Wisdom said:I personally prefer FFA. I have played in team pvp servers and the most common problem in Vanguard saga of Heroes on the team pvp server Varking, was monks. What I mean by monks the class that could run quickly and leap while training a large group off mobs thru a dungeon type area then playing dead allowing the mobs to attack the group of people are pveing. I have no problem with this Strat I personally would never do it nor would my guild. However not being able to kill said individual, was a major problem on the Team PvP server.
It came to a point where the opposite faction would roll monks on our side just to try to train mobs since they had no chance against us in pvp at the time. I am for having multiple rule sets PVE, Team Pvp, and my personal favorite like in Vanguard Sartok server FFA which completely Removed the Troll monk training.
I would also love to see on the pvp servers, when a player is killed by another player they drop coin just like in Vanguard. I realize that full loot is most likely out of the question in this day and age of gaming but the dropping of coin. Also making people have the coin on them not their bank when using the action house was a fantastic feature.
Very valid point, and it does make since, tohugh i hope in pantheon monk dont have increased speed, so training people becomes extremely dangerous as it might lead to his own death or at least make it to where training become difficult, but this is getting off topic and i apologize for this.
Dulu said:After talking with Louden last night, and reading his post here. I'm convinced that FFA PvP is an ideal server ruleset. I think Teams PvP could work, but you run into issues with cross-faction abuse, such as training. I never experienced anything like that in WoW/DAoC, but I could see it happening in a game like this.
@Louden, do you think there should be level restrictions, or any level is free game? (Perhaps once out of the noob zone)
In relation to how it would affect our guild specifically, I really haven't given it much consideration. We're seeking competitive end-game pvp and our members shouldn't be running around lowbie zones harassing players attempting to level. It negatively impacts server growth when new players are one shot by some random level 50 that can't hack it in the 50 zone.
That said, you don't want a competing guild to log on a low level character just to follow your team around the map. Nor do you want to have some low-level character you can't attack attempt to train your group when pulling a world boss. Hopefully, end-game content is located in what would be considered end-game areas. If that is the case, those areas could forgo any PvP level restriction, while lower level areas could still benefit from it.
I have never had the priviledge of playing a new MMO with a FFA ruleset. My only experience are with MMO's having a typical PvP ruleset. While the PvP in these MMO's (WoW, SW:ToR, Rift, Final Fantasy, Guild Wars 2) are fun and do provide weeks of competition. Eventually they all suffer from the same issue, Coat-Tail Riders. These bandwagoners create a huge disadvantage to the PvP experience on BOTH sides. The result is a zerg force with a large number of unorganized players on one side. The organized PvP guilds quickly become frustrated with the lack of coordination and lack of competitiveness this causes. Eventually the players looking for a more competivie and balanced approach to PvP become bored, frustrated, and they frequently leave soon after launch. From those who have played older MMO's with a FFA server I have heard a FFA ruleset balances out these issues. I hope Pantheon can bring at least one true FFA server!
Imo, there is not much value to letting a max level character gank lowbies. That conduct drives people away from the server, and prevents people from rolling alts on a mature server, which isn't good for anyone in the long run. So instead of a pure FFA server, I would prefer a server that has level restrictions in some zones, as a few of you have suggested here. Zones with, say, level 40+ mobs and all zones w/ raid targets would be full FFA. I could see myself playing on that kind of server.
edit: Regarding the problem of lowbie healers exploiting the level restriction, couldn't the game just cause anyone that heals another player who is engaged in PvP combat to be treated as falling in the same PvP range as the player being healed, in addition to the healer's own PvP range, for some limited period of time?
@Dulu - Gnog listed an excellent means of addressing such issues that have been implemented in previous games. If a low level player assists another character currently engaged in PvP, heals, buffs, applies shields and so on, that player would automatically be flagged. As long as end-game content is located in areas without level restritions, what you mentioned shouldn't be an issue.
And don't be so worried about low level game play. I don't know how long it will take to hit max level, but the likely time our members will spend running low-level content should be minisqule in the scheme of things. As Pantheon is likely to attract a mature player base, I'm hoping this will result in a more knowledgable community that understands the improtance of focusing resources on end-game issues and balances.
Dulu said:Well that brings me to the next scenario - what if you're engaged in PvP in a FFA zone, and then you move into a non-FFA zone?
Would you be able to zone over? Should zone-hopping / plugging be a thing?
I would think that once you engage in PVP or enter a pvp-flagged area your character stays flagged for a minimum of say 5 minutes so regardless of where you run, or "zone", you stay flagged. That way you can't zone hop to avoid something, or exploit something.
@Dulu - feel free to continue engaging in the discussion. I'm going to let others in the community respond directy to any other questions or senarios you might list here so it doesn't seem like we're attempting to hijack a community thread. Hit me up on our site or hop on voice comms if you want to continue the conversation within the guild.
I am all for multiple Realms, but I am very scared that the planned sizes will make it difficult for niche classes to find groups and raid slots. Also, as far as raiding, small server sizes make it very difficult to allow several large guilds. Not enough people on a small server to support multiple large guilds.
I really hope they don't destroy diversity/group or raid options, in their quest to have small realm sizes to develop community.
If the realms are too small, niche characters aren't an option, because you will need to be the main classes to find a group, raid,etc.
Beefcake said:I am all for multiple Realms, but I am very scared that the planned sizes will make it difficult for niche classes to find groups and raid slots. Also, as far as raiding, small server sizes make it very difficult to allow several large guilds. Not enough people on a small server to support multiple large guilds.
I really hope they don't destroy diversity/group or raid options, in their quest to have small realm sizes to develop community.
If the realms are too small, niche characters aren't an option, because you will need to be the main classes to find a group, raid,etc.
I have found the opposite to be true.
Small servers (Red 99 had 100-200 players primetime while I was playing) allow for people to play whatever they like, because any warm body is a needed and useful part of the community.
It's when you have a hundred thousand players to choose from, you start to only take the best classes, because you can. If you have no choice, you'll just make due with what's available.
Beefcake said:I am all for multiple Realms, but I am very scared that the planned sizes will make it difficult for niche classes to find groups and raid slots. Also, as far as raiding, small server sizes make it very difficult to allow several large guilds. Not enough people on a small server to support multiple large guilds.
I really hope they don't destroy diversity/group or raid options, in their quest to have small realm sizes to develop community.
If the realms are too small, niche characters aren't an option, because you will need to be the main classes to find a group, raid,etc.
Agreed. I love the mid-high population servers and I don't think it really makes the community feel much less well knit, I love that it spreads players out all over the land and to the various dungeons more than small populations, which more quickly tend to find a set "path" of favored dungeons/places for finding groups/leveling. The thing that destroys the feeling of community is auto-matchmaking/instances and cross-server interactions, which this won't have. Early WoW didn't have those things and even on one of the highest population servers there was a sense of community and reputation. Sadly it was short lived.
