Feign death, not my favorite ability, especially when it's abused to train through a dungeon to the end for the boss encounter or something. I've seen it done.
But come on mobs, are you really that stupid to think a guy just died from fear? You didn't even hit him, why would you think he's dead after you started to chase him for 2 seconds? Educate yourself random mob 001! If you didn't cast a spell on him, or shoot him with an arrow or at least land an uppercut on him, he's not dead you dummy. Go over to the corpse and curb stomp his skull just to verify! You're an embarrassment to the public education system.
Honestly though, shouldn't mobs at least inflict some degree of damage before Feign Death is allowed to work?
Not a bad idea, I never really understood the reasoning behind FD and why everybody just accepted that the person died either.
Perhaps some mobs should ignroe FD altogether. Giant dragons/being with super strong senses would know he wasn't dead (could hear his heart beat), zombies may try and eat his dead body or maybe they are just bad monsters and like stabbing dead people.
try this thread in the monk forum:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6237/feign-death
Yes, they are that stupid.
They attack the guy who insults their mother instead of the guys doing a bunch of damage or the guys healing.
Sometimes game mechanics must take precedence over realism
Kittik said:Feign death, not my favorite ability, especially when it's abused to train through a dungeon to the end for the boss encounter or something. I've seen it done.
I bet you haven't .. at least not in Pantheon.
In the last stream it is clearly seen that mobs finish their cast on a monk even though FD was successful. I bet, unless you have outleveled a dungeon, you won't make it to the boss encounter. At least not so easily.
This is a fantasy game. Some things make sense, some won't. Like my previous poster said: "taunt" makes no sense either. "Mobs waiting in a room while obviously hearing that their friends are killed in the other room" makes no sense either. "Mobs hitting the plate wearing tank instead of the leather/cloth wearing healer/caster" makes no sense. "Mobs seeing that you go invis and doing nothing about it" makes no sense.
Let's just face it: Mobs are VERY stupid and it is better that way because otherwise this game would not make much fun.
HaskarMadnome said:Kittik said:Feign death, not my favorite ability, especially when it's abused to train through a dungeon to the end for the boss encounter or something. I've seen it done.
I bet you haven't .. at least not in Pantheon.
In the last stream it is clearly seen that mobs finish their cast on a monk even though FD was successful. I bet, unless you have outleveled a dungeon, you won't make it to the boss encounter. At least not so easily.
This is a fantasy game. Some things make sense, some won't. Like my previous poster said: "taunt" makes no sense either. "Mobs waiting in a room while obviously hearing that their friends are killed in the other room" makes no sense either. "Mobs hitting the plate wearing tank instead of the leather/cloth wearing healer/caster" makes no sense. "Mobs seeing that you go invis and doing nothing about it" makes no sense.
Let's just face it: Mobs are VERY stupid and it is better that way because otherwise this game would not make much fun.
The good thing with Pantheon, is htat we are going to be seeing mobs that are not "as stupid" as they often were in EQ1, the useful thing about EQ1 when FD pulling, was that if you broke the line of sight with a caster, it often interrupted the caster targetting the FD user. That does not seem to be the case here in Pantheon, I remember atleast one or two pulls where Cohh ran around a corner/pillar and the mob continued casting at him, after they finished they ran to him, but Cohh hiding did not interrupt the cast itself.
Also, mobs being very stupid in Pantheon is going to take a nosedive - to a point anyway. Due to the mob focus system (I cannot think of what it was at the moment) mobs might decided to ignore the tank and focus on another person, due to the mob just hating those wizards/enchanters/summoners/randomclass_001 etc... Which I think is great. no more afk auto-tank/dps/heal, people will need to stay on their toes. I cannot overstate how annoyed I have been before when a waizard is just chain casting big spells in other MMO's and dropping mob targets by 10-15% health per cast (guestimate) and the mob does not seem to be thinking anything along the lines of: yah know, that guy just took off 15% of my health....maybe I should smack HIM once or twice. Now the mob staying focused on the tank is a good thing and can quite often be attributed to the awesomeness that are tanks, but sometimes the mobs should be mad enough to hop to someone else, especially if people doing DPS are blasting away with everything on "full." I cannot wait to see this system in person: finally some consequences.
HaskarMadnome said:I bet you haven't .. at least not in Pantheon.
In the last stream it is clearly seen that mobs finish their cast on a monk even though FD was successful.
Mobs did that in EQ as well. Eventually we got AAs to give a chance to allow FD to persist through a successfull spell cast.
Let us be honest, if the mobs were even a tenth so intelligent as the players, there would be no game because the mobs are faster, stronger and more accurate than the players . More importantly they outnumber the players . Do you think that you would have ever arrived living to the Royals in Chardok if the guards at the first bridge sent a runner that hostiles attempt to penetrate the city and that a general mobilisation is asked for ?
The only advantage the players have, is their intelligence . Remove that and you have no game just a bloody slaughter of every and any PC group . So yes, it is necessary that the mobs be exactly so stupid that the players have a reasonable chance at survival . And that means extremely stupid indeed . To make a comparison, it means more stupid than bees or ants - for instance when hornets try to invade a bee hive, the bees mobilise and often destroy the invaders if their numbers are not too high .
Now if a hornet FDed, the bees would indeed rip his head and limbs off just to be sure :)
As mentioned here..
Personally? I hope feign death means that each monster on the feign death aggro list runs to the "body" and hits it once to make sure it's "dead" and such hits cannot be blocked, parried, absorbed, mitigated or in any way avoided, always hit, and always crit. That means if you want to FD, that's fine, but you will still run the risk of dying, even to grey mobs. It's not a 100% get-out-of-death-free card, and is less likely to be used for malicious training (without eating a death as the Monk).
