SoWplz said:There really is no yes or no answer to this. It is a broad question to player rep. the FD training is one thing, but I am also talking about just general jerk moves. I sure I am not the only one this has happened to, but my group is 5 mobs away from our camp cause we are working our way down to the named mob to spend the evening hoping for loot. Group B zones in and the ranger sees named mob and the group invis past us to kill named mob and go about there night. Did the second group break and play nice rules? No Did the second group do anything to harm our group or give us a real reason to bother a GM? No. Did the second group just end up on my D-Bag list? Yes.
This type of story is why these things can't be legitimately moderated. Why didn't your group invis to the mob you wanted to kill? You putting them on some sort of personal D-bag list seems like the biggest issue with this scenario.
I find most issues are about egos and one party or the other not wanting to admit they were wrong. Sometimes I'm the one in the wrong. It's not always the other person. It takes maturity to admit.
philo said:SoWplz said: I never ran into a guy that had top gear, top level, and knowlede of the game...who was... a very friendly personThis is just a sad and an unfortunate bias. Top players don't have to be jerks. Granted, I haven't been heavily involved in an mmo for almost 10 years...but the point remains in theory. I'm worried...
Sad? No. Just a huge over-generalization by SoWplz. And not true by any means.
Not sure what he means by "very friendly".
I think rep matters where you don't care about your guild, and deliberately set out to be obnoxious to community members.
If you are in a guild..you are a representative of that guild and its public relations.
Granted I don't wear rosy pink glasses, there ARE some guilds out there that could care less what people think of them.
Personally..as a guildie, I watch what I say and do, because I care about my guild membership and the overall picture or impression that I give out as a member of that guild.
I also believe in guild loyalty, I don't guild hop to get some shiny pixels that another guild happens to have. But those sorts of "gamer etiquette" seem to have been forgotten these days. I guess we'll have to see how our community holds up ..when push comes to shove. VR states #communitymatters, and how you treat others on your server..is part of that.
Cana
Having played EQ1 from the start and then Vanguard for many years, yes there are some horrible immature, toxic, narcissists. Just like in everyday normal life.
In this age of everyone and their sister streaming, it will probably be much harder to avoid being incriminated for egregious acts than it used to be.
Whether reputation matters or not, will always be up to the rest of the playership.
It should be interesting to watch Pantheon become a microcosm of real life. At least we won't be swamped with FTP toadies.
SoWplz said: Just looking for other peoples history on this matter. I always found myself in the family type guild. Not big on raiding, but always helping each other with average play time of a few hours a day. The times I had run ins with jerks in the game they were usally in 1 of the top 3 guilds on server. Or surrounded by other jerks. Many times if we wpuld send tells to other group members they would admit whoever was being a jerk, is a jerk and they would say sorry and move on down the road. I never ran into a guy that had top gear, top level, and knowlede of the game a very friendly person ( unless you were one of his guys ) A good rep would stand out, always know clerica that would spend their night helping you get a rez. The awsome rogue who would risk his ass you drag your group. The bad ass druid that would buff, and just hang to help your group out for an hour or so cause he was bored. But the people that train you, kill steal just to run by your group, to the name you have been hunting for the past 3 hours. These people have a bad rep from you, but they always seems to be surrounded by other like minded players. Anyone run into similar situations?
Rep matters.
Three forms.
Good
Wild Fire
Troll
I've play all three.
Non Confrontational: Player who is a good player and respect the play nice policies and dont retalitate.
Wild Fire: How I classifify my self, I I like a certain amout of control in a group until the Trolll comes in. Troll would be someone pulling my groups mobs or traing us. I will descend into the troll group. But the sum of this goups is I end up with respect but with a edge. Within social norms I shine but outside this person can be the worst of the three.
Troll: Player who has lost intrest in the game and wants to quit and or is out for revenge. Uses Hacks, etc
I think on these boards, many (and i do mean MANY) of us (not just me) come off as jerky assholes. (it's hard to convey things something, and people read more into things that is really there etc)
But, I promise, in the game, in a group, in a guild, and to the general population, I am the nicest guy ever.
I would see someone paying a ridiculous amount for a ress in Sol B or LG because they were trained 2-3 times, had 2-3 corpses, and lost their level.
If i wasn't doing something, or wasn't in a group, 99% of the time, I would give them a tell, go ress the 2-3 corpses and when they would try to pay me, I would hit cancel and ask them to remember me if I ever asked for help. I was a cleric for life in EQ.
That help was returned when I asked a bunch of random people to help me kill ragefire in the bottom of Sol B at 4AM one monday morning and 25 people come help me get my last piece for my epic. By that time, I had ressed most of the server 10X each.
kreed99 said: The biggest problem is those people that grief or troll just dont care. They will throw buckets of money at a game just to screw with someone. At least if they have to spend money to troll it cuts it down a large amount.
