As I have not seen this mentioned (probably because harvesting and crafting are yet unrevealed) I thought I would ask.
In Vanguard, we had "group harvesting", where essentially a resource node would yield more with more players hitting it at the same time.
This was a very popular function and added to the "socialization" of harvesting players.
It was not uncommon for individual harvsters in a zone to call out for help from other harvesters in taking down a rare node. It was a common courtesy that all harvesters used with each other generally.
Can we possibly expect something like this i hope?
I have a vague memory of seeing a response from someone in VR about this - that it's not in the plan right now, but might be something they consider in the future.
I absolutely loved group harvesting in Vanguard, and think it was a fantastic way to make harvesting a social activity. I'm very much in favor of anything that lets people accomplish their personal goals while remaining in a group setting.
This sounds good and all but I kinda hope they keep harvesting to a minimum. I rather enjoyed EQ's crafting system where most combines were dropped items from enemies, it made the outcome feel so much more rewarding, but if they do crafting using nodes for harvesting I would enjoy this so much.
EDIT: Fixed wording it sounded better in my head lol.
zewtastic said:As I have not seen this mentioned (probably because harvesting and crafting are yet unrevealed) I thought I would ask.
In Vanguard, we had "group harvesting", where essentially a resource node would yield more with more players hitting it at the same time.
This was a very popular function and added to the "socialization" of harvesting players.
It was not uncommon for individual harvsters in a zone to call out for help from other harvesters in taking down a rare node. It was a common courtesy that all harvesters used with each other generally.
Can we possibly expect something like this i hope?
I hope so...I have heard a small smidgeon of a rumor about diplomacy...just in passing. Remembering that Vanguard had a "sphere" that included diplomacy, adventuring, crafting/harvesting. I thought it worked well in Vanguard, along with groups of crafters helping with house building and boat building. Remember these are my hopes, not something I know for sure. :) Keeping fingers crossed. :)
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:zewtastic said:As I have not seen this mentioned (probably because harvesting and crafting are yet unrevealed) I thought I would ask.
In Vanguard, we had "group harvesting", where essentially a resource node would yield more with more players hitting it at the same time.
This was a very popular function and added to the "socialization" of harvesting players.
It was not uncommon for individual harvsters in a zone to call out for help from other harvesters in taking down a rare node. It was a common courtesy that all harvesters used with each other generally.
Can we possibly expect something like this i hope?
I hope so...I have heard a small smidgeon of a rumor about diplomacy...just in passing. Remembering that Vanguard had a "sphere" that included diplomacy, adventuring, crafting/harvesting. I thought it worked well in Vanguard, along with groups of crafters helping with house building and boat building. Remember these are my hopes, not something I know for sure. :) Keeping fingers crossed. :)
5th sphere was Mounts.
My understanding is that group harvesting will not be a thing in Pantheon, at least not initially. I believe this decision was made to preserve the value and supply/demand of resources. Personally, I am happy about this decision. I think there will be plenty of other features that are designed to promote social play in Pantheon but group harvesting in general contributes toward the market being flooded with resources. Here is a link to the interview where it is discussed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qG-RdZBD8&feature=youtu.be&t=2090
Quote from Ceythos: "Short term I don't see that. I think initially everything will be fairly contested and it's first come first serve. That plays more into the economy side of things like wanting to keep supply and demand in check because if you start having 'nodes are rare' we're only going to travel as a group to get 6x the results we would have gotten from that node, you're introducing 6x (600% more) things into the economy. Long term do we do that ... maybe, I see the case being made for that, I understand the want to have a 'it's a group shared experience game' why wouldn't that translate? I see the argument for that. Short term, though, I want to see how the economy plays out and see how that feels before deciding a hard yes/no on group harvesting."
This is also a popular topic that has come up quite a bit here on the forum (will be adding it to the FAQ compendium) -- here are some other links where it is already being discussed:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7870/group-harvesting-for-pantheon
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5873/harvesting-teams
Nihimon said:Yeah, it's important to keep in mind that the current plan for Pantheon is to have significantly fewer harvesting nodes than we're used to in other games, which should make each one feel a lot more special.
Are you trolling? Or did you never play Vanguard.
