(Update to this has been posted below in a reply. I will come back and update this soon! Don't have time at the moment.)
I know titles have been discussed a little bit in other threads, but I didn't find anything regarding progeny titles, so I thought I would start a new thread and see what people think.
For the record, I am a firm believer that titles should be very rare. I had a friend in EQ classic who won the title "of Qeynos" and got a special shield for winning a GM event. It was a pretty simple title, but man back in those days a title in EQ really meant something! And this title he got on like... a level 9 bard. It was a "Solve the riddle and find the GM" event. The title wasn't anything special, but I was crazy envious. And too many titles, like "the Cat's Meow" or whatever stupid thing, really breaks immersion for me. I want to be so immersed that when I'm blinded in game I close my eyes IRL.
That being said, I think it would be really cool to add titles to the progeny system, and may further encourage players to make use of the progeny system. I imagine that there will be a limit on how many times you can progeny, at least early in the game, so for now let's just say you can only make use of the progeny system twice with one character.
So you've hit max level, you've gotten your raid gear, you're bored with crafting, and you don't really want to play an alt (or you want to take a long break from your alt). Well, progeny time! Get those extra stats before the coming expansion! Bam... you pull the trigger on it and you're back at level 1. Upon reaching max level again, Kaen Blackheart becomes Lord Kaen Blackheart (YES, I think you should keep your last name if you progeny). You're ready AGAIN to progeny (if anyone is crazy enough to do this twice)... Lord Kaen Blackheart becomes... I don't know... something cooler. High Lord Kaen Blackheart. Or Lord Prince Kaen Blackheart. You get the point.
**UPDATE**
The progeny titles should come at max level, meaning after you progeny and once again attain max level... THEN you get the title.
Instead of inevitably (eventually) having a bunch of the same titles running around, people get to choose from a list of titles once they max out their first progeny.
For example:
First Progeny Second Progeny
Prince High Prince
Lord High Lord
Duke Arch Duke
Master Grandmaster
Those are the ones I kinda came up with without thinking about it too much, but I think it would be really awesome to have a pretty hefty list of things to choose from. This would keep the titles fairly diverse, and handing them out only when people reached max level on their progeny would really mean something.
(Also, for the record, I think people should be able to keep their gear (including raid gear) when using the progeny system but maybe their stats have a stat cap. (I imagine it would be kinda lame to have to get raid gear on the same character twice, but I trust the devs to come up with a good solution for this.)
Just wanted to chime in and say that I love the idea of rare titles. If players become known for something (being the first one to obtain an item or kill a boss), a title for their accomplishment would certainly add to the world/server community. I'm not so sure if I'm a fan of the idea of starting from level 1 again for a title.
EvilPigBoss said:Just wanted to chime in and say that I love the idea of rare titles. If players become known for something (being the first one to obtain an item or kill a boss), a title for their accomplishment would certainly add to the world/server community. I'm not so sure if I'm a fan of the idea of starting from level 1 again for a title.
First character - Dorotea the Dauntless. Second character - Dorotea Daughter of the Suicide. Third Character - Dorotea of the Clan of the Self-murdering.
I like the idea of a progeny system quite a bit but I don't see the need for the original character to die for it. Why not just let later characters learn and benefit from the experience of the old seasoned matriarch but if you want to roll out the old biddy with her inferior non-progenized abilities you can.
This is off-topic a bit though the thread *has* veered to discussion of the progeny system. On the original topic I agree that titles should be uncommon and awarded for accomplishment.
I've been playing LOTRO again while waiting for Pantheon - not a bad choice for me since it takes quite a while to get a character to level cap. That game has an utterly inane assemblage of impressive sounding but totally meaningless titles - reinforcing my agreement with the OP.
dorotea said:First character - Dorotea the Dauntless. Second character - Dorotea Daughter of the Suicide. Third Character - Dorotea of the Clan of the Self-murdering.
I like the idea of a progeny system quite a bit but I don't see the need for the original character to die for it.
Zorkon said:I would think titles such as Sir and Lord be reserved for things much more rare. For Pogeny I would expect simply II and III etc.
I know I will be in the massive minority when it comes to this but I have no use for titles. I let my actions speak for myself. Dont need a title over my head saying "look at me". If they do put them in the game I would hope there is an option to turn them off.
I even dislike last names and have never used one in game.
Aatu said:I know I will be in the massive minority when it comes to this but I have no use for titles. I let my actions speak for myself. Dont need a title over my head saying "look at me". If they do put them in the game I would hope there is an option to turn them off.
I even dislike last names and have never used one in game.
What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?
Elder patriarch
big Alpha
matriarch
with extra resistance to certain climates etc?
There should be more to it than titles for it to have any meaning at all I think
Also have to be careful with overuse of such titles
"great high savior prince of lords"
What would be the use and the valuable message in such cases?
Zorkon said:I would think titles such as Sir and Lord be reserved for things much more rare. For Pogeny I would expect simply II and III etc.
I agree with this. I would prefer it to be simple and clean as well. Save the better titles for completing epic quests or becoming a master crafter IMO.
Or how about the title is given to the Main character- along the lines of the grades of nobility- like in the Wiki link below.
For instance the main would get title EMPEROR, and first progeny get the title King, and the down the line to Viscount as more progenies were made.the last getting Gentleman as the title.
Nice table at the bottom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks
Feyshtey said:Fluffy said:What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?
Nothing.
If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning.
So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?
Ok
By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :D
Sticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward
Fluffy said:Feyshtey said:Fluffy said:What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?
