Just watched the most resent twitch with Cohn. Good stuff.
Rare item drops from common mobs. How rare (1:6000) and what level (Legendary, Fabled, Epic)?
If a bandit has a 1 in a million chance of dropping the same thing the raid boss drops ever time, I might just farm a million bandits. But if a bandit drops something compariable to the raid mob but not quite as good, it'll be a nice easter egg, but I'll forgo the 27 hours of grinding bandits and join a raid.
Also, super excited that rare crafting materials can be found on mobs. Question there though, will some rare needed crafting components ONLY come from mobs?
And finally,
The rare item a bandit drops, is it always going to be the same rare item? That gets boring. "Yep, there's another Bronze Sword of YOLO from a bandit." Can you please have a nice loot table on mobs. Even if it's complete trash loot, giant loot tables are awesome. Getting the same thing from mobs is boring.
getting special items from trash mobs is boring. no sense of accomplishment at all. good items should be from named that are a little harder - more risk, better reward.
getting everything from everything is even more boring. knowing where i have to go to get what i want, is interesting. yes that means the bandit only drops the bronze sword of YOLO and not also the fabled cracked staff nor the cleric orb of healing. to get those i need to camp the goblins or the giants.
>getting everything from everything is even more boring. knowing where i have to go to get what i want, is interesting<
I couldn't possibly disagree more. Not disagree in the sense that you are wrong - there is no right or wrong answer here it is all subjective. But not knowing what a mob will drop is *far* more interesting than having a *roadmap* and knowing that if you kill mob x you will get item y or at least have a percentage chance at it.
dorotea said:>getting everything from everything is even more boring. knowing where i have to go to get what i want, is interesting<
I couldn't possibly disagree more. Not disagree in the sense that you are wrong - there is no right or wrong answer here it is all subjective. But not knowing what a mob will drop is *far* more interesting than having a *roadmap* and knowing that if you kill mob x you will get item y or at least have a percentage chance at it.
So random displacement of items? These can be spread out between different mobs in the zone, or Expansion in total.
So the boss or the random encounters could drop it too? - Would make it completely interesting. Joe slaughtered XX mob in the zone and links UBAR Gloves just dropped off a Cave bat etc...
Leaving the boss mob group all in AWE! hehe i love it.
However, what purpose is boss mobs? we need to have over the top drops on them too. Should it be much better then what you have on normal mobs? i honestly think you need the risk vrs reward system in place. You need a group to get UBAR Gloves if you killed xxx mob. Competition will be big again, which is ok but a lesser version of gear pieces is always welcome. Even if it is crafted gear instead of raid, or higher end gear drops.
Giving everything away to raiders might push the game in the wrong direction again, so it is much easier to kill this boss, to get Ubar Gloves, so whats next?? well lets make another Expansion and give them more.
NO that is not the way to handle this. Slow down the raiders too, make the game more a crafting game. If you kill XX boss you can randomly get these pieces which are a higher teir part to make this higher piece. A standard drop is ok complete Ubar gloves but no where near the higher end crafting loot tables, or racial gear parts.
Loot tables must be the hardest things to figure out differently, to what we are not used to. Everyone just plunks a Copy and Paste system for mobs, and change or add a few off the different zone creatures. This is the easy way out i have been not so proud to duplicate in my hosting servers.
Just rambling on.
Kittik said:...
And finally,
The rare item a bandit drops, is it always going to be the same rare item? That gets boring. "Yep, there's another Bronze Sword of YOLO from a bandit." Can you please have a nice loot table on mobs. Even if it's complete trash loot, giant loot tables are awesome. Getting the same thing from mobs is boring.
I agree with this completely, I've always liked large loot tables. I don't think random mobs should drop rares as good as named mobs can drop, nor should a named drop rares as good as bosses, etc. but I do like the idea that a random mob may drop a few really good items with a very low % drop rate.
I honestly never liked the notion that a mob has 1 rare item to drop and thats the only place to get it, it leads to unnecessary camping of said mob.
Ugh. There should be no ranking scale of items, normal/epic/lengendary. What purpose does that serve? Why can't the items just BE. Why do we have to slap these diablo style names onto things? Oh that sword has BLUE TEXT! We don't need that crap in a game that isn't spamming dozens of items at you per day. When you get an upgrade, you'll know it, you don't need flavored text to make it stand out.
letsdance said:getting special items from trash mobs is boring. no sense of accomplishment at all. good items should be from named that are a little harder - more risk, better reward.
getting everything from everything is even more boring. knowing where i have to go to get what i want, is interesting. yes that means the bandit only drops the bronze sword of YOLO and not also the fabled cracked staff nor the cleric orb of healing. to get those i need to camp the goblins or the giants.
