Noticed the Shaman has a mana regeneration buff in the latest Cohh stream, which is typically the norm for an Enchanter (Bard to a lesser extent.)
Thus ... ShamChanter.
This was alarming, being an Enchanter myself.
I know this is not EQ, but Shaman's in EQ had to bleed for mana via Cannibalize, and it wasn't sharable.
"Subject to change," I'm aware.
Just wanted to put this out there. Surely I'm not the only one to notice.
It would make more sense to me that if a lower quality mana regen buff was going to be given to another class, (outside Bard) that perhaps the Wizard would get it for added utility to the group. Pure DPS caster needs more group utility for dungeons. If Rogues now get CC, Wizards should get mana regen buff to make them appealing DPS options. Group mana regen buff doesn't really jive with the Shaman, though the self-cannabalize ability is iconic and should definitely be in.
I thought the same thing. Was a little surprised. But upon thinking about it, I don't think it's inherently a bad thing. It's still too early to really judge considering we don't know any numbers - we have no idea what the cost is or the regen rate, or anything else about it. We also don't really know enough about the other abilities that Shamans and Enchanters will have to determine the context or the effects it could have on balance. I think it's highly unlikely that one single ability will upset the balance that much.
I agree, mana regen as a shaman buff seems a bit out of place. Canni is indeed iconic and I'd love to see it make a return here. I also agree with granting wizards a sharable mana regen buff (imo, lesser than what an enchanter would bring) to add some utility. This seems to make a lot of sense.
It will certainly be interesting to see how the primary and secondary roles play out in Pantheon.
Having Rogues CC and Shamans provide mana regen is certainly a significant departure.
On one hand, I like that they addressed Rogues desirability beyond a content-dependent role (traps, poisons, devices that may or may not be good or bad) yet giving mana regen to the shaman makes that class... extraordinarily powerful.
From what I gathered, Shamans also get root, so that's Root, Mana Regen, Pet, DoTs, Heal, Slow, Stat buffs, Haste, potentially Cannibalize, plus more? That's a long list. :) It's not bad if you want to be a Shaman, for sure, but.. it creates some pretty significant class envy to overcome and/or balance to achieve.
It creates the potential situation that many classes will have so much role overlap that making a class distinctive is challenging. I was kind of hoping for the opposite, but.. /shrug
If we are spreading multi dimensionality around, shaman bases on EQ and what I have seen so far are the LEAST deserving of more outside of their traditional (which was pretty broad to begin with) skillset.
Wizards I could see a minor mana regen buff, and some other functionality to fill time, it appeared Zynxs was doing a whole lot of thumb twiddling while waiting on aggro (nnot her fault obviously). Which doesn't make for engaging play.
Some form of minor buffing could fill that time so that ppure casters don't feel dually punished and have something beneficial to do while they wait to be able to participate.
Just my personal thoughts on the matter.
Slippery slope giving everyone everything. Pantheon is supposed to be the antithesis of this mindset which has somewhat in turn regressed MMORPG's. There's like, a lot of MMORPG's where everyone has everything. Here, enjoy a participation award! Pantheon is attractive because that isn't happening here, or supposedly.
Still, hard to tell whether such a thing will go live, and if it does, what the numbers are to see if it still make the ENC's still in proper demand.
ENC's got like 4 things going for them: Charm, CC, the best haste spells, and the best mana regeneration spells.
Rogue's already got a portion of CC. Now there's Shaman's at least in this case with mana regen. I can understand this stuff with a Bard. Rogues and Shamans aren't Bards.
Now back in EQ there were multiple ways for mana regen outside of an ENC around. You could have a Necromancer dumping mana into someone at their own expense. Druids and Rangers had self buffs which gave themselves a bit of mana per tick. I believe Wizards had a familiar which gave them some mana per tick. But nowhere did any class ransack the Enchanter's mana bag of group-based mana regen stuff.
Referring to the 'loot pinata' reference to the latest stream, I don't want to see a 'skill pinata.'
Sharp. Edges. Pantheon is supposed to be a sign with sharp edges where something actually matters. Slippery Slope.
Granted, I have faith VR will do the right things in the end. I'm just concerned.
Keep up the good work guys.
