Kelem said:" just talk to me, communicate, be more transparant ' They have done all of these things and yet there are still some demanding blood. It's understandable to be chomping at the bit for more news, more something... anything, especially when you are helping to fund a project as much or little as it may be. VR understands this and they have explained in detail why information has slowed. They keep reassuring that more info is on the way and as a community we should give them that time. Remember people this isn't a multimillion dollar company, it's a small team doing their best and trying their hardest to meet the time demands of some people.
There will always be those who cry and complain that they are not getting enough, and want to open presents the day before Christmas. VR knows how to deal with people who jump on this bandwagon. The less we know the more we complain and the more exiting it is to get into that new game you know little about. Find out for yourself once you finally care able to play. Or don't and just play wow where there is a pop up at every turn telling you what to do and how to do it.
VR I love you but thank you for not holding my hand.
"Never cut a tree down in the wintertime. Never make a negative decision in the low time. Never make your most important decisions when you are in your worst moods. Wait. Be patient. The storm will pass. The spring will come." -- Robert H. Schuller
"Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success." -- Napoleon Hill
Truth be told, there are about 50 other famous quotes available that signify the importance of patience. All good things are worth waiting for, right? While I have empathy for both parties, I also have hope for myself; I have seen firsthand the result of rushing a game through it's development and as a result, the world missed out on an opportunity to experience something truly awesome that would stand the test of time. I appreciate the concerns about wanting information as much as anybody! At the end of the day, though, there is a process that needs to be adhered to. I have been spearheading a campaign that has united nearly 40 VIP/Champion players together and if there is one thing I have consistently found, it's that people are passionate about this game. We all have our own unique way of pushing through this waiting period -- some are set on getting their affairs in order to maximize playtime for launch, some are stacking their bankroll to save for an ultimate experience PC, some are playing other games to keep themselves occupied even if their interest in those games is mild at best. Others like to theorycraft or absorb the full story of lore that has been provided ... some want to work on fansites and some are committed to the all-important relationship building process with future guild mates.
Despite all these differences, there is one glaring fact in the center of that which has pulled us together; we're here because there is nowhere else to go. If you want to relive the golden years in the platinum age, you don't really have much choice other than to let evolution take it's course. In saying all this, does that make me a bandwagon fanboy? If that's your opinion, kudos to you. Honestly though, I am as big a critic as anybody. At this point, logging into the site with the hopes of seeing an update is a part of my daily ritual. There are far more bad days than there are good in this regard, and with each new day, I like to think of it as an opportunity to catch up on something that I may have missed. I am a naturally optimistic person, almost to a fault, but if there is one thing I have learned in life, it's this: “Incredible change happens in your life when you decide to take control of what you do have power over instead of craving control over what you don't.” The source of our frustration lies in the fact that we have an unhealthy attachment to something that is quite simply out of our control. Allow the process to develop organically; forcing a square object through a round hole will either damage the object or the wall, so what will it be? In this scenario, we are the object, and Pantheon is the wall. That wall is very important to many of us so I would kindly ask that you preserve the integrity of said wall and let the architects finish patching it up. As far as you yourself is considered, that's your destiny and you can do with it as you please; but heed the powerful messages that have stood the test of time and realize that you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.
We're on the verge of some truly groundbreaking updates here in the very near future. It has been stated numerous times that VR's goal was to get pre-alpha launched in Q1 or Q2 of 2017. Seeing that we have yet to arrive to the halfway point of that goal, I think it's a fair assessment in saying that there is no need to panic. Another stream is around the corner and the completion of our new game development forums are nigh. Use this very valuable time to prepare for the much anticipated homecoming celebration, it's fast approaching! If you're doing this alone, reach out to others of a similar mindset and see if you can share this burden together as it can do wonders with alleviating the pressure. Every decision that VR makes at this point is critical as to how their success will be measured in the future, but you should know that as excited as we are to step through that threshold, they are even moreso anxious to see it happen. The floodgates will open, the masses will be appeased, and the world will be a better place if this event is triggered in the most tactical way possible. A part of their job is to get the timing element perfectly poised for maximum effect -- you only get one chance for a first impression, and to that, I propose a cheer to getting it right.
I'm going to put on my 'Fan of a Game and Excited Forum Member' hat that I usually wear whenever a new MMORPG is coming out, so hopefully I can bridge the gap a little.