I would disagree because of how rare it is. For example, in EQ you could get a really good haste belt or haste cloak (not quite raid quality, but still very good) from Sebilis that was a 1/1000 chance to drop. I only saw one or two ever in a few years of playing. When they dropped, most people never even saw one before. It didn't feel cheap at all.
but it looks like people want get spammed with dozen items per day :-/ it's the only way to put many different items on every mob. the problem with that is, that you get lots of unusable things but hardly what you actually want. my experience with random drops in EQ is, when you wanted a SoS you spent days in chardok and hoped for a random drop, but chances are you still didn't get one. maybe you got a SBS instead, that you could give a twink. i'd rather have a camp that i can do for a better chance for my item and less trash. mobs in EQ had a rare and a common drop, so you still don't always get the same item from the same mob and you're not guaranteed to even see the named anyways. any suggestion that leads to higher drop rates causes item inflation, which i think is against VRs intention.
i hope they stick to what they said in the FAQ, and that means a low amount of different special items.
13.9 What is your philosophy on item proliferation and drops?
Our desire to bring back the value and personality of items drives our item design. This means that the frequency of upgrades will be slower and when you do get a new piece of gear not only will the experience be memorable but so will the item. We want you to collect your items and be able to remember their names. When you get that epic item or rare drop after an incredible dungeon crawl, we want you to be in awe of what you have accomplished and the reward that came from it. Items will be memorable, deserved, cherished, and desired.
Rare is cool. Best in slot isn't. I feel like this is a rehash of an old thread, but, absolutely under no circumstances should extremely powerful items come from random mobs.
In EQOA, we had Ceremonial Vestment and at least one other ALL/ALL robe that was an extremely, extremely rare random drop. However, its function was almost entirely cosmetic as the stat bonuses were negligible.
I'm all for rewarding people for a variety of activites, but killing a million bats to get a best in slot item is unacceptable to me.
Krixus said:Ugh. There should be no ranking scale of items, normal/epic/lengendary. What purpose does that serve? Why can't the items just BE. Why do we have to slap these diablo style names onto things? Oh that sword has BLUE TEXT! We don't need that crap in a game that isn't spamming dozens of items at you per day. When you get an upgrade, you'll know it, you don't need flavored text to make it stand out.
Yep I agree. Just have the items stand on their own. It doesn't need special tiers or colours to split items up into different groups.
bigdogchris said:I would disagree because of how rare it is. For example, in EQ you could get a really good haste belt or haste cloak (not quite raid quality, but still very good) from Sebilis that was a 1/1000 chance to drop. I only saw one or two ever in a few years of playing. When they dropped, most people never even saw one before. It didn't feel cheap at all.
yeah it's not boring if it's so rare and you're lucky enough to get that rare random uberdrop. but in that case it's boring because if you want that item you can spend months there without ever even seeing it. i also don't see how it gives you any sense of accomplishment if you get the item as a random drop from your 835th froglok dar knight. for me, it would be more a "thank god its over" feeling. it's also more exciting when you see that named, knowing it might drop something good, than just killing anything, either without actually expecting anything, or being disappointed because you don't get anything.
I don't like rare dropped items like in WoW where it's 1/1000 chance that certain item is dropped from a mob. Why camp a mob for an item if you are not going to loot it anyway. It's what you accomplish in games what should count and not that you are extremely lucky. If chance to get an items from common mobs is less than 3-5% they should consider moving it to a boss instead. Same with bosses but instead they should consider remove it all together. The game should be about what you accomplish and not so much about luck. I rather prefer a round robin drop table instead of a drop table based on a dice.
No. No no no no! Please no vast random loot tables for desireable items. In a game like EQ (and I imagine this) I like knowing where I need to go for what I am after, it's very important to be able to plan what I want to do with my play time. There was absolutely no issue with certain mobs having a rare drop so you know which mob to hunt for what you need. You want a Forest Loop? Plan your nights around hunting giants in Kunark. Looking for the Dalnir monk set? You know exactly which Sarnak mobs might drop each piece and can hunt to fill your set.
There are few things so frustrating as very rare loot being entirely random, which is much like WoW's world drops. You literally cannot persue items like that and it is disheartening.
I like the idea of there being ultra rare drops similar to the Ceremonial Vestment, Spectre Robe, Bloodstone Breastplate, etc. from EQOA. I don't think trash mobs should ever drop something that is considered best in slot, but something that is really good, rare, flavorful? Absolutely. An ultra rare world loot table is something that provides a tiny layer of excitement with every mob killed. I would like to see this extend to raid trash mobs as well. I'm perfectly fine with there being loot in the game that you can't "plan" for. That's the point of making it really rare. If you want it, you better hope you get really lucky, or buy it from someone else. I don't like the idea of everything being purely linear in terms of item progression. Toss some odds and ends in there ... allow people to get uber lucky. Allow people to acquire items that really stand out ... and if someone else wants one, it isn't as simple as going to camp Mob X for the next 2 days to get it.
letsdance said:but it looks like people want get spammed with dozen items per day :-/ it's the only way to put many different items on every mob. the problem with that is, that you get lots of unusable things but hardly what you actually want. my experience with random drops in EQ is, when you wanted a SoS you spent days in chardok and hoped for a random drop, but chances are you still didn't get one. maybe you got a SBS instead, that you could give a twink. i'd rather have a camp that i can do for a better chance for my item and less trash. mobs in EQ had a rare and a common drop, so you still don't always get the same item from the same mob and you're not guaranteed to even see the named anyways. any suggestion that leads to higher drop rates causes item inflation, which i think is against VRs intention.
i hope they stick to what they said in the FAQ, and that means a low amount of different special items.
