. heck, even a game of Chess).
But modern MMO's today come with mandatory PvP at end game (e.g. black desert), with very little group focused gameplay (e.g. Elder scrolls online where you can solo all the time), and players rarely ever interact with eachother at all (because of auction houses where you buy/sell through an interface) and since everything can be soloed anyhow there is no need to talk to others to group up and play together.
At least Pantheon is saying NO to a lot of things, like mandatory PvP, like soloing being the main part of the game, like there being no real consequences for death.
Basically it comes down to: If you don't like PvE, prefer to just solo all day, hate for death to have consequences and so on then... well... I guess Pantheon is not the game for you. Just like Dark Souls is not the game for people who just wants to breeze their way through the content.
It's still pre-alpha and things like how much fast travel there is and how harsh the death penalty is are obviously prime candidates for tuning over the coming months and years.
Given the stage of development and the kind of game tenets and the continual comments from devs about challenge and a return to old-school values, it's a little ridiculous to suggest Pantheon is already somehow going the same way WoW did and it's hardly surprising people react when the suggestion is made or implied.
To give my view on the particular arguments in this thread: -
1) It may well have been said in a stream that getting your corpse will return some or all of your XP loss. That could indeed be less harsh than I'd like it. Other games have done it that way, but since you really have little option than to retrieve your gear, returning XP for doing it does seem trivial. I don't think you should regain XP unless you get a resurrection organised, by whatever means.
2) "Releasing" definitely just means "respawning". It's a term that has been used a lot in the streams. What the mechanic actually *means* in Pantheon is, of course, still in pre-alpha flux. In EQ, you can still get a resurrection after you've 'released' (you are infact auto-released back to an often very distant bind point) until you've looted your very last item and your corpse disappears. From what Kilsin has said above, they may be looking at something more harsh where if you don't get a combat rez real quick you are forced to release and that your options are more limited after that than in EQ regards resurrection.
*shrug* It's pre-alpha. Whatever they come up with it may be more harsh and may not be EQ-like at all.
3) A portal in each home city would be way less instant travel than in EQ and would indeed relieve the issue of having to choose the same race if you want to play with a friend. I'm facing this very issue in EQ P99 at the moment and it's painful. Basically myself and a friend had to play seperately for many many hours until my troll was high enough level to survive the run to east commons and then I would have to make the very long run back home occassionally to pick up spells and get trained as there was no shaman trainer in any nearer evil city.
You can even both choose a 'good' race and end up on different continents with several hours to get together and then find you have no way to get training except to go home, depending on your class.
Fun? *shrug* Like a lot of old-school mechanics, the appeal has a lot to do with nostalgia, I think. Whilst I don't particularly want good and evil, troll and elf all happily, and in defiance of all lore, living together, I'd like to see it be less irritating than in EQ.
There should perhaps be continental portals *nearish* to each major city and secret bases of evil/good *nearish* opposing racial hubs. I'd still like to see faction questing possible and needed for those wanting to get close to opposing faction populations. I like a good grind, but the pain and the grind in EQ related to evil/good factions and religeons was prohibitively hard for 99.99% of players such that, if you chose Iksar, say, you were simply limited to only ever seeing one city and staying *well* clear of any other sentient life forms.
disposalist said:3) A portal in each home city would be way less instant travel than in EQ and would indeed relieve the issue of having to choose the same race if you want to play with a friend. I'm facing this very issue in EQ P99 at the moment and it's painful. Basically myself and a friend had to play seperately for many many hours until my troll was high enough level to survive the run to east commons and then I would have to make the very long run back home occassionally to pick up spells and get trained as there was no shaman trainer in any nearer evil city.
Call me old-school, but is Grobb to Commons really that long of a run? I mean, sure it takes a few minutes to run (without SoW anyways) through Innothule to South Ro, and then through Oasis of Marr and North Ro (not sure if Nro and OoM is merged in p99 like in current EQ), but I did that run many times with my Troll Shadowknight and never felt like it was a long run. Certainly many ways to get stomped along the way at low level, but still.
Then again, I might just be old-school and a bit used to running around in the game to get from place to place.
Also the spell limitation might be an issue, but for that I simply stocked up some spells each time for the next few levels (e.g. next 4-5 levels ahead of me).
Anyways... made me a bit curious to see this run mentioned as a long one so wanted to comment (and kinda poke at the issue and see if others also see this as a long run). It does lead into a Pantheon related question which is: What will a 'long run' be in Pantheon? Is a 5 minute run going to be the 'long distances', or is it going to be 30 minute runs? What will be the definition of a 'long run' in Pantheon?
Ghroznak said:disposalist said:3) A portal in each home city would be way less instant travel than in EQ and would indeed relieve the issue of having to choose the same race if you want to play with a friend. I'm facing this very issue in EQ P99 at the moment and it's painful. Basically myself and a friend had to play seperately for many many hours until my troll was high enough level to survive the run to east commons and then I would have to make the very long run back home occassionally to pick up spells and get trained as there was no shaman trainer in any nearer evil city.
