A Group that does not have to be the perfect mix of classes to do great things.
Danger, we need danger. How can we know Joy and Success without having Fear to balance it out.
No Keyed zones, They destroy small guilds and break up groups of friends, If zones are keyed then one key should get the whole group in.
Exploration, where you actually find something while exploring that nook in the hillside.
Camps, like in EQ. Anything could happen because of random/rare spawns, and events that occured due to lore, and maybe a train coming by; things that suddenly turned the situation from calm steady pulling and socializing into crazy town.
We need a game that is not dumbed down. I remember a quest in EQ2 called "999 year old Port", That quest line was so awesome to me at the time because you had to actually think a little bit to complete the line of quests. Too bad I only found a few quests in the whole game over the years I played it that required any real amount of thinking. I am sure the aformentioned quest has probably been changed or removed by now.
A game with some unique character. In one of the gameplay streams, the gang entered a cave and a large banner unfurled on the top of the screen with some kind of quest related info or something. It looked a bit corney, but the more I thought about it , it was absolutley cool as hell because it was just so friggen Old School, but there it was in a modern game.
>But without an automatic matchmaker.<
Is an automatic matchmaker really that bad?
Bear with me before foaming at the mouth at the thought of today's groupfinders which teleport groups to a dungeon and then teleport them back to where they were, often after doing a dungeon without even talking to eachother.
Suppose there was a matchmaker. You signed up for a dungeon (though it does not need to be limited to dungeons). After six ungrouped people signed up the matchmaker put them in a group.
It did NOT transport them anywhere - getting to the dungeon was their problem. It just grouped them without the need for endless LFG messages.
Is this bad if the matchmaker has a mechanism for assuring a somewhat balanced party (at least one tank at least one healer)?
Is this bad if the matchmaker is even less intrusive and takes the first six people (to me this seems worse - wastes a lot of time putting people in groups that cannot succeed)?
dorotea said: ... Is an automatic matchmaker really that bad? ...
It is important to consider the (unintended) consequences of this :
1. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not take 'reputation' into account
2. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not allow for people playing their characters in individual styles
... something they could explain to an actual person
3. 'Automated Matchmaking' cannot create 'balanced' groups without 'forcing' 'holy-quaternity'
4. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not enhance grouping skills
These are merely a few of the issues with 'Automated Matchmaking' that would be encountered ... many of which run counter to the game's Tenets.
It is imperative to introduce newer players to the idea of both joining groups .... and creating their own.
These would not happen with 'Automated Matchmaking' acting as an invisible crutch.
It is for this reason (and many others) that many here are against 'Automated Matchmaking'. It is not dogma, 'railing against any casual mechanics for sack-cloth and brimstone' but a real concern that this is a mechanic that will severely inhibit the integration of players from more casual games.
For this game to succeed, they must be able to integrate!
.... anything that inhibits this must be viewed critically!
PS: I am looking forwards to forming a 6-Summoner group at some point! Somthing an 'Automated Matchmaker' would never create!
Evoras, has played WoW for an entire evening without talking once....
Evoras said:dorotea said: ... Is an automatic matchmaker really that bad? ...It is important to consider the (unintended) consequences of this :
1. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not take 'reputation' into account
2. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not allow for people playing their characters in individual styles
... something they could explain to an actual person
3. 'Automated Matchmaking' cannot create 'balanced' groups without 'forcing' 'holy-quaternity'
4. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not enhance grouping skillsThese are merely a few of the issues with 'Automated Matchmaking' that would be encountered ... many of which run counter to the game's Tenets.
It is imperative to introduce newer players to the idea of both joining groups .... and creating their own.
These would not happen with 'Automated Matchmaking' acting as an invisible crutch.It is for this reason (and many others) that many here are against 'Automated Matchmaking'. It is not dogma, 'railing against any casual mechanics for sack-cloth and brimstone' but a real concern that this is a mechanic that will severely inhibit the integration of players from more casual games.
For this game to succeed, they must be able to integrate!
.... anything that inhibits this must be viewed critically!PS: I am looking forwards to forming a 6-Summoner group at some point! Somthing an 'Automated Matchmaker' would never create!
Evoras, has played WoW for an entire evening without talking once....
They are definitely some good points, Evoras.
We have said we will not have auto matchmaking in Pantheon, we will make it easier to find each other and provide tools to help form groups but we will not automate the process, that is important for people to understand as it does have a big impact on the game and the community.
Kilsin said:Evoras said:dorotea said: ... Is an automatic matchmaker really that bad? ...It is important to consider the (unintended) consequences of this :
1. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not take 'reputation' into account
2. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not allow for people playing their characters in individual styles
... something they could explain to an actual person
3. 'Automated Matchmaking' cannot create 'balanced' groups without 'forcing' 'holy-quaternity'
4. 'Automated Matchmaking' does not enhance grouping skillsThese are merely a few of the issues with 'Automated Matchmaking' that would be encountered ... many of which run counter to the game's Tenets.
It is imperative to introduce newer players to the idea of both joining groups .... and creating their own.
These would not happen with 'Automated Matchmaking' acting as an invisible crutch.It is for this reason (and many others) that many here are against 'Automated Matchmaking'. It is not dogma, 'railing against any casual mechanics for sack-cloth and brimstone' but a real concern that this is a mechanic that will severely inhibit the integration of players from more casual games.
For this game to succeed, they must be able to integrate!
.... anything that inhibits this must be viewed critically!PS: I am looking forwards to forming a 6-Summoner group at some point! Somthing an 'Automated Matchmaker' would never create!
