I remember a mod in Skyrim that made things so dark your computer brightness didnt matter. You simply couldnt see a certain distance away. This is probably the only way you could do it without people cheating and jacking up their brightness at night, to turn it down at day.
I'd like to see actual sight distances based on the abilities of your character's eyes. Torch lights up to 15 feet, dim light up to 30 feet, can't see after that. People with night vision can see as if in dim light without a torch up to 30 feet. Those sorts of things.
Eye reflections and sounds, as have been mentioned, would make this even cooler.
I agree that extreme night time dangers should be unique. Even in a monster infested world every zone isn't going to murder you like Kithicor. Still, every zone could have it's spawns changed about in some way. Things that are known to like night are more prelavent, things that like day time go to sleep (it would be cool if you could even find them sleeping, but there's a limit to how many caves, shacks, holes, and hollows you can put in an area haha).
During that unique danger it should be scary, but I think in a more " my character is gonna die" kind of way than a "silent hill" kind of way.
I do agree that "degree of difficulty" should not change in every zone. Like I said, take Freeport for example. Orc pawns, snakes, and rats in the day. The rats can stay all night, but the others "go to bed". Then skeletons and bats (which are the same level) come out at dusk and 'go to bed' at dawn.
Some zones don't need to change at all (I think it's burdensome to make every zone have a day/night cycle, and I'd prefer they focus on other things over making this world-wide). A few zones could become notorious for their noctornal or diurnal (daytime only) creatures. This will still give nighttime and daytime meaning without being burdensome to the devs.
Amris said:I do agree that "degree of difficulty" should not change in every zone. Like I said, take Freeport for example. Orc pawns, snakes, and rats in the day. The rats can stay all night, but the others "go to bed". Then skeletons and bats (which are the same level) come out at dusk and 'go to bed' at dawn.
Some zones don't need to change at all (I think it's burdensome to make every zone have a day/night cycle, and I'd prefer they focus on other things over making this world-wide). A few zones could become notorious for their noctornal or diurnal (daytime only) creatures. This will still give nighttime and daytime meaning without being burdensome to the devs.
I actually think zones should always change haha. They have a weather system in place so they could make it get colder at night. And they will have a smart AI system so programming things to have sleep cycles (despawn and respawn cycles), or even realistic sleep cycles where they go to bed, is all in the package. Even inside a dungeon some things will need to sleep.
That said, some things might not care about the time of day, such as the sleeper, who sleeps all the time until awoken.
BeaverBiscuit said:I actually think zones should always change haha. They have a weather system in place so they could make it get colder at night. And they will have a smart AI system so programming things to have sleep cycles (despawn and respawn cycles), or even realistic sleep cycles where they go to bed, is all in the package. Even inside a dungeon some things will need to sleep.
That said, some things might not care about the time of day, such as the sleeper, who sleeps all the time until awoken.
It's one thing to change the weather, which is zone-wide. But to make things go to bed, you have to program each mob type. If you actually want them to go somewhere physically to sleep, you have to program every spawn with a path and location. Frankly, I think that's onerous. There are things I value far more and would prefer all the time spent on pathing for sleepytime be spent on. I have no objection to zone-wide changes that don't need to be programmed on a per-mob basis. I don't like having to program every spawn point in the game for a nighttime changeover. That'll add nother year or so to development. :p
Amris said:BeaverBiscuit said:I actually think zones should always change haha. They have a weather system in place so they could make it get colder at night. And they will have a smart AI system so programming things to have sleep cycles (despawn and respawn cycles), or even realistic sleep cycles where they go to bed, is all in the package. Even inside a dungeon some things will need to sleep.
That said, some things might not care about the time of day, such as the sleeper, who sleeps all the time until awoken.