SO, I just want to chime in on this for a second because I came across a great many Shammies in my EQ days that canni'ed too much and ultimately got low health agro.. I can see the concern for the mana buff but we don't know yet if it's as efficent as the enchanters, it could be a lesser degree say breeze from KEI.... That said, I think giving shammies breeze over cannibilizing to death is a far better mechanic unless they add something to the shammy's arsenal to help him recover health faster than the previous EQ versions. This is just an opinion though!
Vade said:Slippery slope giving everyone everything. Pantheon is supposed to be the antithesis of this mindset which has somewhat in turn regressed MMORPG's. There's like, a lot of MMORPG's where everyone has everything. Here, enjoy a participation award! Pantheon is attractive because that isn't happening here, or supposedly.
Still, hard to tell whether such a thing will go live, and if it does, what the numbers are to see if it still make the ENC's still in proper demand.
ENC's got like 4 things going for them: Charm, CC, a haste spell, and mana regeneration spells.
Rogue's already got a portion of CC. Now there's Shaman's at least in this case with mana regen. I can understand this stuff with a Bard. Rogues and Shamans aren't Bards.
Referring to the 'loot pinata' reference to the latest stream, I don't want to see a 'skill pinata.'
Sharp. Edges. Pantheon is supposed to be a sign with sharp edges where something actually matters. Slippery Slope.
Granted, I have faith VR will do the right things in the end. I'm just concerned.
Keep up the good work guys.
I agree with all except this: "ENC's got like 4 things going for them: Charm, CC, a haste spell, and mana regeneration spells." That was true in EQ, but I think especially in this case, we just need to wait to see if/how Enchanters will be different in Pantheon. Considering all of the new NPC dispositions and behavior among other things, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assume that Enchanters will have a lot more going for them because there will be more tools overall to spread around. It seems like Pantheon will have an increased depth, which means there will theoretically also be an increased amount of abilities to address such depth. So all I'm saying is it's possible to have some overlap and still have each class be individually desirable and unique because there are so many diverse qualities that are needed to deal with more diverse challenges in Terminus.
Beefcake said:You can't always find a Chanter in every group. Therefore, you need to have alternatives. Same with CC.
I am all for not making a single class an absolute requirement for efficient play, as long as it doesn't get spread around in such a way that it creates what it is trying to prevent.
Sunmistress said:Wizards I could see a minor mana regen buff, and some other functionality to fill time, it appeared Zynxs was doing a whole lot of thumb twiddling while waiting on aggro (nnot her fault obviously). Which doesn't make for engaging play.
What I saw was Zynks managing her aggro by feel (NOT by the crutch of a meter- Brava!) and was "eyes on the outside" calling out adds or possible roamers in the inbetween time. Go-go first person view!
But yes the mana regen could use a little boost- although "casting yourself dry, like a wizard" still has some sting to me.
Manouk said:Sunmistress said:Wizards I could see a minor mana regen buff, and some other functionality to fill time, it appeared Zynxs was doing a whole lot of thumb twiddling while waiting on aggro (nnot her fault obviously). Which doesn't make for engaging play.
What I saw was Zynks managing her aggro by feel (NOT by the crutch of a meter- Brava!) and was "eyes on the outside" calling out adds or possible roamers in the inbetween time. Go-go first person view!
But yes the mana regen could use a little boost- although "casting yourself dry, like a wizard" still has some sting to me.
Zynxs was mastering the art of aggro by feel and by death! (as I do) The way it should be, not by some silly meter telling you how much you have. :D
Kilsin said:Manouk said:Sunmistress said:Wizards I could see a minor mana regen buff, and some other functionality to fill time, it appeared Zynxs was doing a whole lot of thumb twiddling while waiting on aggro (nnot her fault obviously). Which doesn't make for engaging play.
What I saw was Zynks managing her aggro by feel (NOT by the crutch of a meter- Brava!) and was "eyes on the outside" calling out adds or possible roamers in the inbetween time. Go-go first person view!
But yes the mana regen could use a little boost- although "casting yourself dry, like a wizard" still has some sting to me.
Zynxs was mastering the art of aggro by feel and by death! (as I do) The way it should be, not by some silly meter telling you how much you have. :D
Those OHKO's were a bit raw, remind me of early day Tyson for sure.
Lol