Evoras, has played WoW for an entire evening without talking once....
They are definitely some good points, Evoras.
We have said we will not have auto matchmaking in Pantheon, we will make it easier to find each other and provide tools to help form groups but we will not automate the process, that is important for people to understand as it does have a big impact on the game and the community.
Exactly. Thanks Evo and Kils!
Fear. I want to weigh my options, conciously consider the ramifications and then choose a course of action. I prefer game apsects that highly encourage me to become educated to some degree before I blindly stumble into a situation that will prove not only deadly, but require considerable efforts of recovery. Without that sense of fear, or at the very least respect for the environment, there can be no sense of awe.
Feyshtey said:Fear. I want to weigh my options, conciously consider the ramifications and then choose a course of action. I prefer game apsects that highly encourage me to become educated to some degree before I blindly stumble into a situation that will prove not only deadly, but require considerable efforts of recovery. Without that sense of fear, or at the very least respect for the environment, there can be no sense of awe.
+1 Exactly! Couldn't agree more.
Two things for me. Class interdependancy and death penalty.
These are most important to me (assuming basic things like functioning gameplay and general polish are givens). These two systems have the most profound impact on what characters people choose to play and how they play them. Stiff death penalties encourages players to judge risk/reward of their actions, and those that chose not to will learn by doing (i.e fire hot, don't touch). Class interdependancy supports grouping, specialized classes, and a strong community.
These two pillars are talked about frequently on these forums for good reason, and are mechanics VR needs to get right at launch, while they have everyones attention.
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If I had to pick a third, it would be animations. Please please please, do this right. I'll take low res graphics any day over poor animations. Games with world-class animations (i.e WoW) hold visual value far beyond their years, even in spite of having rather dated texture resolution and poly counts. If the animations are subpar and the game doesnt "feel" right, players will hold less tolerance for any remainder of shortcomings the game may have.
Bazgrim said:Depth of strategy - a wide variety of dynamic abilities that allow for an almost infinite amount of room for players to develop tactics.
Nice screenshots btw. Good to see some structures we haven't seen before.
Very important to me! I want fighting to resemble speed chess instead of the card game, War, with a stacked deck. IE; I hate when I feel like it doesn't matter what skill or spell I use because 99% of fights are a foregone conclusion. Some other games don't even let you string 3 spells together before your "foe" has melted at your feet. I want to feel the weight of battle. I want to have to consider my options, preparation, and strategy before I even engage in a fight. Even then I want to have to think on my feet or else face defeat. <- (Hey, I'm a poet, and i didn't even know it) And if I realize I'm in over my head and have to flee, I should be breaking out in a cold sweat! There is a primal, visceral nature to THE CHASE. Ask anyone who has had to 'train to zone' when there was a very real chance they could be snared and eaten alive before they made it out.
Also meaningful progression. Leveling up should feel like a real accomplishment, not just another foregone conclusion. Everyone who plays this game should be thinking "wow, that guy got to level 20! They must be a great player and have overcome many very real challenges" Think about it, does that run through anyone's mind when they see someone gain a new level in todays MMO's? Nope.
Also discovery, which I've read in many other posts. I hate it when you start a new game and they give you a fully drawn map, tell you that you are a Hero and fill your screen with hint info. I still vivdly remember being dropped in the middle of a swamp as a brand new troll. It was dark and the sounds of the night filled my ears. I felt vulnerable and alone. I wandered around and couldn't see very far, only the next little mud island with something waiting to eat me. When I finally found a torch burning on a post, it sent a thrill through me. And to find some friendly guards was a welcome relief. I had fought a few very dangerous snakes and alligators with my broken stick and again, I FELT the weight of battle. After coming from that and figuring out the possibilities of the area, it was thrilling to move to other areas. It felt like a grand adventure to figure out a way to the docks and sail to a whole different continent.
One of the most disheartening experiences of my gaming life was when someone took off all their armor and weapons and beat a bunch of mobs to death that were all at least a few levels higher than him. In that moment, all my hard work and experiences of getting to that point suddently felt very trivial. My plea to the devs is this: Don't trivialize anything! Replacing a piece of leather armor with studded leather armor should feel like a needed challenge that has finally been overcome.
Feeling needed is a key that I believe VR is already sold on. Especially for a highly social game. Unique and needed, able to solve problems in unique ways and contribute to the needs of others. Necessity is the mother of invention. There should be very real needs built into the structure of the game. Then we players can find those needs through innovation, discovery, and collaboration.
You see a pattern here? I felt, I felt, I felt! My art teacher said something that I think is very true. He said, "Great art is not about how well something is painted, or sculpted, or arranged. It's about how it makes people FEEL" Visionary Realms team, you are not building a game, you are evoking feelings in your audience. Please make it special!
jpedrote said:... The character movement animations need to be on point because you look at them 90% of your play time...
Agreed, I still can't get past those dumb EQ2 combat animations. Just the combat stance makes everyone look like some 50 year old accountant that took a few months of Karate at the local strip mall dojo. Oh, and he really needs to poop! And every character from the tiny gnome to the huge ogre has the exact same combat animations. I guess they took the same character model and make it bigger or smaller or thicker or thinner, so why should they differentiate the animations.
I think it's imporant from a MMO to get the feeling im wanted and needed by other players, that I have something to contribute and theres a purpose to leveling. I want loads of classes each with their own unique abilties that massively overpower players compared to playing on your own. Like a trinity that makes grouping easier, wizard that make travel easier, Resurrection from healers and helpfuls buffs from accross the spectrum of classes.