"2.0 What is new or unique about spells and abilities in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen?
An important aspect of character development in Pantheon is obtaining powerful spells and abilities. In MMOs, it is common to find rare items out in the world, whether by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to a player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower. Through a game system, we call “The Living Codex,” players will be able to manage both standard class abilities and these powerful and rare abilities."
I am so looking forward to this again, EQ had this too. You had to run around and get your spells bc they weren't all hand fed to you in one spot. Helped you stick out more or make a little gold selling those spells from them far away locations or dungeon drops.
I'm really looking forward to this too, but..
lillucky said:a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower.
That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
Cromulent said:That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
/sarcasm
What !? I have to go back to town?! and PAY?!! They should just show up in my spellbook the second I ding !!
Feyshtey said:Cromulent said:That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
/sarcasm
What !? I have to go back to town?! and PAY?!! They should just show up in my spellbook the second I ding !!
I know right?
Some games even require that you log in to them.
Personally I think it would be outstandingly cool to be able to start developing your new spells and abilities after you level. Rather than going from Fireball rank 3 to Fireball rank 4 you could choose what attributes to enhance based on what sages you have talked to and what secrets you have discovered through perception, and possibly what knowledge was passed down from your progenitors.
For that matter you could receive every spell at level one and as you use ability and level your character the ability's attribute power goes up. The attribute powers give you points to upgrade and modify the spells and abilities to how you want to play your character. An example would be that for X number of points you can increase the damage, range, projectile speed, cast speed, area of effect, or decrease the mana cost. Each rank up of the specific attribute would cost progressively more points favoring an all around balanced attribute increase but still allowing for unique specialization if the player wished. A step further or a sign that the ability had evolved you could maybe add a rider status effect or an additional element or change the AOE shape or element entirely. It would be a fairly difficult system to balance and would need a way to reset your spell development if you totally fubar the skill.
The more I think about it the more I wish a game company would build an ability system like this and Pantheon is a really good platform for it.
I like the idea that we have to go seek out skills and abilities and they aren't just handed to us as we go. I also like the idea of being able to improve and specialize in skills as part of character progression.
That said - I hope that we don't get to a place 6 months in where it's become a trivial and meaningless activity. I remember when EQ2 first launched, it was a *big* deal to get a Master book drop. Heck, it was a big deal to get someone craft you the Adept version of a spell or skill, because it took rares that were in short supply
Fast forward a couple of years and because of proliferation of drops, and various things added to make it easier for new players, the skill system was essentially worthless. Everything you had was at Adept or Master level.
Also: if there's a specialization system, I think that we need to make sure that all available specializations are equally useful/desirable. Otherwise we end up with cookie-cutter and FOTM templates.
Cromulent said:That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
I don't disagree for casters. How would that look for melee, such as Rogues? I'm not saying I don't like the idea for melee too, I'm just trying to figure out how that would look? Maybe meet some NPC Rogue out in the world, do a quest and get an ability?
I'd prefer to see most class skills given to you automatically upon leveling, with some specific spells/upgrades only available through quests or some unique mechanics. For instance, you could learn abilities in Vanguard by killing specific mobs in specific zones depending on your class.
Liav said:I'd prefer to see most class skills given to you automatically upon leveling, with some specific spells/upgrades only available through quests or some unique mechanics. For instance, you could learn abilities in Vanguard by killing specific mobs in specific zones depending on your class.
I think a good compromise could be made between both methods. Say a base set of skills you get from the trainers and others you get "out in the world".
The other day I had an idea that maybe some sort of "trainer" system between players might be kinda cool too. Something like this.
Back in EQ, you could learn racial languages by listening to others talk. So what my idea was was that say a level 50 had a skill that they wanted to pass on. Find someone of lower level, but of the appropriate level for the skill, like say a level 45 skill, and train them like training for the languages happened in EQ. Not sure how easy that would be though.
lillucky said:I would like to see this go a bit further than it says. Not just the "more rare and exotic" but even some more common, and in turn not all need to be dungon hard to get to."2.0 What is new or unique about spells and abilities in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen?
An important aspect of character development in Pantheon is obtaining powerful spells and abilities. In MMOs, it is common to find rare items out in the world, whether by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to a player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower. Through a game system, we call “The Living Codex,” players will be able to manage both standard class abilities and these powerful and rare abilities."
I am so looking forward to this again, EQ had this too. You had to run around and get your spells bc they weren't all hand fed to you in one spot. Helped you stick out more or make a little gold selling those spells from them far away locations or dungeon drops.
I'm suggesting like teleport spells in EQ... for your Erudin portals you had to go to Erudin, as my little group of explorers entered ant new town we all split up to go seek out the trainer to see what they had. If the mage found the Druid trainer she let him know where. The Wizard found the Druid he would let her know where it was. There always seemed to be something for each of us.
In Pantheon maybe
Gnomes in the sky would have lightning based spells.
Dark Myr would obviously have water based spells.
Maybe a human Wizard will just have to level up on Fireballs until he was high enough (Level, I need to make that clear, I live in Washington State) to travel to the Gnome city and get his Lightning Spells. Gnomes would level on Lightning until they leveled and went to the human city.
I'd like to see the interaction between the racial citys.
