Irrelevent to me in terms of what I will play since it will change so much during the multiple phases of testing between now and when I pick my classes.
Good news, however, since it will do two different and highly useful things. Well, three. It will demonstrate progress in moving to a final game ready to be rolled out. It will roil the forums and give us a lot of things to talk about - and lively forums are a good thing. It will allow comments and feedback even before testing or from those who aren't testing. I will certainly look very carefully to see which classes, if any, have my favorite abilities. Feign death and evac in their various forms. And feel free to comment if I think those classes shouldn't have them or other classes should, with balance in mind. Many of us will be doing the same for whatever abilities catch their eyes.
Shai said:And we're sure this is a good idea? What about all those mysterious spells and abilities waiting to be discovered in the depths of a dungeon somewhere?
To be fair, he didn't say ALL spells and abilities. I'd kinda assume just the "Essential" ones, as they're listed in the Living Codex.
But even still, what good is a spell if you have literally no idea where to find it? lol. There's something to be said about it being a bit more motivating to know what the prize is and know that it's worth it, but not knowing at all how to get it.
Bazgrim said:To be fair, he didn't say ALL spells and abilities.
He said:
shasta said:[\b]...will there be a complete list of spells/abilities...
I'm not sure what the difference is between "complete" and "all" in this context.
Bazgrim said:...what good is a spell if you have literally no idea where to find it?
By that logic, lets have VR give us a complete database of NPCs with stats and loot tables. There's a lot to be said for the unknown and mysterios as motivating forces.
Taledar said: I'm excited and worried too. A complete list before the game Ian out is cool ever us to look through and give us something to do while we wait for the game, but once the game is out it does take a little away from the discovery. :X Ps I hope spells still cost reagents!
I agree - I think it should be a complete mystery. Maybe just release a few of the basic spells for each class so we can get a general idea of where a class could possibly go, but I don't think everything should be released.
Shai said:By that logic, lets have VR give us a complete database of NPCs with stats and loot tables. There's a lot to be said for the unknown and mysterios as motivating forces.
Eh. I don't think it's so bad to release them, it may not even be all of them as Joppa said "This is something I'm currently working on and hope to start rolling out publicly sometime soon :)" So it sounds more like something they would slowly be rolling out over time, much like class/race information and specifics. It's one thing to know a spell exists and quite another to know where it drops/how you obtain it. They probably wont even tell us what the spells do specifically, they might just list "Fireball - A fire based direct damage spell" instead of something like "Fireball - A fire based direct damage dealing X to X damage. 5 second Cooldown. Damage increased by X% base on intellect and level. (INT+Level*0.7)" And It likely won't include the alterations you can make to each spell via the living codex.
Even if they do release a comprehensive spell/ability list between now and release, you are not obligated to look. These things will no doubt be posted all over the place come sometime in beta.
Iksar said:Shai said:By that logic, lets have VR give us a complete database of NPCs with stats and loot tables. There's a lot to be said for the unknown and mysterios as motivating forces.
Eh. I don't think it's so bad to release them, it may not even be all of them as Joppa said "This is something I'm currently working on and hope to start rolling out publicly sometime soon :)" So it sounds more like something they would slowly be rolling out over time, much like class/race information and specifics. It's one thing to know a spell exists and quite another to know where it drops/how you obtain it. They probably wont even tell us what the spells do specifically, they might just list "Fireball - A fire based direct damage spell" instead of something like "Fireball - A fire based direct damage dealing X to X damage. 5 second Cooldown. Damage increased by X% base on intellect and level. (INT+Level*0.7)" And It likely won't include the alterations you can make to each spell via the living codex.
Even if they do release a comprehensive spell/ability list between now and release, you are not obligated to look. These things will no doubt be posted all over the place come sometime in beta.
Agree with everything. This is more of what I was trying to say.
I'd rather we just have general class descriptions, but realistically, we have to test all these spells and abilities in beta, so it's all coming out prior to launch anyway. Might as well roll it out and hype it up while we wait around for the beta process to even begin. Wish it was possible to keep everything secret until after launch, would be pretty neat.
Mathir said:I'd rather we just have general class descriptions, but realistically, we have to test all these spells and abilities in beta, so it's all coming out prior to launch anyway. Might as well roll it out and hype it up while we wait around for the beta process to even begin. Wish it was possible to keep everything secret until after launch, would be pretty neat.
Very true. Although I'd be willing to bet that the general class descriptions will come with the spell lists. Wouldn't do anyone much good to know the spells without knowing the intended role of the class.
And I'm also sure there'll still be plenty of secrets at launch. Brad said there's still some stuff that he doesn't even know about and he's the freaking Chief Creative Officer lol. So I wouldn't worry about a lack of secrets :)
This is good news. I welcome a complete list of spells and abilities before release. One thing I always looked forward to in most mmorpg's was what spells and abiloities I would recieve and when. The only down part of knowing before release is when- not if- the nerf your favorite ability or spell. But that is part of the balancing game and we will have to get along with it.
