I read in the FAQ that there's a Perspective skill which determines your ability to find details, most likely relating to lore, when adventuring the world away from the roads. Is this really necessary? Why can't our perspective be determined be by, you know, our actual real life perspective? When travelling around the world of Norrath in Everquest I didn't need a special skill to study the world and learn about it's lore. And not having this skill didn't make it less mysterious. In fact, it was still very mysterious.
So my question is is the Perspective skill really necessary? I'd like to find things out with my own eyes and not be barred from certain lore just because some unusual skill isn't high enough.
I think you may be referring to the *perception* skill. In one of the videos I watched you could see it in action. Apparently if you have high enough perception, the NPCs/environment will engage you in a way that they wouldn't otherwise, for instance, you will get a perception message indicating that an NPC appears to be distressed. If you decide to follow up on that, you'll have a dialogue with the NPC and be informed about some person or location. It's a substitute for the whole quest hub, quest givers with exclamation marks floating above their heads model (incidentally, is this where the whole Golden Exclamation Mark thing comes from?).
Finding out stuff with your own eyes could certainly work, and we still don't have a whole lot of information about the perception system, but I can see why the developers would go this way. On the one hand, purely visual/sound cues might be easily missed, making it hard for players interested in quests to find them. As it is, you get a clear indication when your character "perceives" something. On the other hand, I think it fits better into the role-playing scene. You are not your character, and your character isn't you. When you play the game, you kind of inhabit a different persona who may or may not share the same skills as meatspace you. So just like other character skills, some players will choose to develop their perception, others will not.
This doesn't mean that paying attention to the world will be irrelevant. There are actually two skills in the perception system. The one I mentioned above which actively prompts you about something near you is "insight" and is a passive skill. But you also have an active "investigate" skill, which I *assume* you would use infrequently, when you come across something you feel might hold some sort of secret.
Different games do things differently. For my part, I actually like what little I've read about the perception system and can't wait to try it out.
[EDIT] Found the video where they mention the perception system here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/113283401?t=4m05s
daemonios said:I think you may be referring to the *perception* skill. In one of the videos I watched you could see it in action. Apparently if you have high enough perception, the NPCs/environment will engage you in a way that they wouldn't otherwise, for instance, you will get a perception message indicating that an NPC appears to be distressed. If you decide to follow up on that, you'll have a dialogue with the NPC and be informed about some person or location. It's a substitute for the whole quest hub, quest givers with exclamation marks floating above their heads model (incidentally, is this where the whole Golden Exclamation Mark thing comes from?).
Finding out stuff with your own eyes could certainly work, and we still don't have a whole lot of information about the perception system, but I can see why the developers would go this way. On the one hand, purely visual/sound cues might be easily missed, making it hard for players interested in quests to find them. As it is, you get a clear indication when your character "perceives" something. On the other hand, I think it fits better into the role-playing scene. You are not your character, and your character isn't you. When you play the game, you kind of inhabit a different persona who may or may not share the same skills as meatspace you. So just like other character skills, some players will choose to develop their perception, others will not.
This doesn't mean that paying attention to the world will be irrelevant. There are actually two skills in the perception system. The one I mentioned above which actively prompts you about something near you is "insight" and is a passive skill. But you also have an active "investigate" skill, which I *assume* you would use infrequently, when you come across something you feel might hold some sort of secret.
Different games do things differently. For my part, I actually like what little I've read about the perception system and can't wait to try it out.
[EDIT] Found the video where they mention the perception system here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/113283401?t=4m05s
So would I still be able to do the same quests, it's just that those with a high Perception skill can more easily find the quest givers?
Draulius said:So would I still be able to do the same quests, it's just that those with a high Perception skill can more easily find the quest givers?
If you're in a group and someone has enough perception to trigger the system, I think the whole group can do the quest together. Otherwise, *my take* is that you won't be able to do that particular quest. Maybe there will be some quests you can start without the need to invest in perception, but I'm not sure.
The important thing is that apparently VR want to move away from the traditional "quest giver says fetch me a widget", you get a minimap marker with the quest giver position and the place where you're supposed to get your widget from, and a quest log with check marks for the several quest steps. As I said, I don't know about non-perception quests, but for the perception ones you get a journal of sorts where you can recall that someone, sometime mentioned some location or item of interest.
Bottom line is that it *could* be that if your preferred progression method is by doing quests, then you'll have to use the perception system, but don't take my word for it.
Draulius said:So my question is is the Perspective skill really necessary? I'd like to find things out with my own eyes and not be barred from certain lore just because some unusual skill isn't high enough.
Necessary might be the wing word. Worthwhile? Yes.
There are things that can't be expressed at our level of technology. AND there are skills some have in real life that others don't, and this is the concept attempted to be captured here.
One guy may think this girl has the hots for him and move in. The nerd in the same situation may blunder along blindly and never have a clue. His perception of her interest is undeveloped.
Or, my sense of smell is highly developed. I CAN reliably smell when milk is starting to spoil, even though scientists say it's not possible for humans. They tested me, so I'm not just saying that. My hearing is remarkable, as well. At 45, I can still hear the mosquito alarm easier than most teens. My uncorrected vision is dreadful and darkness sucks badly for me even with correction.
