Just wanting to know if camps will be enforced, i know they are "Man Made" but if someone has it "Camped" can we expect the GM's or some kind of management to do something about it, I'm only asking becuase i know I'm on Lockjaw right now in EQ and well there a particle guild there that has no respect for other peoples areas they are camping, like none at all. I know the community might have ill favor of them and everything but if they never take any action against them there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. They also made it very clear that their sin't anything known as a camp in EQ and that they are "Man Made" and so therefore they were doing nothing wrong and we just had to suck it up and drive on or leave the server becuase they weren't going to stop doing what they were doing. Not going to mention the guilds name but they are joining Pantheon.
I think that this is something that is kind of hard to enforce. I mean, open world content means just that. If another group/guild chooses to not respect the "Camp Check" unofficial accepted rule, then there really isn'y anything that the GMs can--or should--do about it. If we try to have the GMs enforce such issues, then why have open world content? Just make instanced dungeons, and that is something that I do not necessarily want. I know it can be a PITA, but I don't remember more than a few instances in EQ where it was an insurmountable problem.
That's a good point and honestly i hope we don't run into people like this, because i know most people don't, but for the ones that do i would just wish for them to looked badly at and i dunno maybe the community rise up against them and treat them like they treat others i guess i dunno. I jsut want people to be fair and just while we are experienceing the new world without having to deal with people simply being rude and unjust in theirs actions to make them lose interests in the game simply becuase of a group of people who made it unenjoyable.
I am hoping "camps" are made obsolete. I really hope names have 3, 4, 10 different spawning locations in a given area or zone. So that camping one spot is no guarantee to get one. Make it so that there are several camping spots so that no one can monopolize them all. Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
So I guess if there is only one place to get something its going to be survival of the quickest if there is no way to get in on the action. But I think it is completely doable to eliminate the classic static camp, and it should be eliminated.
Now if you were not talking about name camps but just grinding spots, I don't go for camps at all. If there are multiple mobs spawning they can be shared.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
Sabot said:I am hoping "camps" are made obsolete. I really hope names have 3, 4, 10 different spawning locations in a given area or zone. So that camping one spot is no guarantee to get one. Make it so that there are several camping spots so that no one can monopolize them all. Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
So I guess if there is only one place to get something its going to be survival of the quickest if there is no way to get in on the action. But I think it is completely doable to eliminate the classic static camp, and it should be eliminated.
Now if you were not talking about name camps but just grinding spots, I don't go for camps at all. If there are multiple mobs spawning they can be shared.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
So you mean like a zone like Greig's End in Everquest, I am actually very happy you brought this up and that would definately be a great idea! i was kinda meaning both but if at least the namers weren't guaranteed to spawn somewhere but anywhere that would also cuase people to be more friendly and just find another spot to set up and start killing there.
From the FAQ, this comes closest to what I think you were asking:
10.0 How is Pantheon going to handle kill stealing?
First, if you go around kill stealing and bothering other players your reputation is likely to suffer and you could even be blacklisted such that people refuse to group with you. In terms of the actual mechanic, the player or group that does the most damage will receive the experience and loot (note: this is not yet set in stone and will be evaluated during alpha and beta testing).
Repeated griefing and harassment will become a Customer Service issue. If a player consistently ruins the fun and entertainment of other players he or she will no longer be welcome to play Pantheon.
So it seems if a particular person/group is reported enough for stealing camps that GMs will likely step in after reviewing it.
Sabot said:Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
By creating plenty of content, a large world, not allowing shards to become overpopulated (for example, by quickly launching new shards), possible systems and rules within specific shards, and if things get out of hand to involve Customer Service (GMs). Above all, we want to use positive reinforcement by making sure that there is enough content and an epic enough world to minimize these issues.
We also want to make sure there will be plenty of great items and choices for adventuring all over the world – for example, we want to avoid there being just a single sought-after item for a specific class at a specific level. Similarly powerful and valued items will be available elsewhere in the world.
Mod Edit: Reviewing web format error - Molad
From the FAQ, this comes closest to what I think you were asking:
10.0 How is Pantheon going to handle kill stealing?
First, if you go around kill stealing and bothering other players your reputation is likely to suffer and you could even be blacklisted such that people refuse to group with you. In terms of the actual mechanic, the player or group that does the most damage will receive the experience and loot (note: this is not yet set in stone and will be evaluated during alpha and beta testing).
Repeated griefing and harassment will become a Customer Service issue. If a player consistently ruins the fun and entertainment of other players he or she will no longer be welcome to play Pantheon.
So it seems if a particular person/group is reported enough for stealing camps that GMs will likely step in after reviewing it.
Sabot said:Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
By creating plenty of content, a large world, not allowing shards to become overpopulated (for example, by quickly launching new shards), possible systems and rules within specific shards, and if things get out of hand to involve Customer Service (GMs). Above all, we want to use positive reinforcement by making sure that there is enough content and an epic enough world to minimize these issues.
