OK People i repeat myself from a post above Please do not get stuck oln Epic if you read my post above i try to say it coulde be an Legendary item/stone and there could be other 1 server like Epic it was an ide for many to be able and dream about and item without havin a fullfledge HardCore raid guild I did not say we should remove the uber weapon HC people can get as the ussually is better at defeting raid's but as i understud VR they where trying to do a community game groupe based and not a Raid Game so this was so many could under there journey true Pantheon aim to get a Legendary funn Item with a family type guild . You are disscussin a uber almost never looted item or maybe a Raidguild line quest for the hootest stuff ever and im fine with that , i just whanted to indroduce a new thing for main players to enjoy not replace Epic/Myhtic Weapon uber strange unlogic badas raid stuff as i guess it will be there but something more in line with Pantheon as a world and the lore with maybe diffrent strenght as we all cant reach the highest raid's or complete them as we may lack the ability to preform at top level so top level stuff for top level players and something wich is almost as nice but optainable for many . Hope i dont anger anyone because thats not the point the point was the give every player soomething nice to look farward to as In my family 200+ players guild in EQ2 never got as we know we could never do every stage and as you had to do 100% we just said bugger it lets have funn . So please put some idea's in this line and treat Epic/Mythical very hard raid stuff as a diffrenty thing ok ?
Grizzly
Kalok said:Liav said:Wandidar said:As much as I LOVED my EQ epic weapon quest... I hope they don't do epic weapons. Don't get me wrong, I want some form of an epic quest - or even mulitple epic quests or quest lines (coldain rings for example for old EQ players)... but epic weapons, to me, amount to shutting the slot down to new drops once you attain your epic.
If it's done as Vanguard did it, this wouldn't be the case.
Nor would it if there were "add-on" Epic Quests to upgrade your Epic Weapon.
I definitely agree that the idea of an epic augment is a good solution.
Advance ask that you pardon my ramblings.
I like the idea of a lifetime quest, and visible effects to show for it. Whether it be a weapon, aura, what have you. My main qualm with EQ1 epics is how one-dimensional they were. The quest is steps A-Z which resulted in a non-unique and immutable item. I know VR wants to avoid crossing too many specialization/balance lines to keep each class well defined within its role but feel the 'Epic' quest should be one exception to enable interesting decision and play-style branching (which in itself feels much more 'defining' to me)
For instance, as a cleric I may want to enhance my quick heals, and I can follow a branching path that leads more in this direction. Since this is the 'main' line of enhancement the choices you are making here should be pretty obvious. In this case it may involve mastering all manner of disciplines surrounding energy transfer and a close connection to the holy source. The epic item focuses your healing spells, particularly quick heals.
Or I may be more interested in mass resurrection leading my journey down a less conventional path to better understand death, embracing studies of necromancy (this is not to say you get necro abilities, just spend a lot of time gaining the trust and access to their knowledge)
These branches themselves can give you clues to what you are getting youself into by rewarding a gradient of the ability. Your first unlock gives you a 'free' one person reanimation but it is only temp and the player will eventually still die (this could be a sub-path that focuses on reanimation). The near-end stage is mass reanimation , but again at the cost of being temporary. To cement your choice and make your group res non-temporary you must master time. In reality your subjects are still only temporarily reanimated but you are able stretch that time into a span of a normal lifespan. Once a person is mass ressed they cannot be again until a cooldown debuff is expired.
Alternatively you go a different sub-path for mass resurrection, but your first unlock is a real res -- just you take a huge HP hit for it. The near end result is mass resurrection at the cost of your own life and horrible debuff that stacks for every person you use it on. You must master death and learn to cheat it for your final unlock. Mass res without the debuff or killing yourself. In reality you expend a rebirth timer. You can continue to mass res at this point but it will kill/sicken you.
Why these sub-paths if the result is nearly the same? Well as an unforseen consequence of your path you unlock a less defined ability. In the case of the first you gain a temp clicky effect that lets you prolong the last instant of death making someone immune to all damage for ___ seconds. The latter.. allows you youself to cheat death and be self resurrected (which is actually the ability that allows you to a mass res without dying in the first place, you expend that cooldown)
Taking this further, as a lifetime quest -- seemingly unconnected quests, factions, perceptions, etc may end up augmenting your epic in other, although minor, unforseen ways. So that the choices you make throughout will in itself produce a unique epic. Maybe your time spent understanding death has given you the ability to harvest leaked dark energy from your group mates. Eg when a group member uses purple mana your weapon recaptures a small portion of it for your own use. Things like this. Minor but useful.