Then there are people who have retained in tracking. To make tracking a skill based solely upon what real life tracking is based on is literally impossible.
Anyway, my point is that it's no more necessary than any other game mechanic, but if they do it well, it can add tremendous depth to the game that we simply haven't the technology yet to create in other ways.
Draulius said:I read in the FAQ that there's a Perspective skill which determines your ability to find details, most likely relating to lore, when adventuring the world away from the roads. Is this really necessary? Why can't our perspective be determined be by, you know, our actual real life perspective? When travelling around the world of Norrath in Everquest I didn't need a special skill to study the world and learn about it's lore. And not having this skill didn't make it less mysterious. In fact, it was still very mysterious.
So my question is is the Perspective skill really necessary? I'd like to find things out with my own eyes and not be barred from certain lore just because some unusual skill isn't high enough.
The perception skill is just an early precursor to what Google and the Pantheon Wiki or Unofficial Pantheon Wiki will become. It just tells you something is there so you can have a cool journey before everyone else starts talking about it. That is my understanding of it at least. Personally, I wouldn't mind not being able to do certain quests until perception has reached a certain point but that is me. As mentioned above, it's like tracking, but with individuals and their body language and the 5 senses instead.
Gah, sorry delete this. Quoted instead of edit. I can't report my own post, please someone report this as a double post. Thank you.
The ability to find some things, get some quests and open certain conversation paths because of a character skill is very much in keeping with the old school nature of Pantheon. Back in the day before everything was simplified and dumbed down this was a lot more common in games. I like it.
dorotea said:The ability to find some things, get some quests and open certain conversation paths because of a character skill is very much in keeping with the old school nature of Pantheon. Back in the day before everything was simplified and dumbed down this was a lot more common in games. I like it.
Tell me about it! Circa 1990 I kept physical notebooks full of scribbles to keep track of people, places, items and quests in Ultima V. No quest log, no journal, no in-game map other than a Peer spell or gems that would show a blocky image of your surroundings, and conversation was typed, not selected from a list of options. You needed to remember where to go, who to talk to, and what to ask them. Fun times!
The answer to the question is that the skill allows there to be a progression involved. By having perception skill, you have to utilize it to be able to unlock certain things. Otherwise, players would just go to a wiki, interact with necessary npcs or objects for the best items, and skip all the rest.
Dullahan said:The answer to the question is that the skill allows there to be a progression involved. By having perception skill, you have to utilize it to be able to unlock certain things. Otherwise, players would just go to a wiki, interact with necessary npcs or objects for the best items, and skip all the rest.
I think the Devs also said that different races will perceive things differently, so while, let's say a human may miss something a Dwarf might see and if both a human or Dwarf might miss it, further an Elf in the mix may notice something the other 2 missed. I think it's VR's way of making Pantheon more Community and Team Player oriented.
Also players will Wiki things anyway. A perception skill won't change that. Players will just learn through Wiki which races notice what and go about getting what they want that way. Even so, where before players may have bypassed things to get what they want, at least with perception they'll need companions on the way to fame, riches and glory lol i.e. making in game friends will be needed. Welcome to the Community of Patheon.
From the Twitch streams, it seems like the perception system is still extremely early in development.
I guess what I don’t understand about it, is why would you not want to use it? Why does it have to be a separate thing where you get a tomb to carry with you, rather than just something everyone can do? If it doesn't require extra work I don't see a reason to have it seperate becuase there is no reason for everyone to not do it.
I think the concept is good but I’m not thrilled about the current implementation.
I agree with bigdogchris here, what I have seen of the current implementation looks to be they simply replaced the visual question mark above the head with an even more annoying pop up window.
Question marks you could just ignore and run past. The system I seen in the Coho stream popped up in your face and required you to interact just as you ran by.
I have faith though... this was an early rendition and I would think just a proof of concept. Placeholder if you will. The idea seems solid, the implementation I'm sure will see more refinement.
Zorkon said:I agree with bigdogchris here, what I have seen of the current implementation looks to be they simply replaced the visual question mark above the head with an even more annoying pop up window.
Question marks you could just ignore and run past. The system I seen in the Coho stream popped up in your face and required you to interact just as you ran by.
I have faith though... this was an early rendition and I would think just a proof of concept. Placeholder if you will. The idea seems solid, the implementation I'm sure will see more refinement.
The thing is, question marks appear for everyone and are obvious from a distance (and are usually marked on the minimap as well). I guess the idea in Pantheon, as stated by the devs, is that the game won't be holding your hand all the way. You'll only get a perception prompt *if* you decide to be a player who invests in perception. You can then choose to follow up on it or not.
There could be other ways to go about it, such as eery glows around people, places or objects. To be honest, I prefer a prompt. Shiny interactables make the player seem like an aura-sensing psychic. I'm keen to hear other suggestions about how VR could implement this, but I'm not particularly bummed by it as shown in that stream.
It also remains to be seen how it fits in the overall game. I think the devs mentioned epic quests would be available for any player, so perception or lack thereof wouldn't stop you from questing altogether. Also, about different races' abilities to see the world differently, it seems not every player will experience the game exactly the same way, which I have to admit sounds really cool to me, though it may be tricky to implement if players start to feel they're missing out on too much due to race choices.
