Normally I wouldn't post in such a rambling style but I've been thinking a lot about critical hits for some reason and I'd like to just open a discussion on how important these can be to a games flow.
Crits are like mini feedback rewards that make you feel some instant gratification. Some games do an excellent job of this and some games fail miserably. One thing I like when I'm playing a game like LoL or something is that when your character crits its a seperate animation with more weight and impact. This really sells the strike and just feels good to me.
I like the idea of every type of ability being able to crit not just damage and heals. For instance it would be great to see crit debuffs, mez, short term buffs, active defensive moves, etc...
One of the things I enjoyed most about playing Vanguard was the critical hits that opened up "chain" moves for a choice between 2-3 optional abilities not on your hot bar directly. This added great variety to combat allowing you to switch up what finisher you used based on what was happening.
As an example: Deep in a dungeon respawns are happening in the room you are in. Tank brings in a 3 pull that quickly turns into more with respawns. The enchanter springs to work and starts delivering mez... and bam crit mez happens, the chain opens and the choice of 2 finishers pops up. Choice 1 is a short term ae mez that emits out from the mob and Choice 2 strengthens the mez for a guaranteed 1 min of cc.
In the example above the choice made by the chanter could mean the diffence between a full wipe and a narrow victory. Maybe the chanter picked the ae and then quickly locked down a bunch of weaker mobs or maybe the chanter strengthened the mez on the harder mob he landed the crit on.
I like stuff like this and it happened in Vanguard quite a bit...
On to the actual added damage that critical strike can do. I feel this should start at a 25% bonus to damage base. Starting at 50% is just too much let alone games that crits do 100% bonus damage right out the gates. Starting a bit lower allows room for growth with +critical damage modifiers on endgame items.
Watching the streams has been a ton of fun and it's great to see so much progress in such a short time. Seeing all the layers of combat get added in is a real treat and I appreciate the great look into the early stages of development.
Thanks a ton for reading,
Kiz~
Should mobs be given the same combat abilities? If a group wiped because an enemy got a lucky critical would this be an unfair disaster ("we did everything perfectly and suddenly boom we were lying on our backs looking at the roof and not enjoying it as much as usual") or a wonderful testament to the challenge of the fights and the intelligence of Pantheon's mobs?
Serious question - some games do base enemy abilities off of player abilities and if player criticals become more important maybe the mobs will get the same.
The animation I see in my mind isn't my character with a special critical success animation it is a mob jumping up and down screaming "ding" as her henchmen yell "grats".
I'd love to see a system that had a more complex critical system. Maybe even something that worked together with other classes. Perhaps a warrior knocked a shield from the hands of the mob you were fighting allowing a caster a clear line of sight at the enemy so they could land a critical hit on them. Or maybe a monk did a critical with a throwing weapon when pulling snaring the mob they were trying to pull so when the monk tried to FD split the other mobs would walk back to their spawn points but the one the monk was trying to pull would be split because they were snared.
There are all kinds of cool ideas that I can think of for this system. It should really be about classes working together though. Maybe if one class gets a critical hit it would open up the mob to being vulnerable to other attacks from other classes. This system could be as complex or as simple as the developers wanted but it would add so much more depth to the combat system compared to EQ that I think that it would be quite fun to play in a group and work out what the best synergy for that particular situation was.
Mathir said:Sunmistress said:In EQ there was a bone crunching sound whenever you or the mob rolled a D20 hit.
That was cool AF
I feel this absolutely *has* to make it into this game. Seems like a simple thing that made a serious impact and impression on the playerbase.
*CRUNCH*
Sunmistress tells the group "I am such a MFing bawss"
Personally I would rather see resources put more towards content. I am fine with criticals being EQ like and not having a bunch of stuff to worry with clicking when it happens. VG was ok on that but the basic crit system is fine with me. What I dont want are those crazy group chain abilities where someones ability triggers another class then anothers etc. Good ole fashioned combat is perfect.
I love crits, including seeing them on healing and other things as well. I also like chains.
What I don't really like is having everything tied to crit so that it becomes the most important aspect of your build. If chains are powerful, and criticals are what unlocks them, then it limits play styles and builds. I would prefer to see crits based on something that is a little more out of the player's control. I would almost suggest that crit chance be static, removed from item stats, and only increased by special abilities like combos or counters, to reward players for playing well and properly utilizing their skills.
If everyone is seeking to play their class the same way and to obtain the same items due to crits, we have a problem.
tehtawd said: Sunm, your post made me laugh in a very quiet room. Lol. All your fault! i like concepts of criticals doing more than just being a big number. Its nice when there are synergies involved. -sent via mobile -Todd
As a Paladin I take mah DPS vry srs.
Volume on 11 so the whole raid can hear my crunches over discord (funny story in EQ there's a paladin disc that drastically increases our crit rate, sooooo many crunches)
ghost7 said:Sunmistress said:In EQ there was a bone crunching sound whenever you or the mob rolled a D20 hit.
That was cool AF
The sound made when you got 1 shot by a guard..I think that's what you're referring to.. was brutal. I loved it.
It wasn't just guards broham.
The bonesnapping sound was initiated by any hit that was a DI20. IE a max hit.
When damage in EQ was calculated there was a weighted die roll (involving mob atk score v your AC) this roll could be 1 - 20. The damage of the strike would tthen be [[DI * DI roll]+DB]
The reason guards would generally give you the bone crunching sound was because their atk value vs your AC was massively different, meaning on that weighted roll they had a much greater chance to roll a DI20 check.
Dullahan said:I love crits, including seeing them on healing and other things as well. I also like chains.
What I don't really like is having everything tied to crit so that it becomes the most important aspect of your build. If chains are powerful, and criticals are what unlocks them, then it limits play styles and builds. I would prefer to see crits based on something that is a little more out of the player's control. I would almost suggest that crit chance be static, removed from item stats, and only increased by special abilities like combos or counters, to reward players for playing well and properly utilizing their skills.
If everyone is seeking to play their class the same way and to obtain the same items due to crits, we have a problem.
Good post D,
Maybe there is a better way to present these type of chains than just a random chance.
Gives me some food for thought to mull over for a bit.
Thanks,
Kiz~
Dullahan said:I love crits, including seeing them on healing and other things as well. I also like chains.
What I don't really like is having everything tied to crit so that it becomes the most important aspect of your build. If chains are powerful, and criticals are what unlocks them, then it limits play styles and builds. I would prefer to see crits based on something that is a little more out of the player's control. I would almost suggest that crit chance be static, removed from item stats, and only increased by special abilities like combos or counters, to reward players for playing well and properly utilizing their skills.
If everyone is seeking to play their class the same way and to obtain the same items due to crits, we have a problem.
Well said!