@Vjek, why could the hits not be mitigated ? no person that will FD will strip or armor before doing so , also if FD mechanics become that gated then ....it wont be used. As powerfull as it seem I think FD are ok as they are with a certain % of failure. If FD's are in game then it will be gated to Lull(pacify) pulling Mezzer will almost become a requirement, of group will have to resort to become AoE group which will greatly hinder single dps class.
Rendall said:@Vjek, why could the hits not be mitigated ? no person that will FD will strip or armor before doing so , also if FD mechanics become that gated then ....it wont be used. As powerfull as it seem I think FD are ok as they are with a certain % of failure. If FD's are in game then it will be gated to Lull(pacify) pulling Mezzer will almost become a requirement, of group will have to resort to become AoE group which will greatly hinder single dps class.
Considering how incredibly abused/abusive/toxic the mechanic is today in EQ1, sounds good to me. And I played a Monk. But I've seen a single Monk train an entire zone on all the other groups for hours and hours just to secure the zone for their guild. Malicious training is... just too easy to abuse, and really, there is no recourse. Players have no option except to leave / give in to the toxic Monk.
But sure, Rendall, if you agree in principle, and mitigation is the only thing you'd retain? I'd be good with that. :)
The team said they would address the toxic and abusive player regarding trains and zones/mobs lockdown. But I agree It can and will be used in malicious ways.
It's been proven by humanity that when given power it will be abused one way or another.
I personnaly will resort to AoE grouping/grinding, if the game allow such a feature with class having enough AoE on a cooldown that is reasonable, as much as possible when given the chance no mezzer style.
So far, everything they've shown (infinite leash length, no-locked-encounters) would indicate AoE grind groups should be possible, in Pantheon.
The only missing piece is an AoE stun. If any class has that, then it should be possible, and continue to be the most efficient XP/hour of any type of group activity.
If any I would assume Enchanter would get the AoE stun. Now we could speculate all day about it, untill we see the in game value on xp etc it's hard to tell.
AoE stun while being the best thing that can be used given the stack hit too hard on the tank to AoE grind, doesnt stop a group from killing lower cons which would not require AE stun (given the xp value combine surpass a single target) within the same amount of time spent killing/meditating.
We'll have to wait and see !
Math crunch inc ! And according to your forum Avatar you'll be doing em also Vjek :)
I believe feign death should be improved upon a little. But face it, a monk has little melee defence and if they were chased by more than a couple melee and need to get hit by them for feign death to work I fear that with a caster casting anf 2 or 3 melee beating on him to get thier fill of damage for feign death to work you may see more real deaths than fake ones. As the op stated I have seen a few trains in eq with a bunch of mobs chasing a monk but more so i have been trained a whole lot more from bards trying to pull the wole zone just to show you how stupid they are. In my 6+ years of playing a druid I have never kited one mob. Never. I always single out a mob and root dot him in a safe place when solo. I never saw the benefit of running the entire zone and training people just to get a kill. Same way I think it is for monks. I am sure they would rather out dps a mob than pull a few just to get thier pick. Pulling and fd is usually a move useed in grouping and I think it is very efficient. The guys who pull to the bottom of a dungeon just to train people and get to the boss are just idiots who live to spoil others enjoyment.
As far as pulling mobs in groups my druid did a great job using harmony-snare and run back to group and let the snared mob catch up. In the instance of a double pull I usually just rooted the second and we would get him after root broke.
But back to the point, feign death may need a little work in beta but is an awesome tool for pulling and mob adds. Especially in zones like the planes etc.
Sir I don't think you ever played Dungeons and Dragons, I can't remember the edition it started, but Feign Death was an ability monks got close to level 20. I assume like a bunch of the other ideas/mechanics in EQ (and now in Pantheon) that is where the Idea originated from.
Also if you look at some Eastern Legends that was something Buddhist Warrior Monks allegedly could do (there is also afew accounts of Japanese Shinobi doing similar things using I think pufferfish venom or something like that)
Also keep in mind this a pre modern world, generally people would be... Well Stupid and superstitious.
Isaya said:... I have been trained a whole lot more from bards trying to pull the wole zone just to show you how stupid they are...
You have to understand that they did not "train" you on purpose. They were swarm kitting zone (25 targets If I recall right) and far from being stupid.
And actually very skilled and knowledgeable about mechanics while strafing on selo to avoid being touched at all by the mobs, while being able to be close enough in range to put DoTs dmg in. while twisting songs and swaping instrument etc to maximize Dmg and Effectiveness.
Just so much going on there that they probably didnt even saw you trying to survive with a pack of 25 mobs , and often in 1st person view.
I understand that in your mind thought the result was the same, but it does not actually mean they intended to kill you, there is nuance there.
Wani said:the useful thing about EQ1 when FD pulling, was that if you broke the line of sight with a caster, it often interrupted the caster targetting the FD user.that's not true. mobs didn't care about LOS or usually even range, once they started casting. breaking LOS was important because after the spell hit you, they couldn't cast another until they had LOS again. but you often had (and still have) to carefully time your FD to get it off while no spell is being cast on you.
letsdance said:try this thread in the monk forum:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6237/feign-death
Yup. I totally agree with the OP, which is why this has also already been discussed in this thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2475/my-xmas-wish-for-feign-death
And there's this one too: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2650/feign-death
People claim that FD and taunt are unrealistic. Nobody seems to complain when a toon can wave her hands or make a shiny appear and a mob will suddenly stop doing anything for a while.
It's time to get over the logic of mechanics, accept them for what they are intended to be, and play the game the way it's meant to be played.
Without the wailing and gnashing of teeth while whining that it's not realistic.