It's one thing to change the weather, which is zone-wide. But to make things go to bed, you have to program each mob type. If you actually want them to go somewhere physically to sleep, you have to program every spawn with a path and location. Frankly, I think that's onerous. There are things I value far more and would prefer all the time spent on pathing for sleepytime be spent on. I have no objection to zone-wide changes that don't need to be programmed on a per-mob basis. I don't like having to program every spawn point in the game for a nighttime changeover. That'll add nother year or so to development. :p
Theres another topic on this, basically the idea is VR wants to throw in actual AI, not the things they hardcore program everything into, but stuff that is given commands and then follows them, with actual artificial intelligence. That's what I got from it anyways. Onerous or no, they want that.
BeaverBiscuit said:Theres another topic on this, basically the idea is VR wants to throw in actual AI, not the things they hardcore program everything into, but stuff that is given commands and then follows them, with actual artificial intelligence. That's what I got from it anyways. Onerous or no, they want that.
AI still has to be programmed. The more advanced the AI and the more tasks it must perform, the greater the programming. Do you prefer programming time spent on advanced combat AI, or on advanced "looking for a place to crash" AI? Assume that there's only so much time, so it must be used in the most fruitful manner.
Amris said:I do agree that "degree of difficulty" should not change in every zone. Like I said, take Freeport for example. Orc pawns, snakes, and rats in the day. The rats can stay all night, but the others "go to bed". Then skeletons and bats (which are the same level) come out at dusk and 'go to bed' at dawn.
Some zones don't need to change at all (I think it's burdensome to make every zone have a day/night cycle, and I'd prefer they focus on other things over making this world-wide). A few zones could become notorious for their noctornal or diurnal (daytime only) creatures. This will still give nighttime and daytime meaning without being burdensome to the devs.
This is exactly what I would love to see in the game also regarding night/day behavior :)
Nighttime offers so much potential.
unique nocturnal mosters such as roaming packs of KoS wolves and swarms of bats.
I would be great to have random ambient sounds for various nighttime encounters to remind the players that at any time something might job out at you. This would work especially good if the sound was played on enemy agro as well. So, a wolf howls before charging in, or bats squeek before swooping down.
On the flip side maybe have non-nocturnal animals return to their nests making them easy to find but in large groups giving us risk takers out there a way to find lots of monsters really quickly. Nothing is scarier then stumbling into a den of lions (or some other fearsome creature) then lighting up your torch.
Kargen said:Nighttime offers so much potential.
unique nocturnal mosters such as roaming packs of KoS wolves and swarms of bats.
I would be great to have random ambient sounds for various nighttime encounters to remind the players that at any time something might job out at you. This would work especially good if the sound was played on enemy agro as well. So, a wolf howls before charging in, or bats squeek before swooping down.
On the flip side maybe have non-nocturnal animals return to their nests making them easy to find but in large groups giving us risk takers out there a way to find lots of monsters really quickly. Nothing is scarier then stumbling into a den of lions (or some other fearsome creature) then lighting up your torch.
That's actually a pretty good point. Although I'd suggest that the sound actually before before aggro. In Skyrim, I liked how, if you were paying attention, you could hear a wolf howl or a bear growl to kind of alert you that they were in the area before they attacked you. That gave you a chance to try to spot them and then either change directions or sneak attack them. But it was a pretty narrow window. You'd pretty much have to stop dead in your tracks if you heard an animal. If you're running haphazardly and not paying attention to the sights and sounds, you'll more than likely get ambushed. I'd love to have some auditory hints like this in Pantheon.
oneADseven said:Agreed! I really liked how FFXI did their nighttime stuff ... I remember Banshees coming out at night and wiping groups because they were 10-20 levels higher than anything else in the area. I would definitely like to see some gameplay elements that are exclusive to nighttime, just like I would for random weather events like storms/blizzards/heat waves, etc. Special baddies, environmental effects ... all that and more, yes please.
Yeaaahhhh - Banshees FTW. More banshees!
Pyye said:I wanted to start a post about nighttime in particular... For rules of this post, please stick to nighttime only, and what you would like to see that makes it scary or dangerous.
For some of us, we remember EQ in its early stages and how dark nighttime was without a light source. Light stones were a necessity! How about Kithikor Forrest at night!!?