I would need much more documentation on that conjecture.
zewtastic said:Nihimon said:Yeah, it's important to keep in mind that the current plan for Pantheon is to have significantly fewer harvesting nodes than we're used to in other games, which should make each one feel a lot more special.
Are you trolling? Or did you never play Vanguard.
I would need much more documentation on that conjecture.
I'm never trolling.
I played Vanguard for many years.
I've only been around these forums for a couple of weeks, so I don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of forum posts and dev quotes that Baz does. Yet. I'll see if I can find a source to cite.
Well I have been hearing mutterings from the streams that are sounding like resources may be more concentrated in difficult adventure areas and from harvestable NPCs.
But since we have seen zero about harvesting and crafting it's all guess work. And most likely is it will all change depending on how it flushes out after alpha/beta testing.
Harvesters like to have nodes they can just harvest. If crafting is made to be strangled by harvesting nightmares, I suspect that node count will increase quickly.
I really hope they stick with the plan and that harvest materials end up being rare overall. I get the idea behind group harvesting and why people think it's cool but the economic impact isn't good. The rarer the resources are, the more valuable the products they are crafted into becomes. In EQ2, "rare harvests" were pretty common and they almost weren't worth the time it took to put them on the AH. In FFXI on the other hand, harvests were rare and meaningful and spending a day mining actually felt like you accomplished something if you had a good run. I think it makes plenty of sense to apply "risk vs reward" into the harvesting sphere and I don't see how pumping more resources into the world makes sense just because there are more people harvesting a given node.
zewtastic said:Well I have been hearing mutterings from the streams that are sounding like resources may be more concentrated in difficult adventure areas and from harvestable NPCs.
But since we have seen zero about harvesting and crafting it's all guess work. And most likely is it will all change depending on how it flushes out after alpha/beta testing.
Harvesters like to have nodes they can just harvest. If crafting is made to be strangled by harvesting nightmares, I suspect that node count will increase quickly.
Zewt, I highly suggest you watch my interview with Ceythos in its entirety. There is more info out about crafting than you may think - pretty much all of these questions have been answered. Ceythos and I spent about 40 mins going into some pretty good detail about the system, including group harvesting and the scarcity of nodes. Although if you haven't already, I suggest you first read up on the couple of articles about crafting that Ceythos wrote in the newsletters a while ago to provide an overall introduction to the crafting system before we discussed it in more detail in the interview:
Article 1: http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/crafting_and_harvesting/
Article 2: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_january_harvesting/
Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qG-RdZBD8
I have a clear visual memory of one of the streams with Aradune and Joppa in a group with other VR folks and a streamer, and they were just outside Thronefast when someone from VR called their attention to a harvesting node and then they started talking about how the nodes would not be near as common as they are in most games.
I'm perfectly willing to believe the memory is totally wrong, but it's sooooo vivid!
Pantheon Crafting Discussion with Game Designer Corey LeFever
That link is to the question at 24:09. Baz starts off asking about harvesters being able to harvest all resources, but Corey LeFever brings up the "scarce nodes" topic in his response.
Corey LeFever @ 24:45: "Nodes in our game are going to be a little less populous than people are accustomed to with more recent games... It doesn't make sense to litter the world with nodes, and just run the same loop of nodes every 5 minutes for hours on end to get the materials you need. With things being a little more scarce, we want players to be able to [say] 'Oh! I see a node. I want to go get that.' [If they say] 'I didn't pick that skill; I can't pick that.' that feels kind of bad, given our desire to make things a little bit more rare to keep the supply and demand in balance."
That so closely matches the conversation I thought I was remembering that I'm starting to believe I must have watched the Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen "Making of a CIty" Stream either right before or right after watching this interview.
Also, it's clear I "significantly" overstated the scarcity. I said "significantly fewer harvesting nodes than we're used to in other games", and Corey LeFever said "a little less populous than people are accustomed to with more recent games". So, sorry for any confusion I may have caused with that.
I have watched all the video's, they have definitely said things to that nature.
But "common" is relative. Common compared to what? To EQ1 1999? To EQ1 2005? To vanguard? I'm not sure what they mean when they say "common".
And there are so many aspects to harvesting.