Nothing.
If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning.
So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?
Ok
By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :DSticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward
Well actually I think this thread is moving into the area of not knowing enough about Progeny again. My idea of Progeny is obviously different than yours. I see Progeny not as abandoning the char but taking it to the next level. Where WOW has 100 levels, Pantheon will have a secound or third generation level 50. To NOT Progeny is to abandon your character.
My guess for how Progeny will work is at level 50 Wizard Zorkon will be able to Progeny and keep one skill.. let's say I choose to keep fireball. For my progeny I choose a Cleric. This level 1 Cleric "Zorkon II" now also has access to a level 1 fireball. Up to 50 I go building a Cleric that also has a Fireball spell. At 50 I choose a heal spell line (full heal, HoT, .. just one not the full arsenal) and I Progeny again. This time "Zorkon III" might be a Fireball flinging Healing Enchanter or Warrior.
There was concern that this might be game breaking... but I don't think so.. one wouldent have the full ability of the previous class.. just one line (think WarWizard) and is it really any more game breaking than a level 100?
Yeah that's not going to happen Zorkon. I am pretty positive that one class will not (and imo should not) get abilities of another. Using your logic, in a few years, when you can level one character from 1 to max in a day or two, one theoretically could make a seriously op character.
I believe it is VRs intention for a progeny to have an advantage at ther lower levels based on the abilities of the parent. General abilities such as tradeskills, fishing, lock picking etc. so instead of starting at level 1, that person could start at level 50 (/200) on a trade skill. Or have access to some keyed dungeon. Or have the ability to understands certain foreign languages. Or not be kos to an otherwise kos race if the parent had worked on faction etc.
Durp said:Yeah that's not going to happen Zorkon. I am pretty positive that one class will not (and imo should not) get abilities of another. Using your logic, in a few years, when you can level one character from 1 to max in a day or two, one theoretically could make a seriously op character.
I believe it is VRs intention for a progeny to have an advantage at ther lower levels based on the abilities of the parent. General abilities such as tradeskills, fishing, lock picking etc. so instead of starting at level 1, that person could start at level 50 (/200) on a trade skill. Or have access to some keyed dungeon. Or have the ability to understands certain foreign languages. Or not be kos to an otherwise kos race if the parent had worked on faction etc.
Yea, your possably right. I just don't see that being enough to get people to Progeny, any more than a title. At least I wouldent. Well know more when there ready.
Manouk said:Or how about the title is given to the Main character- along the lines of the grades of nobility- like in the Wiki link below.
For instance the main would get title EMPEROR, and first progeny get the title King, and the down the line to Viscount as more progenies were made.the last getting Gentleman as the title.
Nice table at the bottom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks
After the first year you'd have a thousand guys, per shard, running around with the title Emperor and eventually Gentleman, which should be a common title, will be the rarest.
Just no.
Splitting up Progeny Abilities and Titles :
For a discussion on possible progeny 'Abilities' or mechanics: can I suggest looking here -
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2870/progeny-system
While for Titles ...
From my perspective I consider 2 options (since the progeny system has not be fully revealed) to cover the main possibilities. Either you need to 'retire' or 'kill off' your character to make a progeny, or you merely create a new alt as a progeny (presumably having met some needed criteria, eg minimum level 25 etc)
Pantheon may well have one or both of these options: it is rather dependent on the rationale for progeny in the first place.
Option #1 titles:
Since these would naturally stem from a previous character:
I would perhaps envisage these to be in the 'Wulfgar, son of Magnus', 'Wulfgar Magnusson' or 'Wulfgar II' style.
Option #2 titles:
I imagine more of a Roman 'familias' feel to this form of progeny. Here, Alts would be from the same family (whether related or adopted) and would have some reputation from the rest of family transferred about the members. Thus, it would be about adding glory to the 'family' and not just about the individual family member's deeds. Thus, great things done will relflect well on the family name as well as the individual - i.e. the others (of the family) could gain a smidge of reflected glory.
Thus 'Wolfgar, Patriarch of House Whiteclaw', 'Arriene, Scion of House Whiteclaw' and for low level Alts 'Derek Whiteclaw'
Evoras, may have to think of a Family name...
Zorkon said:To NOT Progeny is to abandon your character.
We indeed know little about the progeny system at this point,but not sure I like the idea that it would be obligatory to progeny a character to gain a needed edge
"You need a heal and cc at least so first progeny your character as a cleric and enchanter ,then get back to us" If other players would say that i'd never come back :D but you know what people are like sometimes :D
I'm all for a progeny system,as long as it remains a choice.
If to not progeny means we *abandon* our character,it would mean that we would be not allowed to be contented with the character we have.
Maybe just add The 2nd , The 3rd , The 4th ... and in diffrent collors or fontstyle for each prognency step with option to not show, simple and relativly discret.
Fluffy said:Feyshtey said:Fluffy said:What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?
Nothing.
If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning.
So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?
Ok
By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :DSticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward
If you are content sitting on the couch every night watching sitcoms with your lover then isnt that its own reward?
If you choose to celebrate someone who demonstrates a love for thier current status without desire to change, isnt that also its own reward?
If instead you are disgruntled because Joe and Jim, who've been together for 10 years get to go on vacations together, and take dance lessons together, and choose to show their dedication to one another in a myriad of other ways, and all you do is sit on the couch and watch stupid sitcoms, then why should anyone attempt to make you feel like what you have is just as good as what Jim and Joe have?