I would like to see special creatures that only spawn at night. Werewolves (maybe only when full moon is out), vampire type creatures, wraiths or ghost-like.. It would be really cool to make nighttime special and bring in any other elements that make it scarier.
I would also like to see it very dark... to the point where you have to find a light source of some kind or it would be really difficult to find your way around. Maybe torches only burn for so long, you have to plan your resources correctly. Nothing like a good sense of fear or helplessness if you forget to plan properly.
What else do you all think? Agree or disagree?
Remember how at night in the Overthere the Dragoons would go out on patrol... and they were so tough!!!... and everyone in OOC would start yelling "the GOONS ARE OUT!!" To warn each other... (really gave a sense of community that everyone was letting other players that they didn't even know that the Dragoons were out on patrol and to be careful)... then how nice it was when a really high level player would zone in and kill the GOONS so everyone else would be safe......
Things like that at night... I love things like that.... :D
I think the biggest thing people are hitting on is the chance for a zone to be alive and changing instead of the same static mobs all the time. We are just using nighttime because it can be scary and offer some immersive game play. But I think the takeaway could also be applied to zones in general.
Tough task I know Devs, but it certainly makes for some interesting gaming.
Awesome topic :). I love the ideas.
I have great memories of EQ darkness. Real darkness, combatted with a lightstone once I could slay a willowisp and not be stuck anymore when night fell. It was terrifying, it was real, it was a tangible threat. I'd get stuck in tunnels at night, not knowing which way I should go (and the inevitable 'Loading... please wait' back where I came from.. Grrrr).
I wouldn't mind that kind of darkness again. Something trivial as a lightsource was worth a celebration. At the same time I'd understand if they made it slightly less 'pitch black stumbling around right into a bear' kind of darkness. I do hope they incorperate some of the ideas mentioned here, like some critters disappearing into their holes and others coming out specifically at night. I'd love me some cackling skellies, scary werewolves and other frightening pests to make me jump.
It would be amazing if the night meant a different game from the day. EQ had that feel and it was great. I have no doubt it could be done even more brilliantly these days :).
Amris said:I do agree that "degree of difficulty" should not change in every zone. Like I said, take Freeport for example. Orc pawns, snakes, and rats in the day. The rats can stay all night, but the others "go to bed". Then skeletons and bats (which are the same level) come out at dusk and 'go to bed' at dawn.
Some zones don't need to change at all (I think it's burdensome to make every zone have a day/night cycle, and I'd prefer they focus on other things over making this world-wide). A few zones could become notorious for their noctornal or diurnal (daytime only) creatures. This will still give nighttime and daytime meaning without being burdensome to the devs.
Yeah I think that would be overkill ..a couple of specific zones or just one, with the reputation of being "killer" at night. No need to go overboard. Would like to see changing seasons though spring, summer, winter, fall for harvests (rares that pop during specific seasons) Saga of Ryzom did this, back in 2004ish. Season would change every four days...could make it a longer period of time as well.
Keep the "special" zones special ie: A Kithicor type zone ..would be its own unique self, Adventurer beware. :)
Cana
I tend to play casters. Being a warrior type and having to chase down mobs and hit em with whatever is not my thing... Look around and after spotting a mob ( exp donor ) nuke them from a far I say lol.
Anyway, sounds like night time in Pantheon will be very dangerous. If that's the case and I'm grouped with a warrior type I'll say " do you know what horrors are beyond?" whatever he/she replies I'll answer " then you go 1st" lol Besides warriors to the front casters in back. Someone has to see the bigger picture lol.
Risingmist said:I tend to play casters. Being a warrior type and having to chase down mobs and hit em with whatever is not my thing... Look around and after spotting a mob ( exp donor ) nuke them from a far I say lol.
Anyway, sounds like night time in Pantheon will be very dangerous. If that's the case and I'm grouped with a warrior type I'll say " do you know what horrors are beyond?" whatever he/she replies I'll answer " then you go 1st" lol Besides warriors to the front casters in back. Someone has to see the bigger picture lol.
Interesting angle. I think giving warriors the tankyness to handle it and casters the spells that allow warriors to see better would increase interclass cooperation.