I also know that some abilities and spells will be nerfed after release. This is where it really hurts. In eq 1 I was elated to get tracking. I was in heaven. but then some idiote said it was not sopposed to compare with the Ranger tracking and they nerfed it. I was so disheartened to hit tracking and not see the orc in the distance that was visible to me but not on tracking. They eventually fixed it but it was a while away.
and Joppa, good work. but stop posting and work faster.(JK)
Iksar said:Even if they do release a comprehensive spell/ability list between now and release, you are not obligated to look. These things will no doubt be posted all over the place come sometime in beta.
I definitely understand that some people want to be surprised and discover everything on their own in game, but there are a ton of us that are starving for information. Like Iksar said, at some point, you're going to need to make a pretty strong effort to avoid new information if you don't want to know it before you can find it out for yourself in Terminus.
Like others have said, we don't need complete descriptions with all the numbers (though I definitely wouldn't mind that) and we don't need to know where each spell or ability is learned. Hell, I don't even need the names of these spells or abilities. They can give them generic placeholder names if they must. Still, I wish people would stop asking the developers -not- to give us information about this game. I just don't get it.
A complete list of spells and abilities is an awesome addition to the game. I know that there will be posts after launch of spell lists and ability lists featuring all pertinent info. If there were not and nobody knows what to ecpect to find it would be a droolfest.
Picture yourself as a mage, level 10 , and you are battling these orcs with your firebolt. Your best spell and all of a sudden you see this level 9 mage just wiping the floor with these same orcs with a moonglow spell. You say where did you find that spell and he says " none of your business go find it yourself ". What would you do? You would search for the spell. But where? Wouldn t it be nice to know what you are looking for? Of coarse you would want to know right away what and where to get it. Part of the fun is leveling so you can get that next awesome spell or ability. It would take a lot of the joy out of the game if you had nothing to look forward to. Also as a young caster it is hard enough saving cash for your spells, but to buy a spell that you may never use because you didn't know what it does is simply a waste of plats.
EQ1 was awesome in that way. You always could find a list and it was nice to know where to go to get the spells. Traveling to surefall and Firiona Vie and other far places to purchase your new spells was a great release from just killing.
The only thing I disliked was the spelldrop system where you never knew what spell would drop and who would drop it. Rare spells would be so hard to get and would cost a fortune to buy from other players.But thats a part of the game I can deal with.
Cant wait Joppa!
As others have said, I DO want to know this stuff!!!! I doubt theyd be giving us info on how to aquire these abilities. And I mostly assume they will be standard abilities and not elite/prime abilities etc. Bard wont be at launch or looks highly unlikely. And Im currently in classless limbo as I have no strong attraction to any launch class. But a lot of that is based on not knowing the roles of the classes or a basic description of the types of abilities and spells they have. Or for that matter how they play. Because even if I know what they are supposed to do, I can like that but not the playstyle. Hopefully this info will help me make a more educated choice.
Amsai said:Cant wait Joppa!
As others have said, I DO want to know this stuff!!!! I doubt theyd be giving us info on how to aquire these abilities. And I mostly assume they will be standard abilities and not elite/prime abilities etc. Bard wont be at launch or looks highly unlikely. And Im currently in classless limbo as I have no strong attraction to any launch class. But a lot of that is based on not knowing the roles of the classes or a basic description of the types of abilities and spells they have. Or for that matter how they play. Because even if I know what they are supposed to do, I can like that but not the playstyle. Hopefully this info will help me make a more educated choice.
I'd argue it's one of the most important things to have pre-release for making an informed class decision. Personally I need to know the full scope of what to expect my class to be able to do.
Iksar said:Amsai said:Cant wait Joppa!
As others have said, I DO want to know this stuff!!!! I doubt theyd be giving us info on how to aquire these abilities. And I mostly assume they will be standard abilities and not elite/prime abilities etc. Bard wont be at launch or looks highly unlikely. And Im currently in classless limbo as I have no strong attraction to any launch class. But a lot of that is based on not knowing the roles of the classes or a basic description of the types of abilities and spells they have. Or for that matter how they play. Because even if I know what they are supposed to do, I can like that but not the playstyle. Hopefully this info will help me make a more educated choice.
I'd argue it's one of the most important things to have pre-release for making an informed class decision. Personally I need to know the full scope of what to expect my class to be able to do.
Very true. Nothing worse than creating a character with expectations about they'll do, only to find out dozens or hundreds of play hours later that you're wrong and you don't find it fun.
I don't think a "complete" list is a good idea, but I do think a basic overview type of thing would be good. Like I don't need to know all the "hidden" spells/abilities for my class, but the basic ones you get for levels 1-20, say, and some selection of the "class flavor" abilities if they aren't gained until after (like if a Druid doesn't get porting spells until levels 30-50, you could show maybe the first or second one just to give people an idea "they exist", or if a Cleric doesn't get res spells until high levels, just show the first one, and so on.)
It's just nice as it kind of gives an idea of what class I might want to play out of a couple similar ones. Like I would like to play a healer, so seeing the basic spells of Cleric vs Druid vs Shaman would give me an idea of which I would be more likely to want to try out first.