I edited the first post a litttle to hopefully help avoid confusion. It's interesting to me how many of us react to the word "epic" very strongly. I've played so many MMOs now that I guess I have a wider view of the concept than a lot of people.
Just to say it, I don't think anyone's ideas as posted in this thread are bad, and I think we're all looking for the same goals. Those goals are:
1) We want the concept of epic/legendary/relic/etc items to be something that's very meaningful
2) We want choice in the "form" that the epic/legendary/relic/etc item takes. Bows vs. swords, for example
3) We don't want the thing we have worked so hard to obtain to become obsolete just because new content enters the game or the level cap goes up - we want a way to upgrade it and continue its story.
4) Some of us (maybe many of us?) would like the epic/legendary/relic/etc journey to kick off earlier in our adventuring career - not just at level cap.
5) Some of us (hopefully many of us) want epic/legendary/relic/etc items to be something that the majority of players can complete, without necessarily forcing them into a playstyle that's not comfortable for them. But, we want players who take on the most challenging content to have the strongest items at the end of the day.
Personally, I like the Soulstone concept because it helps hit all of those goals. It allows all the other items, whether those are dungeon drops, raid loot, or crafted, to still be relevant and desireable. It allows players the choice to decide what item is most important to their character. It allows for evolution of the item over time, which can easily be extended when the level cap goes up or new content gets added. And it allows everyone to work on "their" item, even if they aren't a raider - the raider's items will just end up being stronger at the end, because of access to raid-quality drops to combine it with. It doesn't preclude having a heavy quest component either - as Durp suggested, there's no reason that there couldn't be gating quests along the way as you evolve the Soulstone.
Anyway I hope everyone will continue the discussion in the same spirit that it's had so far - the intent here wasn't to take anything away from the epic quests we all remember fondly. It was to discuss how we could make the idea of epic quests more of a lifelong thing for your character, rather than just being a one-time event, and at the same time how we could make the whole concept even better.
All ideas and opinions are valid and welcome :)
I love the idea of the Soulstone as something that starts early on and progresses with you, but like I said before, as an independent thing from more traditional-style epics. I don't think it necessarily has to be one or the other. I'm kind of repeating myself here though. :D
Nephele said:Edit: People seem to be getting hung up on the word "epic" - so it might be worthwhile to point out, that the below doesn't have to replace the concept of class-defining "epic" quests. I'm rearranging this post to put the "why" behind the idea up front, and maybe that will help avoid further confusion.
Some of us were talking about Epic/Legendary weapons and some of the pitfalls with the way other games have handled those in the VIP Discord, and we wanted to throw this idea out there for folks to discuss :)
This concept came up because we were talking about having your "epic" be something you worked on for the life of your character, not just a long quest at high levels. However, we didn't want a system where you only ever had one weapon for the entire life of your character and never needed another.
What if....
As a young adventurer, you obtain a "Soulstone" - this could come from a low-level quest, or just be given to you at character creation, or something.
- Soulstones can be attached to weapons, shields, or chest armor pieces. You only ever get one Soulstone, so you have to choose where it goes.
- When you attach a Soulstone to an item, the items stats are overwritten and are now determined by the Soulstone. Soulstone items are more powerful than other items at the same level.
- While attached, Soulstones gain experience and level up alongside you as you progress (assuming you have their equipment piece equipped)
- Each time a Soulstone levels up, you have the ability to choose how it will become stronger in some way. This can range from adjusting stats (more critical hit, more parry/block chance) to actually giving the Soulstone effects - like a poison proc or a stun proc at "milestone" levels.
- The level of the Soulstone is capped by the equipment piece that it's attached to. So for example, that starter sword you got might cap the Soulstone at level 5.
- To lift that cap, you need to obtain a new equipment piece to put the Soulstone in. Higher level/quality equipment has a higher cap for your Soulstone. So, if your Soulstone has capped out in the shield you currently have, transferring it to a higher level shield would allow it to start growing in power again.