Zorkon said:lillucky said:I would like to see this go a bit further than it says. Not just the "more rare and exotic" but even some more common, and in turn not all need to be dungon hard to get to."2.0 What is new or unique about spells and abilities in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen?
An important aspect of character development in Pantheon is obtaining powerful spells and abilities. In MMOs, it is common to find rare items out in the world, whether by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to a player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower. Through a game system, we call “The Living Codex,” players will be able to manage both standard class abilities and these powerful and rare abilities."
I am so looking forward to this again, EQ had this too. You had to run around and get your spells bc they weren't all hand fed to you in one spot. Helped you stick out more or make a little gold selling those spells from them far away locations or dungeon drops.
I'm suggesting like teleport spells in EQ... for your Erudin portals you had to go to Erudin, as my little group of explorers entered ant new town we all split up to go seek out the trainer to see what they had. If the mage found the Druid trainer she let him know where. The Wizard found the Druid he would let her know where it was. There always seemed to be something for each of us.
In Pantheon maybe
Gnomes in the sky would have lightning based spells.
Dark Myr would obviously have water based spells.
Maybe a human Wizard will just have to level up on Fireballs until he was high enough (Level, I need to make that clear, I live in Washington State) to travel to the Gnome city and get his Lightning Spells. Gnomes would level on Lightning until they leveled and went to the human city.
I'd like to see the interaction between the racial citys.
I don't dislike this idea. How would that work in a faction based world were a race might be KoS in the Gnome city, for instance? Would there be another city that has it where they aren't KoS, or would they "faction grind" untiil they were no longer KoS? I could see cool things both ways.
Kalok said:Cromulent said:That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
I don't disagree for casters. How would that look for melee, such as Rogues? I'm not saying I don't like the idea for melee too, I'm just trying to figure out how that would look? Maybe meet some NPC Rogue out in the world, do a quest and get an ability?
Sorte said:Kalok said:Cromulent said:That does sound exciting. It is so boring in games that give you all your spells and abilities for free or just require you to run back to town to get them all for next to nothing money wise. Hopefully some of the spells and abilities will be very rare indeed just to make it that much more rewarding if you ever get them.
I don't disagree for casters. How would that look for melee, such as Rogues? I'm not saying I don't like the idea for melee too, I'm just trying to figure out how that would look? Maybe meet some NPC Rogue out in the world, do a quest and get an ability?
Perhaps Rogues need to find a Poison Master to get better poisons recipes, or a Master Thief to get a better lock picking set.
-sorte.
That's sort of what I was imagining when this was posted. I like this idea. Mayve find him hiding somewhere in a secret room or something.
I'm a big fan of how EQ did it. A core set of spells each tier that are sold by vendors, a handful of spells that need to be researched via dropped torn pages/runes/scrolls etc, and one of two rare drops. Whatever else added on top is gravy too. Having some spells be researched with various combined dropped parts (and an associated research skill) really does a lot to limit surplus on a server.
I like the "find a master" thing. I also liked how in the original Asheron's Call (never played the sequel) one had to research one's spells and everyone had a different set of components for the spells. They used a simple random method that players figured out and killed the whole thing but the general idea was pretty good.
Kalok said:Liav said:Would probably be easy to implement, but it'd ultimately just turn into a "WTS skillups for X, 500p per skillup".
Yeah. There's that problem too.
This isnt a "problem". There will always be things for people to sell and buy, if you try and regulate that too much you end up hurting the economy.
In regards to spell tiers... i would love to see different "tiers" of spells ala Fireball Rank 1, 2, 3 that are increasingly stronger the higher you go.
I dont think the old EQ system of certain spells only acheivable through raiding (think back to pre PoP days) is the way to go
I'd like personal environments, myself. Or customizable gear, spells, and skills. And more customization.
Kalok said:
I don't dislike this idea. How would that work in a faction based world were a race might be KoS in the Gnome city, for instance? Would there be another city that has it where they aren't KoS, or would they "faction grind" untiil they were no longer KoS? I could see cool things both ways.
There were hurdles like this in EQ with it's certain spells in certain cities, a good way I think that could make it work is that the trainer / seller of the special spell is not KoS... but the city guards / civillians int he city are, so you can /shout for an invis and cross your fingers as you make your way to the merchant / trainer in the city, safely drop invis, buy the spell / component and then gate out or maybe /shout for another invis to get out :)
Or maybe enchanter illusions will be able to be put on other players and then u can /shout for that instead.
Hokanu said:Kalok said:
I don't dislike this idea. How would that work in a faction based world were a race might be KoS in the Gnome city, for instance? Would there be another city that has it where they aren't KoS, or would they "faction grind" untiil they were no longer KoS? I could see cool things both ways.
There were hurdles like this in EQ with it's certain spells in certain cities, a good way I think that could make it work is that the trainer / seller of the special spell is not KoS... but the city guards / civillians int he city are, so you can /shout for an invis and cross your fingers as you make your way to the merchant / trainer in the city, safely drop invis, buy the spell / component and then gate out or maybe /shout for another invis to get out :)
Or maybe enchanter illusions will be able to be put on other players and then u can /shout for that instead.
Or maybe make it so that you have to find the trainer in the ciry by going in throught the city sewer system. Maybe Brad and Co. could bring back the old clicky Mask of the Deciever.....heheheh