There's nothing unusual going on. We have goals for the next stream that we want to meet, and it takes some time to work through them. Internal playtesting has accelerated and we have had a lot to fine tune over the last few weeks. So for the sake of 'Is this game really on track?', the answer is 'Absolutely'. As mentioned above, a primary goal is to get additional funding to move much more quickly. I will say that with a team this size it is remarkable how much gets done compared to a giant organization, but it can be very unpredictable if we don't have extra people-power to fill in when some aspect becomes labor-intensive. I think nearly every game sets a timeline that is waaay too optimistic, and even the heavy hitters struggle to meet their milestones. We are certainly cognizant of it, though.
We also sometimes fail to keep in mind that not everything we post is visible to the general population here, so as we are updating various forums and various groups not everyone is privy to as many details. You definitely have a valid concern if we are not keeping everyone at least reasonably up-to-date with where we are.
In general, we want the progress from the last stream to this stream to be similar to the improvement between the last streams. Some of it might be very noticeable, and some might be under the hood. The team has been growing, and that is not only helping get things done a bit faster, it's fostering more discussion on the basic mechanisms of how the game should look and feel, and opening up discussion on the next systems we want to work on. That's exciting as a developer, and as a player. Right now there are now a lot of new components that are in their infancy and not quite ready to show off in a newsletter, and I understand the disappointment when you perhaps don't find anything that really excites you this month.
We do have internal milestones but in the end we are more than willing to scrap work on something if it doesn't feel right and try out alternatives. If we were stuck on a mandatory timeline I don't think we could make nearly as great a game. Obviously, we know we have a lot of anxious people, and as hard as it is to believe sometimes, we are just as anxious to play this game with all of you as well. We also want our streams to be exciting by presenting as many surprises as possible. Even within the team we sometimes hold back surprises for each other to discover.
Hopefully that helps a bit and we are gamers just like you, so any passion and even criticism like this is completely understood, and absorbed.
Im not aware of VR ignoring questions and threads? Im sure you might not have liked the answers, but thats not their problem. Im also not familiar with them over-promising or under-delivering or failing to meet promises. We will be getting new forums sooner rather than later. And there is a new stream coming soon with a bunch of new areas and a new class reveal, and will likely show many other new things. And I expect all of this before alpha. The only thing that has had any kind of date applied to it is the alpha. They have said for a while not 1st or 2nd quarter of 2017. And even if it kind of sucks and I know folks are just as impatient as I, that means at the very least you shouldnt be worried until June comes and goes. If it doesnt come til June and they want 1 year of testing (which they have said) before Launch, then that means around June 2018 for release. But technically they have another 6 months after that and could still get it out in 2018. Is that ideal? No. Do we all want to play ASAP? Yes. But we just need to be patient. I think you are jumping the gun. And I am no white knight. I am a fan, but not a fanboy (Nintendo and SE killed that for me ages ago). And please this is not "POSSIBLY (more than likely) be a warning of dark roads ahead." Now you just sound like an alarmist. Be patient. Im not telling you to not have concerns. Im saying at least wait until you have valid concerns.
Here's what I do.
1. Find a game with Dwarves. Play it extensively, while waiting for this.
2. Other games have beta atm, ending in midweek where another test will open. (As long as not under NDA that prohibits work on other games.)
3. I own business. I have been doing everything possible to keep it intact for future 20hour days testing Pantheon.
4. Think I'm lucky, there are people who have dropped monies into the game since like 2014. They are actually very happy about the progress because prior to the latest two streams there was years between information.
5. Found friends to talk to about the game.
Its not much but kilsin said, Here, That they are putting the finishing touchs on two new zones and one class for the next stream. Not sure if that link is going to work but it was a recent post from pantheon's reddit about the upcoming stream. You folks just need to calm down now. They are trying there best and even if they fail.... well hell i couldnt of done any better, thats life.
Zuljan said:Nimryl said:Don't care how long it takes aslong as they get it right. As we all know a broken game launch always fails.
Well if you haven't noticed the other threads here about people allegedly hearing/reading VR talk about a second crowdfunding campaign to finish the game, in addition to every update we see still being from the same 3 zones we saw 4 months ago on stream, with the same class/races we saw 4 months ago, what does that tell you? It tells me if all they have are rice farms and a few structures in Thronefast to show us after 4 months and don't even have an elf model/zone, wizard/myr or anything. Every updated picture is; Wild's End, the snake place, or Thronefast; which are ALL the same zones from 4 months ago. You'd think (just maybe) theyd be posting all of the other zones (there shouldl be at least 30 at release I would assume) or at least hints, teases, or anything about work done; however, there is no such evidence. The evidence is now all suggesting the opposite. So while I agree with you, it's important to read the glaring signs.