- To move a Soulstone to a new item, you have to go through a process that destroys the old item. You might also need to collect special materials to be able to transfer the Soulstone into the new item. However, this also means that you can transfer the Soulstone to a different type of item. For example, maybe it was in your sword before, but you want to put it in your bow this time around. Either way, you lose the old item, and the Soulstone ends up transferred to a new one where it can grow in power again.
- At high levels, your Soulstone might give the equipment piece a unique glow effect depending on the choices you've made as you've leveled that Soulstone up - something to visually distinguish that this is a very powerful piece of equipment.
- As an incentive for progeny, perhaps Soulstones for progeny characters get an additional small bonus of some kind.
So by doing it this way, you get to evolve/customize your "epic" over time, rather than it being just a one-and-done kind of thing. You get to choose what kind of epic you want - whether that's an armor, shield, or weapon piece. And, getting upgrades for that item slot is still a really important part of gameplay. The quest component can still be there as part of the requirements to transfer the Soulstone - so for example, if you wanted to transfer your Soulstone into that raid drop you just got, which would maximize its potential, you might still have to go collect a bunch of things in order to get the alchemical concoction you needed to actually DO the transfer. Likewise, since players only get one Soulstone and have to choose where to use it, raid drops (and crafted items) still matter for more than just advancing your Soulstone item. If you've used it on your armor, you still want those weapon drops to use as-is.
Thoughts? If I missed anything from the Discord discussion we had, I'm sure that the others will jump in and add it. Just to be clear, this is a purely player-sourced idea that we all thought was worth exploring, no devs spilled any beans or anything like that :)
Way too granular. Fans are obsessed with making up new mechanics, seemingly without any real world understanding of what it means to create.
Nephele said:I edited the first post a litttle to hopefully help avoid confusion. It's interesting to me how many of us react to the word "epic" very strongly. I've played so many MMOs now that I guess I have a wider view of the concept than a lot of people.
Just to say it, I don't think anyone's ideas as posted in this thread are bad, and I think we're all looking for the same goals. Those goals are:
1) We want the concept of epic/legendary/relic/etc items to be something that's very meaningful
2) We want choice in the "form" that the epic/legendary/relic/etc item takes. Bows vs. swords, for example
3) We don't want the thing we have worked so hard to obtain to become obsolete just because new content enters the game or the level cap goes up - we want a way to upgrade it and continue its story.
4) Some of us (maybe many of us?) would like the epic/legendary/relic/etc journey to kick off earlier in our adventuring career - not just at level cap.
5) Some of us (hopefully many of us) want epic/legendary/relic/etc items to be something that the majority of players can complete, without necessarily forcing them into a playstyle that's not comfortable for them. But, we want players who take on the most challenging content to have the strongest items at the end of the day.
Personally, I like the Soulstone concept because it helps hit all of those goals. It allows all the other items, whether those are dungeon drops, raid loot, or crafted, to still be relevant and desireable. It allows players the choice to decide what item is most important to their character. It allows for evolution of the item over time, which can easily be extended when the level cap goes up or new content gets added. And it allows everyone to work on "their" item, even if they aren't a raider - the raider's items will just end up being stronger at the end, because of access to raid-quality drops to combine it with. It doesn't preclude having a heavy quest component either - as Durp suggested, there's no reason that there couldn't be gating quests along the way as you evolve the Soulstone.
Anyway I hope everyone will continue the discussion in the same spirit that it's had so far - the intent here wasn't to take anything away from the epic quests we all remember fondly. It was to discuss how we could make the idea of epic quests more of a lifelong thing for your character, rather than just being a one-time event, and at the same time how we could make the whole concept even better.
All ideas and opinions are valid and welcome :)
I think the reason that alot of us are "hung up" on the word Epic is that it had a very specific meaning in terms of old EQ, which is what most of us are using as a frame of reference for this term. Especially given that Brad McQuaid had "just a little bit" (smirk) to do with EQ.
I like the idea about a class based item that a player works on over the life of their character. (a much longer coldain prayer shawl type quest with various stepping stone levels...but more class specific that isn't tradeskill based)
I'd much prefer the item not be a soulstone type of augmentation that you can add to other weapons/items for a few reasons listed below (been there done that):
In EQ you see a player wearing a Oracle Robe or Rubicite armor and you know exactly what it is, what its stats are. You know where it came from, what the player had to kill to acquire the item. This is something Brad has mentioned as being in favor of.