I don't understand this comment, because Pantheon isn't a pay to win game? O_o
Zazazuu said:kreed99 said: The biggest problem is those people that grief or troll just dont care. They will throw buckets of money at a game just to screw with someone. At least if they have to spend money to troll it cuts it down a large amount.
I don't understand this comment, because Pantheon isn't a pay to win game? O_o
Probably pay a new game box to play again after beeing banned. However, in a game where you reach max level with one week of chain questing, it's an issue. I'm not sure it's such an issue in a long progression game, even if you can transfer your gear through a friend before beeing banned, if you know what's coming.
Flapp said:I think on these boards, many (and i do mean MANY) of us (not just me) come off as jerky assholes. (it's hard to convey things something, and people read more into things that is really there etc)
But, I promise, in the game, in a group, in a guild, and to the general population, I am the nicest guy ever.
I would see someone paying a ridiculous amount for a ress in Sol B or LG because they were trained 2-3 times, had 2-3 corpses, and lost their level.
If i wasn't doing something, or wasn't in a group, 99% of the time, I would give them a tell, go ress the 2-3 corpses and when they would try to pay me, I would hit cancel and ask them to remember me if I ever asked for help. I was a cleric for life in EQ.
That help was returned when I asked a bunch of random people to help me kill ragefire in the bottom of Sol B at 4AM one monday morning and 25 people come help me get my last piece for my epic. By that time, I had ressed most of the server 10X each.
That is community building what you did Flapp, :) Bravo! and each one of us can find it in our hearts to help others..I used to rescue newbies (was a wizard with teleports) that had been dumped off near Karnor's castle or elsewhere...I suspect due to annoying someone too much lol, but I would get them home safely. Just little things like that. :)
Cana
The main thought behind it was purchasing new box and recreating chars to grief. I know my thought was scattered at the time of posting. Yes i am glad its not F2P or P2Win. And i am hoping the grind is enough of a deterrent to stop people from wasting accounts. I was just trying to say that people will always try to ruin something for thier own twisted pleasure. No matter the cost.
The more difficult we make it, within reason, the quicker these trolls and griefers will get bored. The reason EQ1 TLP servers have trolls and griefers? Its easy as heck to level in that game now and you can easily get a kronos to purchase a new account sub. Back in the day? It took forever and you didnt want to redo that timesink.
So what do we learn? Dont make it easy. Don't try to increase server populations with ingame purchases/kronos type currency. People use giftcards/alt currency because they are trying to hide something.
kreed99 said: The biggest problem is those people that grief or troll just dont care. They will throw buckets of money at a game just to screw with someone. At least if they have to spend money to troll it cuts it down a large amount.
Welp...gold farmers, botters, and trollish people will have a hard time around this community. :) Kronos from what I have understood from Aradune's postings won't be a thing, so it will be harder to have real money trade with no support from the VR team. Griefers, if they are habitual..will end up being dealt with by GMs..I don't know what that policy will be..but I hope its a "three strikes you're out" kind of setting.
Name changes and switches to other servers after stealing the guild inventory, ( saw this in wow, and Rift) will probably be dealt with as well..People play online games for fun and to make friends, not to pay to put up with the obnoxious behavior of the few that seem to be unhappy with life, themselves, and anyone else that crosses their paths.
I hope you guys recognize the difference between 1) you calling a 'camp', your there, and someone batently pulling named and placeholders in your 'camp'; 2) you calling a 'camp', but your not at the camp yet, and someone beats you to setup-engage; 3) you calling a camp, your there, but the zone is overcrowded so someone else nabs outlier trash from your camp because you arent killing them all anyway; 4) you calling half of the zone because your group friggin godly and clears it no problem, and newbs complain thats not fair play your group is monpolizing the zone.
1- we can all agree the guy who steals from you is a jerk
2- you cant call a camp if your not holding it.. thats not fair to other people if your sitting around 30+ minutes not killing anything when other people/groups are there and ready
3- nothing wrong with this, theres no such thing and a 'camp' in the end, and therefore no bounderies.. its silly if other groups have to sit without spawns if your group isnt killing in your camp fast enough
4- Its the devs job to make camps and zones unattractive to the overpowered toons for that content, its not the players fault. If a player has good reason to kill half the zone and the ability to do so.. thats perfectly fine, good for them. You should find another camp.
Im sure we could all come up with more..
I guess my point is, right and wrong actions regarding camps has a lot of grey areas
SoWplz said: ... . I do not aee the play nice policy as a truw black and white rule book, more of a respect for players around you.