Sarim said:Whoa, some people got up on the wrong foot today?
Honestly, if you have been around for a while, you should have gotten used to the speed at which things move here. VR is not Blizzard with a multi million dollar budget, they need to work with a small (and very dedicated) team. So far, they have built a working game, with a small number of zones. This served to implement and test the basic game features. Now (as in the latest news), they are looking for worldbuilders/designers, which tells me they're happy with their base game and ready to flesh out the content (zones, quests, mobs etc).
I wouldn't be so quick with accusations of "broken promises". I understand your impatience...I also want to see more, or better, just jump into the game, but Kilsin (and Brad) have said that there would be no point right now, there's not enough content yet to test. Give them the time they need for their job.
Exactly. I notice that many(not ALL, but most) posts from folks who seem unhappy about the progress of the game and amount of information being released have very low post counts, which would make one feel they have not been around for very long. Most of us who have followed this game throughout it's inception--from KS to now--know what is going on and would caution those who expected a finished game this year to go back and do some research. A finished game was not promised this year...heck, beta wasn't even promised, just hinted at.
People are excited about the game, and the slow pace of new reveals coming out is just causing people to vent. Its a good problem to have. It's not just about streams, weekly screenshots are nice, but Id like something more. The class/race chart was nice as well as the new FAQ. You created this communitiy of players looking forward to the game and talking about it on the forums, you need to keep the community growing and players excited. You dont need to plan a big strategic stream. Even a fly through a particular zone, more details on a specific class, Pantheon music, or new mob design. Theres a big team working on various parts of the game that can atleast showcase a bit of their work to the public.
I am extremely hopeful about this game and really want it to happen.
That being said, the fact that they need additional funding to complete the game means that they don't have the money right now to complete the game.
How many games have you seen in the past 10 years that didn't have enough money to finish, end up actually getting completed? Not many I would imagine.
So while I am hopeful, and I feel I put my Knights pledge in to a good cause, I fully understand that it simply may not happen.
I will continue to be a concerned watcher of news, but in the meantime, I'll play other games and enjoy them.
-Briz
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Thank you VR for everything you have done and are currently doing. For being as open as you can with us about what is going on in the game and for making the right calls on when to reveal parts about it. Thank you to the team actively watching and commenting on the forums for putting up with all the repetitive threads and questions as well as the toxicity embodied within this very one. It takes far more to make an MMO than any one of us likely fully grasps and I am just happy to have you working toward making a game that lines up almost exactly with what I have been looking for since the fall of EQ. If you make it to the end I'll be overjoyed, if you somehow don't make it to that goal, thank you for doing your best to try. I knew full well that pledging money was a donation toward the cause.
Honestly people, they have been very open with what they can and can't talk about at any given time. Just because you think they can and aren't doesn't change anything. They have said they are working hard on getting to pre-alpha many many times and they don't give specific dates because they can't honestly know when everything will fall into place. Every other bit of information you are craving I am sure they will be eager to share with us when said info is ready and mostly finalized. The fact that they are actively hiring new people to the project should ease your mind about some wild notion that they are failing and running out of funds, as for the most part you don't add weight to a sinking ship.
Thank you Visionary Realms.
They continue to hire. I haven't heard of anyone leaving for greener pastures, so I'll stick around.
I'd think that finding the right type of deal for funding would be difficult. I'd imagine that they want to continue to be able to make their own game and not have to worry about trying to push a product out the door in order to recoup money for an investor.
Zuljan said:Nimryl said:Don't care how long it takes aslong as they get it right. As we all know a broken game launch always fails.
Well if you haven't noticed the other threads here about people allegedly hearing/reading VR talk about a second crowdfunding campaign to finish the game, in addition to every update we see still being from the same 3 zones we saw 4 months ago on stream, with the same class/races we saw 4 months ago, what does that tell you? It tells me if all they have are rice farms and a few structures in Thronefast to show us after 4 months and don't even have an elf model/zone, wizard/myr or anything. Every updated picture is; Wild's End, the snake place, or Thronefast; which are ALL the same zones from 4 months ago. You'd think (just maybe) theyd be posting all of the other zones (there shouldl be at least 30 at release I would assume) or at least hints, teases, or anything about work done; however, there is no such evidence. The evidence is now all suggesting the opposite. So while I agree with you, it's important to read the glaring signs.
You need to stop believing in other peoples misinformation, unless it comes from Visionary Realms, consider it an opinion/assumption/rumour.
Laura said:
We were promised video streams would be more frequent in 2017 than it was in 2016. We got 3 video streams within a year in 2016 and now the first quarter of '17 is almost over and not even an announcement.