With augments like the soulstone example that was mentioned, it changes all of that. What the armor looks like becomes less important. It now becomes necessary to inspect someone to see what their armor is. Now you have Rubicite armor with certain augments being better than rubicite with other augments. The visual appearance matters a lot less...god forbid every augment adds some slight visual variance so that you can't clearly tell what the player has in passing. That is the point of visually unique armor. It should be unique. Not kind of unique with slight augment variances.
Also, I prefer that items themselves matter. Camping for a rare item that you finally get...but you still won't equip it until you add bonus stats to it through add ons, removes a lot of the good feeling from attaining an item. Conversely, you loot a great augmentation, but it is being added to the same old armor piece you have been wearing can leave the player feeling a bit underwhelmed.
Also, I consider add ons to be lazy design. If there were enough developers to create enough individual items, creating add ons to other items isn't necessary. Just create new items instead of new add ons. Yes, that can be easier said than done and we know VR has a small team. The point remains. Hopefully we can find alternative ways to extend content and the life of gear than by item augments...progeny sounds like a good start.
Granted, there is always a balance. if you want to throw crafters a bone and allow them to slightly add to an items stats fine, but it should be very limited imho. I am definitely not in favor of epic quality augments.
It is a slippery slope. Pretty soon you have multiple augment slots on every item and when any item in the game drops it becomes only half usable without augments. I hate that underwhelming feeling. It ends up making me lose incentive to continue acquiring items. It has been part of the reason that drove me away from games in the past.
philo said:I like the theory about a class based item that a player works on over the life of their character. (a much longer coldain prayer shawl type quest...but more class specific that isn't tradeskill based)
I'd prefer the item not be a soulstone type of augmentation that you can add to other weapons/items for a few reasons listed below:
In EQ you see a player wearing a Oracle Robe or Rubicite armor and you know exactly what it is, what its stats are. You know where it came from, what the player had to kill to acquire the item. This is something Brad has mentioned as being in favor of.
With augments like the soulstone example that was mentioned, it changes all of that. What the armor looks like becomes less important. It now becomes necessary to inspect someone to see what their armor is. Now you have Rubicite armor with certain augments being better than rubicite with other augments. The visual appearance matters a lot less...god forbid every augment adds some slight visual variance so that you can't clearly tell what the player has in passing. That is the point of visually unique armor. It should be unique. Not kind of unique with slight augment variances.
Also, I prefer that items themselves to matter. Camping for a rare item that you finally get...but you still won't equip it until you add bonus stats to it through add ons, removes a lot of the good feeling from attaining an item. Conversely, you loot a great augmentation, but it is being added to the same old armor piece you have been wearing can leave the player feeling a bit underwhelmed.
Also, I consider add ons to be lazy design. If there were enough developers to create enough individual items, creating add ons to other items isn't necessary. Just create new items instead of new add ons. Yes, that can be easier said than done and we know VR has a small team. The point remains. Hopefully we can find alternative ways to extend content and the life of gear than by item augments...progeny sounds like a good start.
Granted, there is always a balance. if you want to throw crafters a bone and allow them to slightly add to an items stats fine, but it should be very limited imho. I am definitely not in favor of epic quality augments.
It is a slippery slope. Pretty soon you have multiple augment slots on every item and when any item in the game drops it becomes only half usable without augments. I hate that underwhelming feeling. It ends up making me lose incentive to continue acquiring items.
Have fun avoiding BIS. That is an impossible task without removing stat loot completely.
If you think about epic weapons as they were implemented - It didn't take that long for weapon stats in succeeding expansions to outstrip your epic. That lead to "epic 1.5" and "epic 2.0" - which, to me, sort of implies that epics aren't epic.
- Hey guys, this is your EPIC WEAPON!
- Hey guys, this is your EPIC-ER WEAPON!
- Hey guys, this is your SUPER EPIC-ER WEAPON!