HUGE YES to scary nights in Pantheon! Traveling at night should bring its own unique dangers as well. On a side note it would be kind of funny to get mugged by some orcs in the dark and to have to fight to get your money back! This is of course noting that they could ONLY steal a percentage of the money you have on you not every cent, that would go too far! :). How hilarious would it be to see your character being turned upside down hanging by the ankles as change fell out of your pockets while orcs in his gang scrambled to pick it up Sorta like this scene but better: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMEIYW-ho3k
Maybe they don't even try to fight you ....they just leave you knocked out for a few as they get away. Bonus points if you can buy a can of mace from a crafter. :p
I too remember how terrified I was in the early weeks of EQ1 release where nightime in Greater Faydark was utterly pitch blank. Infravision helped you see a bit, but just barely. But almost immediately it was just "ok, nighttime now, time to turn up the gamma" and dark was never a problem ever again.
So, we all want dark to be dark, but how do you defeat just changing the gamma of your monitor or whatever to compensate?
Seeing as how Rust also uses Unity Engine, I have high hopes for a dark night time in Pantheon. I feel like Rust's night time darkness is just a tad too much, but it is also a totally different game. What I like most is that they prevent almost all alterations of gamma/brightness to counter the darkness. Keep it treacherous!
"Nighttime in Pantheon... How scared should we be?"
Not entirely on topic for this thread as the last two streams with Cohh and Jim Lee were in a Dungeon and not open world but so I'm not sure how "nighttime" applies to my thoughts here, but I did a search for "Darkness" and it was this thread or one about transgenders... so this thread wins.
I'm wondering what everybody's thoughts were on where the Darkness is in the last two threads now that they have redone the graphics. I got to thinking about it after reading a post by NoobieDoo about Campfires in the AI thread How open is your mind? .
In the current streams
The Cohh group seemed pretty well lit up with Torches on the walls and then Aradune sporting the flaming sword and a torch, and then Convo was also holding a torch they lit the hall's up pretty good, Based on our perspective looking through the eyes of an Elf. But I did notice Machall (Dwarf) doing some pulls without a light source. Conventional Dwarves being miners, it would stand to reason they would have improved night vision. However in reading the info we have on Dwarves in order to confirm or deny my assumption I find the VS Pantheon Dwarves "They quickly established a foothold in the southern tundra" and living in a Tundra area (I assume Snow in Terminus is White) would Not support improved night vision would it?
And then in Jim's stream again there were the torches on the wall's of course, and Aradune also had his sword and torch and our perspective was through the eyes of an Archai.
Noticing no change between Elf eye's and Archai eyes I'm betting they haven't made any adjustments for the night vision of the different races yet, that's probably a late Beta thing.
But in general I really like where they are with the Darkness. it wasn't so dark they couldn't get around, and it wasn't so light that the darkness could be ignored. I saw dead ends that were totally dark until somebody came in and lit them. I saw dark nooks and cranny's where things could hide out (with the exception of the GIANT white name tag's over there heads) I wouldn't wanted to have seen it any lighter, but a bit darker could happen, I'm kind of indifferent about that level.
Looking down the hallways I'm not sure the Light at the end of the Tunnel look really sat well with me. It was dark where the group was, but looking down the hall in either direction seemed to look as if it was lit up brighter down there. until they got there. Like it got darker as they moved toward it.
Where NoobieDoo's Campfire post made me go back and re-watch these streams was the thought that this Campfire could be used in a room where a group may have put a camp in. In early EQ campfires had a little buff but they weren't much good for anything but cooking and few that I ever seen used them to cook in the field. All that was usually done prior to heading out. So I like to look for was to make these small things more useful. I would like to see a campfire light up one of these rooms pretty good Like 5 -10 times as much as a torch. Glowing out into the hallways where if a group was holding a room it would glow enough to help the puller find the room. In this case the group was mobile and this wouldn't apply, but when groups are just holding a room. Or even in outdoor zones at night glow bright enough to bee seen accost the zone like a beacon.