We also want to make sure there will be plenty of great items and choices for adventuring all over the world – for example, we want to avoid there being just a single sought-after item for a specific class at a specific level. Similarly powerful and valued items will be available elsewhere in the world.
Mod Edit: Reviewing web format error - Molad
Iksar said:From the FAQ, this comes closest to what I think you were asking:
10.0 How is Pantheon going to handle kill stealing?
First, if you go around kill stealing and bothering other players your reputation is likely to suffer and you could even be blacklisted such that people refuse to group with you. In terms of the actual mechanic, the player or group that does the most damage will receive the experience and loot (note: this is not yet set in stone and will be evaluated during alpha and beta testing).
Repeated griefing and harassment will become a Customer Service issue. If a player consistently ruins the fun and entertainment of other players he or she will no longer be welcome to play Pantheon.So it seems if a particular person/group is reported enough for stealing camps that GMs will likely step in after reviewing it.
Sabot said:Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
10.1 Open world MMOs sometimes suffer from too much competition for resources, overcrowding, and other similar issues. For example, what plans are there to mitigate one guild from preventing others from progressing?
By creating plenty of content, a large world, not allowing shards to become overpopulated (for example, by quickly launching new shards), possible systems and rules within specific shards, and if things get out of hand to involve Customer Service (GMs). Above all, we want to use positive reinforcement by making sure that there is enough content and an epic enough world to minimize these issues.
We also want to make sure there will be plenty of great items and choices for adventuring all over the world – for example, we want to avoid there being just a single sought-after item for a specific class at a specific level. Similarly powerful and valued items will be available elsewhere in the world.
Thank You Iksar this is exactly what i was looking for, hopefully the community can make him stop so these actions don't have to be taken but I'm glad there is something in place so they know that it isn't allowed to happen.
Mod Edit: Web eddor formation investigarion - Molad
Riahuf22 said:Just wanting to know if camps will be enforced, i know they are "Man Made" but if someone has it "Camped" can we expect the GM's or some kind of management to do something about it, I'm only asking becuase i know I'm on Lockjaw right now in EQ and well there a particle guild there that has no respect for other peoples areas they are camping, like none at all. I know the community might have ill favor of them and everything but if they never take any action against them there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. They also made it very clear that their sin't anything known as a camp in EQ and that they are "Man Made" and so therefore they were doing nothing wrong and we just had to suck it up and drive on or leave the server becuase they weren't going to stop doing what they were doing. Not going to mention the guilds name but they are joining Pantheon.
Also, to be fair, in today's gaming world, this 100% doesn't work. Too many "entitled" players anymore. It's not like it was back in the day, when, for the most part, people respected others camps. Now you'll just have a couple bad apples think they can do whatever they want, and waltz in and steamroll. That's why you have to do instances anymore, so everyone "gets a turn."
Hexaholic said:Riahuf22 said:Just wanting to know if camps will be enforced, i know they are "Man Made" but if someone has it "Camped" can we expect the GM's or some kind of management to do something about it, I'm only asking becuase i know I'm on Lockjaw right now in EQ and well there a particle guild there that has no respect for other peoples areas they are camping, like none at all. I know the community might have ill favor of them and everything but if they never take any action against them there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. They also made it very clear that their sin't anything known as a camp in EQ and that they are "Man Made" and so therefore they were doing nothing wrong and we just had to suck it up and drive on or leave the server becuase they weren't going to stop doing what they were doing. Not going to mention the guilds name but they are joining Pantheon.
Also, to be fair, in today's gaming world, this 100% doesn't work. Too many "entitled" players anymore. It's not like it was back in the day, when, for the most part, people respected others camps. Now you'll just have a couple bad apples think they can do whatever they want, and waltz in and steamroll. That's why you have to do instances anymore, so everyone "gets a turn."
Nah, you don't need instancing to teach people common courtesy, they just need to realize that they shouldn't be doing it and like iksar posted if they have multiple complaints about a player or grp doing it they will investigate it and see wht they can do to stop it. And like others have said the community will react to it negativly and black list them from joining theirs groups and such so I'm sure we can take care of it one way or another
Closest real world equivalent I can think of is claim jumping:
"Ca. Penal Code 487 (d)
Every person who feloniously steals, takes, and carries away,
or attempts to take, steal, and carry from any mining claim, tunnel,
sluice, undercurrent, riffle box, or sulfurate machine, another's
gold dust, amalgam, or quicksilver is guilty of grand theft and is
punishable by imprisonment in the state prison."
Sabot said:I am hoping "camps" are made obsolete. I really hope names have 3, 4, 10 different spawning locations in a given area or zone. So that camping one spot is no guarantee to get one. Make it so that there are several camping spots so that no one can monopolize them all. Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
So I guess if there is only one place to get something its going to be survival of the quickest if there is no way to get in on the action. But I think it is completely doable to eliminate the classic static camp, and it should be eliminated.