13.9 What is your philosophy on item proliferation and drops?
Our desire to bring back the value and personality of items drives our item design. This means that the frequency of upgrades will be slower and when you do get a new piece of gear not only will the experience be memorable but so will the item. We want you to collect your items and be able to remember their names. When you get that epic item or rare drop after an incredible dungeon crawl, we want you to be in awe of what you have accomplished and the reward that came from it. Items will be memorable, deserved, cherished, and desired.
I perceive that much differently than you. To me, that doesen't sound like a "low amount of different special items." It sounds like the frequency of "upgrading" your items will be slower. If you get 5 belts with the same stats but a different resist, that wouldn't necessarily count as an "upgrade" but it would count as a "different special item."
Here is an excerpt from "The Pantheon Difference" page:
In Pantheon, there often won't simply be a weapon or piece of gear that is the absolute best item for your character’s class and level. Instead, many items will be more situational, and the player will need to ask himself, 'where am I?', 'what am I going to fight next?', and 'who in my group is what class, and what items do they have that may help defeat the next encounter?' Items that protect against climates/atmospheres (areas of extreme heat or cold, or disease, or absolute darkness) will often be important. So also will 'bane' items that are especially effective against certain types of mobs (for example, the Undead, or Dragonkind).
My preference is to maintain the scarcity of items and in-game currency, so that when you obtain something, it has value. Keeping that in mind, I would also like to see some very rare or ultra rare items drop from very common mobs. Nothing wrong with allowing a crafter who is out in the wild killing spiders for silk to at least have the opportunity to have something meaningful drop from those spiders as well. I believe it gives everyone some extra incentive to be out there actively exploring and hunting.
Remember going into The Deep going to the invisible bridge looking at it and thinking oh neat and then promplty falling to my death. Bridge you could see was a trap invisible bridge next to it was where you actually crossed. Anyway I remember going all the way to the back of that zone in a little corner to a place holder npc usually a Thought Horror Corruptor, and I remember camping this mob until Koxiux the Imperceptible would spawn. You would know what kind of loot the mob had because in his hand he either had a sword or the Wand of Imperceptibility in his hand. If he had that wand you knew you were getting that wand as well. if he didn't have it you knew your camp was not over yet.
I would love to see them implement this kind of loot table as it was always neat. For those that do not know that wand was a shrink clickie and was essentially required for raids at least in our guild it was.
oneADseven said:If you get 5 belts with the same stats but a different resist, that wouldn't necessarily count as an "upgrade" but it would count as a "different special item."i'm afraid that you are right. but how would it be "memorable, deserved, cherished, and desired" to find the 5th version of belt XY with a different resist? how am i going to "remember their names" and "be in awe of what i have accomplished"? those things can only be achieved by a low item count.
letsdance said:oneADseven said:If you get 5 belts with the same stats but a different resist, that wouldn't necessarily count as an "upgrade" but it would count as a "different special item."i'm afraid that you are right. but how would it be "memorable, deserved, cherished, and desired" to find the 5th version of belt XY with a different resist? how am i going to "remember their names" and "be in awe of what i have accomplished"? those things can only be achieved by a low item count.
Gotta keep it in context. Those quotes you are referencing are regarding epic items or rare loot acquired from an incredible dungeon crawl. If something is epic or acquired from a legendary dungeon crawl, I imagine that being a setting that you don't see all that often ... not a situation where you farm a mob for days/weeks on end to acquire a specific item. Those quotes are probably related to conquering the most difficult dungeons/raids or completing the longest/toughest quests. I think there will be a balance of really rare/desirable pieces that stand out in a way that very few other pieces can compare to(epic gear). Beyond that, there will be plenty of other rare/semi-rare gear that has a variety of stat/resist twists that can compare to each other (situational gear)
oneADseven said:Gotta keep it in context. Those quotes you are referencing are regarding epic items or rare loot acquired from an incredible dungeon crawl.
no they aren't. the only part of that that refers to incredible dungeon crawls is the awe of what you have accomplished - and that actually didn't strike me as being exclusive to incredible dungeon crawls but those rather being an example. but everything else is from items in general. for example "when you do get a new piece of gear..." is not related to how you get it, nor is "Items will be..." and especially not "Our desire to bring back the value and personality of items drives our item design." these must be true for all items.
Kittik said: The reason I like large loot tables is because that could help prevent camps for items.well, what it really does is, you now have multiple camps (with a reduced drop chance) for the same item instead of just one camp. something they are going to achieve anyways with shards.