It's nice that Baz is enthusiastic, but he is young, new and has lots of time apparently. Those of us that have been playing MMO's since MMOs were invented have a perspective based on long experience.
And interviewing game designers can be like talking to a dreamer chasing butterflys. They have so many plans, ideas, desires, expectations and what actually gets done and coded is usually much different.
I have been involved with gaming for decades, going back to table-top, pen and paper (which most of this is based on), on into working in the game industry for years.
I am ok to wait and see.
So you have seen all the publicly available information of what is coded into the game and you only believe what you see coded. What is the purpose of this thread or the follow up questions you continue to pose?
Also, I think it's impressively rude of you to personally attack someone that came to help answer a question that you asked. Although I don't think it should matter here, Bazgrim has said that got into MMO's with EQ, which is practically the stone age of MMO design.
zewtastic said:It's nice that Baz is enthusiastic, but he is young, new and has lots of time apparently. Those of us that have been playing MMO's since MMOs were invented have a perspective based on long experience.
It may be fair to say I am young and have lots of time. But that's irrelevant. It's quite the incorrect assumption to say that I am new. Not only am I not new to Pantheon, but I'm not new to MMOs either. As Ainadak said, I started playing EQ in 1999, like many people here. And I've also played countless MMOs since then. So I bring plenty of firsthand experience to the table when I'm studying Pantheon, and my perspective is probably no more narrow than yours. But this is not about credentials.
Firstly, it's totally fine if you want to just wait and see, because things do often change through Alpha and Beta. But to be fair, you asked a question originally about what we can expect to see in Pantheon. Of course, the best answer about what to expect is what is coming straight from the mouth of the crafting dev. And that is: don't expect group harvesting because it probably won't happen, at least until they get more data on how many resources are entering and exiting the economy.
Part of managing how many resources are entering the economy is limiting the amount of nodes. Yes, it's too early to discuss specifics, but again at this point the best we can discuss are the current plans. Despite my experience with countless MMOs, I try to avoid drawing comparisons to other games as much as I can in order to understand Pantheon as accurately as possible. So it is very clear to me that in regards to harvesting, some of their basic philosophies are:
- It should not be viable to run a pre-determined loop of nodes to maximize the amount of resource you can gather in a period of time. Discovering a node should feel like a nice bonus rather than a necessity or a guarantee. This also probably means that most nodes will to some degree have semi-random spawn locations, timers, etc.
- Nodes should be placed where they make sense ecologically, rather than strictly by level. Speaking of which, I wanted to clarify this point you made: "Well I have been hearing mutterings from the streams that are sounding like resources may be more concentrated in difficult adventure areas and from harvestable NPCs." These are probably nothing more than mutterings because harvestable NPCs are still officially considering a "maybe." And while killing NPCs may be the most efficient way to get materials for many, it's also important to note that: "Rather than providing harvesting opportunities by perceived difficulty of a zone or the content around it, we'll be placing them where they naturally make the most sense. You’ll also find harvesting opportunities within civilized areas, such as gardens, parks, and the like, as well in the wilds." (Source: http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/crafting_and_harvesting/ ;)
- There should be multiple ways to acquire materials in addition to nodes, including NPC drops, merchants, and more importantly, Salvaging.
- Some materials should be more rare than others. Therefore, those nodes would of course not appear as often.
- Higher level nodes should require higher skill and higher quality tools to harvest. Speaking of which, you also asked "what skills/tools are required for the node?" Well, here's the current plan:
Node Type | Skill | Tool
Body of Water | Fishing | Fishing Pole
Plant/Fungi | Gathering | Sickle
Animal Corpse | Skinning | Skinning Knife
Ore Vein | Mining | Pickaxe
Tree | Woodcutting | Axe
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_january_harvesting/ ;)
Hope this helps!
Thanks, OneADseven, Baz and Nihimon for your replies! :)
This topic has been discussed several times and has official videos, streams and Q&A answers as mentioned by our awesome community members above. In future please use the search function prior to posting as you will more often than not, find the topic has already been discussed over the last 3 years.
I will go ahead and close this down now. I have removed the personal attacks and replies that quoted them, in future the entire thread will be removed without warning if you start a duplicate thread and then attack community members who give up their time to help provide information to you.