Now if you were not talking about name camps but just grinding spots, I don't go for camps at all. If there are multiple mobs spawning they can be shared.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
If a camp becomes an area instead of a literal goblin hut, cool, but camps are exactly what engender a sense of connection with the world. You learn pathing, you learn rare mobs, you learn loot, you learn the griffin that comes by every 45 minutes and kills your group. If you're constantly on the run, you will not be forming attachments to the world that you would otherwise. GW2 is a perfect example of this. A big beautiful world and all you do is race through it. Nothing has any meaning or persitence. You will look back on a camp and be ANGRY that it took so long, or extatic about the loot you got and friends you made and the time you had. You won't look back on a race from point of interest to point of interest because your brain will give no poops.
I'm sure he didn't mean you couldn't find a spot and sit there and espeically farm there for exp, i think the biggest point he was making he wished that the namer that could spawn there could also spawn somewhere else in the zone too, that way anyone else farming exp around you could essentially get him to "pop" as well and not just where you are.
Riahuf22 said:I'm sure he didn't mean you couldn't find a spot and sit there and espeically farm there for exp, i think the biggest point he was making he wished that the namer that could spawn there could also spawn somewhere else in the zone too, that way anyone else farming exp around you could essentially get him to "pop" as well and not just where you are.
This actually makes it harder over all to get any particular item because you have no way to really sit down and dedicate time to going after it. The better middle ground would be to still have camps where named spawn but also let there be a low % chance that almost any other spawn location can spawn named mobs in addition to the actual camp. That said I prefer the camp method.
But it doesn't really make it harder becuase he the namers rotate and your "camping" an area you can get multiple namers, as in let's say your in LGuk and your camping certain spawn points where you have a chance to get Magus, Undead Lord, or the Hand, so therefore for camping in a certain area you have the chance of getting the SMR/SSoY/and other items all in one spot instead of camping an area and maybe only camping a particular namer for a particlur loot granted if you have that spot it works out great but lets say you don't and the people there are there literally all day and just farming that mob and play 20 hours a day so you never get a chance to see it except for when you see it for sell becuase they found out it a hot item and can instantly sell it at high prices knowing they are the only one of the few suppliers of said item. So the random namer spawners also protect this from happening and you dont have to worry about any of this and can sit in an area no one else is at and know you have as much of a chance to get the namer to spawn just like anyone else in the immediate area.
Riahuf22 said:But it doesn't really make it harder becuase he the namers rotate and your "camping" an area you can get multiple namers, as in let's say your in LGuk and your camping certain spawn points where you have a chance to get Magus, Undead Lord, or the Hand, so therefore for camping in a certain area you have the chance of getting the SMR/SSoY/and other items all in one spot instead of camping an area and maybe only camping a particular namer for a particlur loot granted if you have that spot it works out great but lets say you don't and the people there are there literally all day and just farming that mob and play 20 hours a day so you never get a chance to see it except for when you see it for sell becuase they found out it a hot item and can instantly sell it at high prices knowing they are the only one of the few suppliers of said item. So the random namer spawners also protect this from happening and you dont have to worry about any of this and can sit in an area no one else is at and know you have as much of a chance to get the namer to spawn just like anyone else in the immediate area.
This entirely depends on spawn rates, if it is roughly 1-2 hours between spawns you might be there all week and never see the named you need vs if it was a steady camp you would would have seen many, guaranteed. Another issue is you can't have all named spawn randomly like this or it completely cheapens dungeon design, both in rising difficulty as you delve deeper and in themed rooms meant to house certain named. The boss of a dungeon would certainly not be randomly anywhere. People would find the path of least resistance and camp the easiest areas to farm named mobs at a much lower difficultly than splitting a room that may be designed to be extra difficult to break and house higher level mobs. It also makes it much easier for players to abuse potential boss mechanics using unintended corners or walls etc.
Iksar said:Riahuf22 said:But it doesn't really make it harder becuase he the namers rotate and your "camping" an area you can get multiple namers, as in let's say your in LGuk and your camping certain spawn points where you have a chance to get Magus, Undead Lord, or the Hand, so therefore for camping in a certain area you have the chance of getting the SMR/SSoY/and other items all in one spot instead of camping an area and maybe only camping a particular namer for a particlur loot granted if you have that spot it works out great but lets say you don't and the people there are there literally all day and just farming that mob and play 20 hours a day so you never get a chance to see it except for when you see it for sell becuase they found out it a hot item and can instantly sell it at high prices knowing they are the only one of the few suppliers of said item. So the random namer spawners also protect this from happening and you dont have to worry about any of this and can sit in an area no one else is at and know you have as much of a chance to get the namer to spawn just like anyone else in the immediate area.