We were told Pre-Alpha should be around the beginning of 2017, still no news about a new stream.
I might have missed something but I didn't even see any kind of progress regarding new features / combat mechanics / classes that would justify all this delay during these three months. I mean, just a post talking about how Faction System (for example) is now fully finalized would make me feel the guys at VR are actually doing something.
I'm just posting as a reminder, not as a complaint. If you guys at VR need time, sure, but at least communicate with us what's going on at the moment. What kind of features are being worked on, what did you accomplish so far and what's the schedule for the next quarter. Don't give me a page loaded with text just talking about nothing, give me simple brief language put the features/mechanics that are being worked on/completed in an easy to read (and easy to write) page. I don't want to look at random Screenshots of the same things we've already seen or long blog posts about lore, Lore alone doesn't make a game. Just talk to me, communicate, be more transparent about it and once that's done.. take ALL the time you want.
I am a bit disappointed to see a post like this after everything we have demonstrated, and this is why we (and most other game companies) don't give ETAs or dates, as people cling onto them for dear life and try to hold us accountable, which in the gaming industry is just ludicrous when tasked with something as enormous as creating an MMORPG from scratch.
We have been nothing but upfront and transparent with all of our information and considering that we are not only preparing the game for our first ever testing phase - pre-alpha but also trying to squeeze in another stream to show off a brand new class from our newly released class and race combo and also two completely new zones plus all the work, resources, time and effort that goes into building/creating/populating/coding those things since the last stream it should go without saying that it is a lot of work to get through and something we are on target to completing and showing off when it is ready but to assume we are "not doing anything" because you personally haven't seen a specific update that appeals to you is disappointing.
We have demonstrated good measurable progress time and time again and instead of knowing that we will come through and deliver again like we have proven to do each and every time, people make threads like this calling us out and it is completely unnecessary and just drives the community apart.
Posts like this do nothing but cause unnecessary negative reactions to them among the community and there really is no justification for this post, since these are development forums, we will be releasing more development information as it is ready to be released so please stay tuned.
Please do not create any more threads like this as they will be closed or removed, here is a list of updates since Jan 1, 2017;
January Newsletter - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/latest_news/
February Newsletter - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/latest_news/
March Newsletter (just released) - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/latest_news/
Game On - MMORPG interview - http://www.mmorpg.com/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/news/game-on-visionary-realms-talks-pantheon-and-industry-jobs-1000042957
Class and Race Combo reveal - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5228/pantheon-class-and-race-combinations
Huge FAQ Revamp - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
Won "The Most Wanted MMO Of 2017" over at MMORPG.com - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4992/we-did-it-we-won
Visionary Realms added 5 new team members: Tim, Robert, Aaron, Jacob and Nick - https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/1/news-and-announcements
Featured on several games media sites, MassivelyOP, MMORPG.com, The Unpaid Gamers
Not to mention the countless hours I personally spend each day/week/month keeping you all informed and giving as much information as humanly possible so you can stay up to date and able to form accurate opinions, all this and more while we continue working hard on the games' development and preparing for a new stream, revealing two new zones, a new class and getting the game ready for pre-alpha.
Kilsin said:We have been nothing but upfront and transparent with all of our information and considering that we are not only preparing the game for our first ever testing phase - pre-alpha but also trying to squeeze in another stream to show off a brand new class from our newly released class and race combo and also two completely new zones plus all the work, resources, time and effort that goes into building/creating/populating/coding those things since the last stream
I think a lot of the angst stems from the fact that the sentence quoted above (long though it may be) is probably more info about what has been done in the last three months in one place than anything else.
1) Stream confirmed
2) 2 new zones are being worked on and getting ready for stream
3) new class is being worked on and getting ready for stream
4) new race is being worked on and getting ready for stream
5) Prepping for Pre-Alpha is underway and from the way your worded it will be sometime shortly after the live stream (please forgive me if this is not correct)
So hopefully this will show that progress is being done and alleviate some of the dread that seems to happen in between information releases.
Final note for Devs/Kilsin the Monthly newsletters have been pretty dry the last 2-3 months. I for one would rather see a quarterly newsletter with actual information about the game (class reveals, race reveals, zones etc) with meaningful info about those areas rather than a monthly interview and some new screenshots. Something to think about :D
I'm not one for just agreeing or blindly abiding simply in hopes of some favoritism that won't materialize. There's no doubt, this thread contains some unhealthy dependencies on this game's progress. We'd all like more information and wish the game was ready for everyone, but it's not. VR is in a difficult position, where the age of demanding transparent information is now and people like Kilsin aren't allowed to share more than crumbs to keep the hounds satiated. The game isn't ready and they aren't willing to give away the farm to keep everyone happy, end of story. Frankly, I don't think every inch of the game should be available and under the microscope, many of the best games ever released were never revealed with as much transparency as this, but yes crowdfunding is a horse of a different color.