What it came down to is that it wasn't the stats that made your epic your epic. It was:
- The unique look of your epic weapon
- The unique particle effects of your epic weapon
- The unique EFFECT of your epic weapon
For example: Long past the weapon itself being of any value - the clicky effect on the cleric epic is... well... epic.
I think it's less than ideal to end up with the same weapon in the same slot forever once you earn your epic... and (as stated above), I think it's less than ideal to have more epic versions of epic weapons come out over time. For me, I would prefer that the devs really distill down what it is that makes something "epic worthy" - and figure out a way to provide that as the reward of an awesome quest line without the shortcomings of blocking a slot forever, or creating the more epic epic at a later date.
philo said:I like the idea about a class based item that a player works on over the life of their character. (a much longer coldain prayer shawl type quest with various stepping stone levels...but more class specific that isn't tradeskill based)
I'd much prefer the item not be a soulstone type of augmentation that you can add to other weapons/items for a few reasons listed below (been there done that):
In EQ you see a player wearing a Oracle Robe or Rubicite armor and you know exactly what it is, what its stats are. You know where it came from, what the player had to kill to acquire the item. This is something Brad has mentioned as being in favor of.
With augments like the soulstone example that was mentioned, it changes all of that. What the armor looks like becomes less important. It now becomes necessary to inspect someone to see what their armor is. Now you have Rubicite armor with certain augments being better than rubicite with other augments. The visual appearance matters a lot less...god forbid every augment adds some slight visual variance so that you can't clearly tell what the player has in passing. That is the point of visually unique armor. It should be unique. Not kind of unique with slight augment variances.
Also, I prefer that items themselves matter. Camping for a rare item that you finally get...but you still won't equip it until you add bonus stats to it through add ons, removes a lot of the good feeling from attaining an item. Conversely, you loot a great augmentation, but it is being added to the same old armor piece you have been wearing can leave the player feeling a bit underwhelmed.
Also, I consider add ons to be lazy design. If there were enough developers to create enough individual items, creating add ons to other items isn't necessary. Just create new items instead of new add ons. Yes, that can be easier said than done and we know VR has a small team. The point remains. Hopefully we can find alternative ways to extend content and the life of gear than by item augments...progeny sounds like a good start.
Granted, there is always a balance. if you want to throw crafters a bone and allow them to slightly add to an items stats fine, but it should be very limited imho. I am definitely not in favor of epic quality augments.
It is a slippery slope. Pretty soon you have multiple augment slots on every item and when any item in the game drops it becomes only half usable without augments. I hate that underwhelming feeling. It ends up making me lose incentive to continue acquiring items. It has been part of the reason that drove me away from games in the past.
Question: If you only ever have one (and only one) augment at any one time, and you have to choose which piece of equipment it goes on, does that solve the problem with making items themselves "half usable"? I ask because that was a key point in the original idea - players only have ONE soulstone - they can move it around to new gear pieces (with difficulty), but they never have more then one.
I totally get your concern about being able to visually identify equipment, but I think that's a hot topic in its own right. There are just as many people who want visual uniqueness as there are people who want to be able to alter appearances for cosmetic purposes. Not sure who's going to win that argument, but either way...
Years to complete? EQ epics didn't even take years to complete. Maybe if you played for 30 minutes a day, once a week.
Please.
Nephele said:Question: If you only ever have one (and only one) augment at any one time, and you have to choose which piece of equipment it goes on, does that solve the problem with making items themselves "half usable"? I ask because that was a key point in the original idea - players only have ONE soulstone - they can move it around to new gear pieces (with difficulty), but they never have more then one.
I totally get your concern about being able to visually identify equipment, but I think that's a hot topic in its own right. There are just as many people who want visual uniqueness as there are people who want to be able to alter appearances for cosmetic purposes. Not sure who's going to win that argument, but either way...
Yes, that would solve most of my concern...but the thing is, why? If you are only making one augment per class, why not just make unique items instead? If you are only ever going to have one epic augment there is not a reason to implement it as an augment. Augments are usually instated into games to extend the life of a a lot of gear. It is easier and quicker to implement than creating a ton of unique items...but if you are only ever making 1 augment per class, there isn't much point. Just make the unique items instead. (that is restating the part about lazy design from my above post).