This entirely depends on spawn rates, if it is roughly 1-2 hours between spawns you might be there all week and never see the named you need vs if it was a steady camp you would would have seen many, guaranteed. Another issue is you can't have all named spawn randomly like this or it completely cheapens dungeon design, both in rising difficulty as you delve deeper and in themed rooms meant to house certain named. The boss of a dungeon would certainly not be randomly anywhere. People would find the path of least resistance and camp the easiest areas to farm named mobs at a much lower difficultly than splitting a room that may be designed to be extra difficult to break and house higher level mobs. It also makes it much easier for players to abuse potential boss mechanics using unintended corners or walls etc.
Yes i undersand what your saying and i understand there are a few exceptions where random spawning don't work and obviously they should be static spawning, as in end dungeon bosses and such but at the same time i say random spawning as more pros than cons, unlike static spawning.
10.0 How is Pantheon going to handle kill stealing?
I do believe this is a problem in many mmorpg games. I think that the system of whoever does the most damage gets the kill is flawed. I think it needs a batter system. I think that the first person/group that engages the mob should have the kill. But he/they need to do a substantial amount of damage also. Like 30-40 %. If you are soloing a mob and a group comes along and they wallop the mob for 50% + they get the kill. We all know the dps classes can do a bang up job when they get moving and some classes that do not have a strong dps have to rely on dot's and slow hitting spells to get the same amount of damage.
Many times I have been root.doting a mob and some one comes along and "helps" by killing the mob for you. If they click on you they will mostly see that you are full health or almost full health and really do not need the help.
I have done this many times with others. After i click and see they re low I usually throw a heal, not a damage spell, to help out. If they are running i usually root or snare the mob for them to escape..I know trying to get the GM's to marshal ks is obsurd. They would be too busy to get other important things done.
Also making sure that they get a good piece of damage done is essential. It will keep people from just running around and hitting everything once and letting the other players kill it for them. This seems to be popular with powerlevelers. You will always have the ks'ers and the occasonal accidental ks. But that can be handled easily with a little talking to each other.
Riahuf22 said:Sabot said:I am hoping "camps" are made obsolete. I really hope names have 3, 4, 10 different spawning locations in a given area or zone. So that camping one spot is no guarantee to get one. Make it so that there are several camping spots so that no one can monopolize them all. Keep things mobile. Personaly I hate camps, I think they are stupid. I have respected them in the past because that is how the game was set up, but if I were to do it now I dunno. I am not interested in missing out on something I need or want because every day that I log in for 2 weeks straight there is a group "camping" the one place I can get said thing.
So I guess if there is only one place to get something its going to be survival of the quickest if there is no way to get in on the action. But I think it is completely doable to eliminate the classic static camp, and it should be eliminated.
Now if you were not talking about name camps but just grinding spots, I don't go for camps at all. If there are multiple mobs spawning they can be shared.
But at the end of the day there is no way to enforce a camp. They won't send a GM out everytime one group snags a pull from another group. If the game is anything like EQ was the comunity will be really vocal about this kind of thing and word will spread quickly.
So you mean like a zone like Greig's End in Everquest, I am actually very happy you brought this up and that would definately be a great idea! i was kinda meaning both but if at least the namers weren't guaranteed to spawn somewhere but anywhere that would also cuase people to be more friendly and just find another spot to set up and start killing there.
You still had camps in GE, Gate, WCY, ECY, North Cubby, South Cubby, DS entrance, SD Entrance.
As far as camps it will come down to the game mechanics and how combat is done. If the encounter is locked to you (dont think it will be just saying if) then we wont have to worry, the group that tags first gets it, if it is a DPS race then VR can't do to much other then make sure the other group is not training you or generally disrupting your or the servers gameplay. Hopefully people will respect each other enough and find some where else to group/XP.
Also most group dungeon content sounds like it is going to be more liek VG where you slowly crawl through a dungeon, with quick enough respawns that a group coimming in 10-15 minutes behind you will also ahe mobs to kill. I for one expet respawns in general to be quicker then EQ save for many rare nameds and bosses.
Riahuf22 said:Yes i undersand what your saying and i understand there are a few exceptions where random spawning don't work and obviously they should be static spawning, as in end dungeon bosses and such but at the same time i say random spawning as more pros than cons, unlike static spawning.
Please share with me these pros/cons. I really can't think of enough pros to outweigh the cons for random spawns.
It's funny and ironic that the same people demanding that VR enforce group camps are the same people that fight against certain raid guilds camping raid mobs.
There are two sides to every camp:
1) Those that say their camp should be honored because they were there first, they have been in that spot for five hours and everyone else should go away or wait until they are done.
2) Those that say the campers are intentionally denying other players access to content and they are entitled to experience that content.
You cannot make both sides happy.