While that is the long and short of it, there were some mistakes made, albeit necessary evils. The marketing model for this crowd fund leaned on promising tester access on multiple levels. One of the areas I will agree with the hungry hounds on, is that this game is well into Pre-Alpha as of today. Now VR decides what they consider pre-pre-uber-alpha or just alpha, so it doesn't really matter what I say. But I would like to see less leaning on the idea that the game isn't ready for vip testers. I understand not letting testers in too early because of the negative publicity it could cause if people decide to bash the state of the game, but pre-alpha testing should be the gritty mechanics where things are hobbling around on 3 legs and your character just fell through the earth in 3 different /dance animations - that's PRE-alpha. I'd just like to see less smoke and mirrors in the sense that there should just be an alpha and a beta, the internal only testing you're doing now is the pre-alpha.
Also, hope those new forums are close, I know they're a big step in the progress of things.
Information is good, great in fact but it must be properly dispersed. Seeing empty zones like someone posted would serve no purpose. Maybe if this was 6 years ago or so, i would understand. We all have seen so many MMO's fail because they were released too soon.
I dont want this to happen anymore, to ANY dev team developping a game. Heck even for dev team to well established companies, whether they are making a MMO or not. I got the disposable income to help projects such as this, but i want them to be delivered when they are ready! FULLY READY!
Nothing hurts me more than seeing a game rushed for xxx reasons. We've been provided a steady stream of news and infos and they havent changed their "tempo".
So take your time! I want to up my pledge in the coming months to the next tier. So I need that time! lol
Malist said:Also, hope those new forums are close, I know they're a big step in the progress of things.
Same here new forums will be huge specially since it will let us see exactly what we got with our pledge, been so long i don't really remember and they have changed lol.
I am surprised that this thread is still open to be honest, I do not see the point anymore. VR has certainly made solid efforts to inform us that there is progress being made and new people being hired To help progress it even faster. I am confused why anyone would still be considered in the dark? What other games in testing have done this good of a job informing their forum members? Absolutely none that I can think of...
Beef- Great job taking the time to clear up the matter with actual feedback from prior posts.
I began, lurking on the forums and then after a few months I started pledging at a rate where I could only post on the general forums, because they were engaging and it was nice seeing the same people comment.
Later, I then upped it to a regular subscription- or what is considered the assumed normal monthly sub price. However, at the time I upped it to a regular subscriotion I indicated how I would be willing to pay roughly 4 times that assumed normal monthly sub price for a good game.
Last month, I upped it to that level I said I would be willing to pay for a sub.
Dreconic said:Kilsin said:We have been nothing but upfront and transparent with all of our information and considering that we are not only preparing the game for our first ever testing phase - pre-alpha but also trying to squeeze in another stream to show off a brand new class from our newly released class and race combo and also two completely new zones plus all the work, resources, time and effort that goes into building/creating/populating/coding those things since the last stream
I think a lot of the angst stems from the fact that the sentence quoted above (long though it may be) is probably more info about what has been done in the last three months in one place than anything else.
1) Stream confirmed
2) 2 new zones are being worked on and getting ready for stream
3) new class is being worked on and getting ready for stream
4) new race is being worked on and getting ready for stream
5) Prepping for Pre-Alpha is underway and from the way your worded it will be sometime shortly after the live stream (please forgive me if this is not correct)
So hopefully this will show that progress is being done and alleviate some of the dread that seems to happen in between information releases.
Final note for Devs/Kilsin the Monthly newsletters have been pretty dry the last 2-3 months. I for one would rather see a quarterly newsletter with actual information about the game (class reveals, race reveals, zones etc) with meaningful info about those areas rather than a monthly interview and some new screenshots. Something to think about :D
All of the above has been confirmed multiple times in multiple places, for those who follow us regularly that information is already known, for those that don't there are things like the search function, FAQ, Video's of live streams, interviews etc. with all of this information in them, for those who are still too lazy, there are recaps and monthly roundups done by us, Nick and some fansites.
As for the newsletter, it is run by the CM team for the community, it is not an outlet for consistent game updates although we do share some announcements on there or include them in the ICYMI section.