I am skeptical that it would work anyway. I don't think that having only 1 can happen over the long term. I can see it start out as one...but a couple years later that becomes an easy way to extend the life of gear. You can't set that precedent. I have seen it happen before. It is a slippery slope.
I commented on that briefly when I said: "It is a slippery slope. Pretty soon you have multiple augment slots on every item and when any item in the game drops it becomes only half usable without augments. I hate that underwhelming feeling. It ends up making me lose incentive to continue acquiring items. It has been part of the reason that drove me away from games in the past."
edit : Even if the reward was any one item from a selection of items from each slot that the player got to choose. That would be the same thing right? Except it is an actual item instead of an aug that is simply trying to extend the life of another item.
Wandidar said:If you think about epic weapons as they were implemented - It didn't take that long for weapon stats in succeeding expansions to outstrip your epic. That lead to "epic 1.5" and "epic 2.0" - which, to me, sort of implies that epics aren't epic.
- Hey guys, this is your EPIC WEAPON!
- Hey guys, this is your EPIC-ER WEAPON!
- Hey guys, this is your SUPER EPIC-ER WEAPON!
What it came down to is that it wasn't the stats that made your epic your epic. It was:
- The unique look of your epic weapon
- The unique particle effects of your epic weapon
- The unique EFFECT of your epic weapon
For example: Long past the weapon itself being of any value - the clicky effect on the cleric epic is... well... epic.
I think it's less than ideal to end up with the same weapon in the same slot forever once you earn your epic... and (as stated above), I think it's less than ideal to have more epic versions of epic weapons come out over time. For me, I would prefer that the devs really distill down what it is that makes something "epic worthy" - and figure out a way to provide that as the reward of an awesome quest line without the shortcomings of blocking a slot forever, or creating the more epic epic at a later date.
I don't see it as an Epic 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, etc. I see it as an Epic weapon that continues to grow as you continue to grow. At least that's the way I see it going with the way that I proposed to do it.
As a side note, nowhere in the definition of the word epic does it say that it means "the best"
adjective, Also, epical
1.
noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style:
Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2.
resembling or suggesting such poetry:
an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3.
heroic; majestic; impressively great:
the epic events of the war.
4.
of unusually great size or extent:
a crime wave of epic proportions.
5.
Slang. spectacular; very impressive; awesome:
Their burgers and fries are epic!
adverb
6.
Slang. very; extremely:
That's an epic cool video!
So an upgradable class defining weapon is still within the loose definition of Epic Weapon.
Kalok said:As a side note, nowhere in the definition of the word epic does it say that it means "the best"
adjective, Also, epical
1.
noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style:
Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2.
resembling or suggesting such poetry:
an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3.
heroic; majestic; impressively great:
the epic events of the war.
4.
of unusually great size or extent:
a crime wave of epic proportions.
5.
Slang. spectacular; very impressive; awesome:
Their burgers and fries are epic!
adverb
6.
Slang. very; extremely:
That's an epic cool video!So an upgradable class defining weapon is still within the loose definition of Epic Weapon.
Even if it gets better over time via quest or whatever - it still doesn't solve the issue of having one item lock down one inventory slot forever. I want some form of epic quest... I DON'T want something locking down a slot. My opinion only, of course.
Wandidar said:Kalok said:As a side note, nowhere in the definition of the word epic does it say that it means "the best"
adjective, Also, epical
1.
noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style:
Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2.
resembling or suggesting such poetry:
an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3.
heroic; majestic; impressively great:
the epic events of the war.
4.
of unusually great size or extent:
a crime wave of epic proportions.
5.
Slang. spectacular; very impressive; awesome:
Their burgers and fries are epic!
adverb
6.
Slang. very; extremely:
That's an epic cool video!So an upgradable class defining weapon is still within the loose definition of Epic Weapon.
Even if it gets better over time via quest or whatever - it still doesn't solve the issue of having one item lock down one inventory slot forever. I want some form of epic quest... I DON'T want something locking down a slot. My opinion only, of course.
How does it "lock down yoyur slot"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. In the case of the melee classes, the Epic Weapon was just that. A weapon. You use it to kill mobs. It has some added stats and possible clickies. If you don't want to use it, you can bank it, throw it in a bag, whatever. I'm confused why you think that your class defining weapon would be some burden that you'd have to edure, not something that could be a udeful item to you.