Call me old-school, but is Grobb to Commons really that long of a run? I mean, sure it takes a few minutes to run (without SoW anyways) through Innothule to South Ro, and then through Oasis of Marr and North Ro (not sure if Nro and OoM is merged in p99 like in current EQ), but I did that run many times with my Troll Shadowknight and never felt like it was a long run. Certainly many ways to get stomped along the way at low level, but still.
Then again, I might just be old-school and a bit used to running around in the game to get from place to place.
Also the spell limitation might be an issue, but for that I simply stocked up some spells each time for the next few levels (e.g. next 4-5 levels ahead of me).
Anyways... made me a bit curious to see this run mentioned as a long one so wanted to comment (and kinda poke at the issue and see if others also see this as a long run). It does lead into a Pantheon related question which is: What will a 'long run' be in Pantheon? Is a 5 minute run going to be the 'long distances', or is it going to be 30 minute runs? What will be the definition of a 'long run' in Pantheon?
When I say 'long' I include dying a few times hehe and stocking up spells is fine if you can afford them. Yeah, it's not the longest run, but it was a recent example. It seems longer when you've had to do it several times in one day while your buddy is waiting for you...
To be clear, I don't mind a run. Some of the danger and the exploration was fun too, but the fact that if we'd both picked the same race we'd have been able to play together much more readily is the point.
Try picking Barbarian and Iksar and playing together...
The simple fact that it is a bit hard or a bit tedious is precisely what makes it rare and cool to see a troll running around unmolested in kelethin, though. It will actually mean something when you get there. This is generally why I'm in favor of preserving difficulty and limiting super convenience - I would be extremely disappointed to see a bunch of dumb magic portals in every city.
Raine said:The simple fact that it is a bit hard or a bit tedious is precisely what makes it rare and cool to see a troll running around unmolested in kelethin, though. It will actually mean something when you get there. This is generally why I'm in favor of preserving difficulty and limiting super convenience - I would be extremely disappointed to see a bunch of dumb magic portals in every city.
Agreed. A *bit* hard or a *bit* tedious is good. Having a secret troll camp nearish Freeport where you could buy food and drink and maybe buy spells wouldn't mean you could wander into the city and pick up quests from the paladin guild or even expect protection from the gate guards like humans get. You should probably have to do some faction quests and grinding to visit the troll camp even - they would be a very suspicious and close-nit bunch.
Raine said:The simple fact that it is a bit hard or a bit tedious is precisely what makes it rare and cool to see a troll running around unmolested in kelethin, though. It will actually mean something when you get there. This is generally why I'm in favor of preserving difficulty and limiting super convenience - I would be extremely disappointed to see a bunch of dumb magic portals in every city.
I can agree with that for sure.
When I first started in Everquest as a High Elf and then a Wood Elf it was very rare to see trolls or ogres anywhere in Faydwer. Seeing one was rather exclusive (people even /shouted that they had seen a troll). Likewise you didn't see many wood elves running around in Nektulos forest. In fact, first time I went to nektulos forest out of curiosity (I had just read the Dark Elf Triology by R.A. Salvatore) I was both scared (remember, no maps back then) and felt adventurous. I was looking for the dark elf city and when I realized it was nothing but a hole in the wall and the whole city was underground I was entirely fascinated. While running back to Commons I was so intriguied I wanted to make a dark elf character (which I later did) and I completely forgot about where I was right up until I followed the road to the bridge and Dragoon X'Lottl turned me into wood-elf steaks.
Anyways, digressing.
There is certainly something about making places tough or a time-investment to get to that makes them all the more interesting and exotic. I've experienced that first-hand and know exactly how it made me feel. But if I can just get there (and back again) in under 3 minutes thanks to fast traveling and such... well... then it's just trivial and doesn't feel like an accomplishment, consequently feels uninteresting and 'just another place'.
I've wanted mmorpgs to have a synergy between lore of the world and gameplay so I can feel like im in a high fantasy epic. Everquest is the only mmo i've played that kinda done that in terms of the world. Honestly it didn't do it particularly well. My short playthrough of wow it kinda did that with quests but that spawned all the offshoots of wow clones. Since then all mmorpgs appeal to be catered to convienence.
With wow clones, the worlds may have grown since everquest but they feel smaller. They may throw more lore into the world but it feels uneffecting. I think what im really asking for is better level design. With plenty of challenges and getting stuck and having to work out a problem. I don't think that's talked about enough.
I wouldn't want portals in each city, but I actually don't have a big issue regardng portals around the continents - especially if they are timed rather than on demand (kind of like Nexus spires in EQ). On the other hand I would have no issue if portals were limited to player spells.