Unless it's an enforced rulebook (either ~immediately by GM's in game, or via in-game mechanics) people will ignore it and take advantage and do everything they can for whatever reason they can rationalize or justify to themselves.
An in game mechanic may be a good idea to enforce reputation through the community and add meaning to your reputation.
Possibly a commend system only usable while grouped so you can't go around randomly commending people; that works in tail with a /inspect feature.. other players can commend you for being friendly, helpful, a good leader etc. Adversly potentially allow players to tally if you're a ninja looter, rude, etc.
I'm not saying this is the solution and i can see how it could certainly be exploited for good or bad. However, just word of mouth may not be enough to stop you from being a dick. Word of mouth may not encourage you to be a good community member either.
Just like being recognized for the high tier armor your wearing and that class epic weapon your touting, people like to be recognized for the good they do, at least me anyway. I think it's important to not let people forget severe violations of the community as well though. Whatever that may be is up for interpretation imho at the moment.
Would you leave out negative components of this commend system? or allow groupmates to rate you negative? I think it should be all positive or none. So a base line of -0- means you either suck or nobody has left any positive (new players/solo'ers)
What about artificially inflating this count by having 2 accounts? You would need a list of players that left a commend so that you can verify the count. And you would want to keep it simple perhaps a "Like" button that leaves a tick on your backend account info stating Player A left a Commend. With this option you can only have 1 tick per person so you would need to group with other people to get it higher. Also, allow us to untick this Commend after the group incase we find out they did something horrible.
I imagine a twostep system. While grouping/raiding you can click thier name and commend them. After you are done grouping/raiding you can go back in and edit your commend's incase you change your mind. But only allow commend creation while in group/raid.
This is an option. Could tie it into other sort filters like LFG tool. Higher Commend count more groups you get. I know a lot of higher levels would spread the love just to get a high Commend count. It would generate social gameplay.
This would also help make loot decisions easier for guild leaders that dont run DKP. This guy helps out a lot more vs. this guy is only on here for raids.
kreed99 said:Would you leave out negative components of this commend system? or allow groupmates to rate you negative? I think it should be all positive or none. So a base line of -0- means you either suck or nobody has left any positive (new players/solo'ers)
What about artificially inflating this count by having 2 accounts? You would need a list of players that left a commend so that you can verify the count. And you would want to keep it simple perhaps a "Like" button that leaves a tick on your backend account info stating Player A left a Commend. With this option you can only have 1 tick per person so you would need to group with other people to get it higher. Also, allow us to untick this Commend after the group incase we find out they did something horrible.
I imagine a twostep system. While grouping/raiding you can click thier name and commend them. After you are done grouping/raiding you can go back in and edit your commend's incase you change your mind. But only allow commend creation while in group/raid.
This is an option. Could tie it into other sort filters like LFG tool. Higher Commend count more groups you get. I know a lot of higher levels would spread the love just to get a high Commend count. It would generate social gameplay.
This would also help make loot decisions easier for guild leaders that dont run DKP. This guy helps out a lot more vs. this guy is only on here for raids.
The negative aspect of the commend system is fundamentally a bad idea i think. If they could somehow manage to fit that in, how they would idk, it may help.
From the standpoint of -0- being a baseline so basically you suck is a good indication that if you dont have any commends by level 50 youre probably a jerk. I do like the idea of being able to edit or remove that commend afterwards. I have played with many people that initially seem to be good folks, but after several game play sessions you find out there is more negative than positive to them as a member of the community or as an individual in general.
Additionally, to combat exploitation i would agree with you that a commend is a "like" that is tied to your account so you cant just create 8 alts and give 8 commends.
A commend system may encourage higher levels to reach out to lower levels or a group in need, as you brought up social interaction - youre a cleric running by and you see a player losing their fight and decide to stop and heal them, or you throw a couple buffs running by a group hoping for a commend. On the other hand people could use it as a bargaining chip like "hey if i heal/buff you, commend me" and that could be potential for exploit and in turn potential inflate your commend score.
So as i mentioned i dont think its the "solution" but it could be a way to keep track of your reputation on paper so to say.
EDIT: Some may argue as a cleric youre obligated to heal someone in need. I have received nasty tells by someone i ran by, that i never stopped to even evaluate their fight and didnt heal, telling me its my job as a healer to stop an heal someone. Which in my opinion i technically have no obligation to heal anyone but myself and those in my group. However, this may encourage people that dont generally stop to think twice about a fight theyre running by, to do so. Not everyone in a community based game is bent on helping every last person they see, but if the devs can encourage that kind of gameplay, i say do so.