If you're going to go down the, "as you progress better weapons will be available from drops", that's the WHOLE POINT of the upgrade quests, so again, I am unsure how this is a burden to be endured. The upgrade augments your existing one, not gives you a second or third one.
Please enlighten me.
Kalok said:Wandidar said:Kalok said:As a side note, nowhere in the definition of the word epic does it say that it means "the best"
adjective, Also, epical
1.
noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style:
Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2.
resembling or suggesting such poetry:
an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3.
heroic; majestic; impressively great:
the epic events of the war.
4.
of unusually great size or extent:
a crime wave of epic proportions.
5.
Slang. spectacular; very impressive; awesome:
Their burgers and fries are epic!
adverb
6.
Slang. very; extremely:
That's an epic cool video!So an upgradable class defining weapon is still within the loose definition of Epic Weapon.
Even if it gets better over time via quest or whatever - it still doesn't solve the issue of having one item lock down one inventory slot forever. I want some form of epic quest... I DON'T want something locking down a slot. My opinion only, of course.
How does it "lock down yoyur slot"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. In the case of the melee classes, the Epic Weapon was just that. A weapon. You use it to kill mobs. It has some added stats and possible clickies. If you don't want to use it, you can bank it, throw it in a bag, whatever. I'm confused why you think that your class defining weapon would be some burden that you'd have to edure, not something that could be a udeful item to you.
If you're going to go down the, "as you progress better weapons will be available from drops", that's the WHOLE POINT of the upgrade quests, so again, I am unsure how this is a burden to be endured. The upgrade augments your existing one, not gives you a second or third one.
Please enlighten me.
If it's your class defining weapon and it always gets better (with the assumption that it is always the best weapon you are going to get) then you will never equip anything else in your weapon slot - thus locking the slot down with your epic.
If weapons occasionally pass it by, but the next quest steps bring it back to prominence, then anything else you equip will only be a place holder for your epic until it is again your best weapon.
While I really want an epic quest line or three in the game... I don't want that happening with a gear slot.
Wandidar said:Kalok said:Wandidar said:Kalok said:As a side note, nowhere in the definition of the word epic does it say that it means "the best"
adjective, Also, epical
1.
noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style:
Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2.
resembling or suggesting such poetry:
an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3.
heroic; majestic; impressively great:
the epic events of the war.
4.
of unusually great size or extent:
a crime wave of epic proportions.
5.
Slang. spectacular; very impressive; awesome:
Their burgers and fries are epic!
adverb
6.
Slang. very; extremely:
That's an epic cool video!So an upgradable class defining weapon is still within the loose definition of Epic Weapon.
Even if it gets better over time via quest or whatever - it still doesn't solve the issue of having one item lock down one inventory slot forever. I want some form of epic quest... I DON'T want something locking down a slot. My opinion only, of course.
How does it "lock down yoyur slot"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. In the case of the melee classes, the Epic Weapon was just that. A weapon. You use it to kill mobs. It has some added stats and possible clickies. If you don't want to use it, you can bank it, throw it in a bag, whatever. I'm confused why you think that your class defining weapon would be some burden that you'd have to edure, not something that could be a udeful item to you.
If you're going to go down the, "as you progress better weapons will be available from drops", that's the WHOLE POINT of the upgrade quests, so again, I am unsure how this is a burden to be endured. The upgrade augments your existing one, not gives you a second or third one.
Please enlighten me.
If it's your class defining weapon and it always gets better (with the assumption that it is always the best weapon you are going to get) then you will never equip anything else in your weapon slot - thus locking the slot down with your epic.
If weapons occasionally pass it by, but the next quest steps bring it back to prominence, then anything else you equip will only be a place holder for your epic until it is again your best weapon.
While I really want an epic quest line or three in the game... I don't want that happening with a gear slot.
You DO realize that, with the exception of 2hs weapons, you get to equip up to two weapons right?
Wandidar said:ONE of which will always contain that weapon... right?
Anyway - it's likely just safest to say we disagree. This is turning into a pissing contest.
It's not turning into a pissing contest on my side. I am trying to genuinely understand why you view a class defining weapon as some sort of burden to be endured rather than something fantastic to be gained.
What would you wwant the Epic Quests to result in if not an Epic Weapon?