The key aspects for a game to me is the group orientated focus, community, challenge & consequence. When it comes to the world I don't want it to feel small and I think limited teleporting helps keep the world large and community focused, but at the same time I do not think limited portals will ruin it either. Even WoW during its Vanilla state with all its flight paths still felt like a pretty big world - between size of zones, time taken to fly, boat requirements for other continent...travel was not insignificant, but nor was it so onerus that people didn't bother. There is a fine line between a nice large world and preventing players from getting together.
If you look at EQ and peoples issue with spending hours LFG, a lot of that issue came from the fact that travel was so excessive that it was not worth doing - if you were in Highkeep or Unrest (2 crowded and popular zones) people would shout LFG there for hours and be added to queues because the alternative was a travel that would likely take most of your play session with no guarantee of a group the other end.
I understand the desire for the long treacherous 'adventure' travel may bring, but people also need to be realistic - the devs have said that they want the old school vibe, but also said they understand people don't have 6+ hour play sessions. They are designing the game for 2hr chunks, already they are bravely keeping CRs which could eat in to that play session (but at least it would be a consequence of actually playing and having things go wrong - in otherwords it is technically an avoidable issue) if travel time impedes too much on play time it limits grouping opportunity, resulting in most a play session simply being getting from A to B in the hopes of getting a group the next time you log on and also meaning next time you are on you are limited to seeking out a group in your area, potentially meaning another night with little adventuring.
The purpose of a large world is to enhance your play experience, not isolate you from others or make things feel tedious. A fine balance has to be found between shrinking the world too much via 'conveniences' (Vanguard had too many portals for my taste) and leaving the world so big it ends up feeling lonely du to too much time running from A to B trying to group for adventure.
I am aware convenience is a dirty word in MMOs and a slippery slope, if in doubt I prefer siding with 'too little' rather than too much, but again, the game is supposed to be playable in 2hr chunks so people need ot have realistic expectations in what sacrifices that may require
asteldian said:If you look at EQ and peoples issue with spending hours LFG, a lot of that issue came from the fact that travel was so excessive that it was not worth doing - if you were in Highkeep or Unrest (2 crowded and popular zones) people would shout LFG there for hours and be added to queues because the alternative was a travel that would likely take most of your play session with no guarantee of a group the other end.
But if your group finally did get its act together, then this would make the experience of gaining items and experence points all the more sweeter.
I understand the desire for the long treacherous 'adventure' travel may bring, but people also need to be realistic
Is that the best word to use though? It seems to me that the people who desire things like longer and more dangerous travel are the ones seeking realism and meaningful actions with consequences. That being said, I believe you’re using realistic in the same sense as practical, so I do understand your point.
the devs have said that they want the old school vibe, but also said they understand people don't have 6+ hour play sessions.
I agree. However, did it really take six hours for a group to get together at Unrest? Perhaps it did if most of the group didn’t know what they were doing, but once all the people gained a better grasp of the game, would it still take them six hours to meet up and gain a few levels? I feel like this might be an exaggeration. I should know since I still play EverQuest.
They are designing the game for 2hr chunks, already they are bravely keeping CRs which could eat in to that play session (but at least it would be a consequence of actually playing and having things go wrong - in otherwords it is technically an avoidable issue)
I think it’s worth clearly stating that corpse runs do not eat into gameplay. That’s just the wrong way to look at corpse runs and it’s that wrong way of looking at corpse runs that got it removed from modern-day MMORPGs. Corpse runs were part of the original EQ and they were very much part of its gameplay. It’s one thing to say that corpse runs aren’t good gameplay because an argument can be made for either side, leading to a meaningful discussion, but I don’t see the worth of presumptively categorizing them as something that eats into gameplay. Obviously, they’re part of a game’s gameplay if they’re part of the design and ruleset of the game.
The purpose of a large world is to enhance your play experience, not isolate you from others or make things feel tedious.
These are all person-relative though. What you find tedious may not be what others find tedious. What you think makes people feel isolated, may not in fact make them feel isolated. Or maybe it does make them feel isolated, but it’s a feeling that they enjoy.
I am aware convenience is a dirty word in MMOs and a slippery slope, if in doubt I prefer siding with 'too little' rather than too much, but again, the game is supposed to be playable in 2hr chunks so people need ot have realistic expectations in what sacrifices that may require
What does playable mean though? Many would argue that running across the world to join other adventurers is part of playing the game. Many would argue that corpse runs are part of playing the game. But you seem to view these things as filler or intermediaries between sessions of the “real game.” I don’t know if that’s a good way of looking at it.
And I feel like I’ve seen this line of thinking from other players of other MMORPGs. It’s the same argument that is used to justify tools like dungeon finder (in WoW), which automatically assembles groups and instantly teleports the group to an instanced dungeon.