Kilsin said:Bazgrim said:Iksar said:Yeah it's just yet another Practicality vs. Realism debate. Repairs are one of those things that I hate to endorse, yet I do it anyway. Because it does actually add more to the game than you'd think. For one thing, it's a good plat sink and it does just "make sense." And it also potentially opens up a new type of situational gear. D&D has rust monsters that chew up your items faster, so if you anticipate fighting mobs that wear out your gear faster, you should bring special gear that is more resistant to wear. But like I said, I think items wear out way too fast in a lot of games. So those types of mobs should be pretty rare and overall on a day-to-day basis, degradation should be very gradual so repairing doesn't just become a chore.
And to clarify, giving player crafters the ability to repair weapons and armor opens up an opportunity for more business and player interaction, but there should also be several NPCs in any big city (and probably at least one in most smaller towns) that can repair for you as well, so you don't always have to look for a crafter. Although perhaps a crafter would be able to do it for less money.
This is exactly how I view item repair, as much as people say they hate it, it adds so much to the game and keeps the economy ticking over, as long as the rate as which things deteriorate and the cost of repair is balanced correctly it shouldn;t ever be a worry, just something you do.
Allowing crafters to repair with maybe an added bonus of time before the weapon needs repairing again or a maybe an immunity for a set time would help encourage hiring a crafter or taking up crafting themselves, little things like this mixed in with all of our other systems, mechanics and features just add to the world and encourage socialisation and interactions. :)
This sounds awesome! Little details like this mean so much. I had a similar idea about horse breeding in another thread:
"I do like the idea of having a sense of progression tied into our mounts, but at the very least, they should be quite difficult to obtain. In my opinion, they shouldn't be accessible until level 35 at the earliest. Allow players to pamper their mounts with special kinds of feed, grooming, and housing stables. Perhaps introduce a breeding system that has a pedigree element tied into it -- allowing players to have some influence on this market would be awesome! They should have an ultra high purchase price, and a moderately high maintenance cost. If you don't take care of your companion, it could end up sustaining injury and need to be rehabiliated. Their stamina, top speed, carry bonus, etc would all be relative to how well they are taken care of. I think this would actually be a really cool "profession" similar to crafting. Instead of there being a static price for them, allow supply/demand to be factored in where the best mounts (with high scaling measurables) would be extremely sought after."
Maybe this isn't quite as feasible as the repair mechanic that you mentioned but it does deliver on those same core values of socialization and interaction. Also, perhaps purchasing mounts from an NPC vendor late in the game (after X amount of faction or other requirement) would cost a static value, but there could be incentives for people to go through an actual player when looking for a mount. I have no idea what the intentions are with mounts for Pantheon but if there is any degree of customization, I think it would be cool to tie that into some sort of profession. Maybe mounts could be tradeable to those who meet certain requirements, but they're all originally obtained through universal NPC mount vendors. The horse breeders would be able to purchase them and then train them over time, and depending on factors like I mentioned earlier (Quality of feed, grooming, excercise, housing) they would be able to improve them compared to the "stock horse." For their effort, the breeders would be able to sell them for a profit that is determined by the demand from the rest of the world. The bonus or improvement doesen't have to be anything crazy, maybe it could scale between 1-15% bonus for top speed, stamina, weight reduduction, etc.
Iksar said:Kilsin said:This is exctly how I view item repair, as much as people say they hate it, it adds so much to the game and keeps the economy ticking over, as long as the rate as which things deteriorate and the cost of repair is balanced correctly it shouldn;t ever be a worry, just something you do.
Allowing crafters to repair with maybe an added bonus of time before the weapon needs repairing again or a maybe an immunity for a set time would help encourage hiring a crafter or taking up crafting themselves, little things like this mixed in with all of our other systems, mechanics and features just add to the world and encourage socialisation and interactions. :)
I hope we won't require use of specific in-town only tools to repair. If we don't I will master all trades so my groups never have to break up the pulls for a repair run. :P
We don't have a repair system currently implemented and Brad has made it clear that he doesn't like it or want one, I was just giving my thoughts and agreeing with Baz ;)
Kilsin said:Iksar said:Kilsin said:This is exctly how I view item repair, as much as people say they hate it, it adds so much to the game and keeps the economy ticking over, as long as the rate as which things deteriorate and the cost of repair is balanced correctly it shouldn;t ever be a worry, just something you do.
Allowing crafters to repair with maybe an added bonus of time before the weapon needs repairing again or a maybe an immunity for a set time would help encourage hiring a crafter or taking up crafting themselves, little things like this mixed in with all of our other systems, mechanics and features just add to the world and encourage socialisation and interactions. :)
I hope we won't require use of specific in-town only tools to repair. If we don't I will master all trades so my groups never have to break up the pulls for a repair run. :P
We don't have a repair system currently implemented and Brad has made it clear that he doesn't like it or want one, I was just giving my thoughts and agreeing with Baz ;)
No repairing, sounds good to me.
IMHO repairing in EQ2 was a pain, and didn't add much to gameplay. It gave crafters (woodworking?) something extra to make and providing a currency sink, but otherwise, having to repair was more of an annoyance than anything else.
If we question if items can be used as currency,we could also question the need for a currency.
There is nothing special about instantly buying an item from a vendor.This may be personal experience ,but if I can buy the best of the best instantly I don't get the feeling that I earn the item.
That may sound strange to some as they would think " you earned the money so you earn the item if you buy it with the money"
To me there is no joy in it.I buy the best item from the auction house and then I wonder
"is this it?now what?" That was a dissapointing way to get it
The joke would be on the goldsellers too if there was no currency
Won't miss repair system either,
what if we had system that did the opposite and hones the items the longer you wear them?
Things, like reputation, could be used to gain and improve items,like in guildwars 1
Assuming for a minute Kurzicks and Luxon are 2 alignments here in this game;
Their items require a base amount of reputation to wear
As players gain more reputation they could upgrade their armor too.
The styles for that armor,the effects of alignment evil/good,the protection it provides etc are unlocked at certain reputation goals*
example 5000 rep ;the base faction armor is obtainable,some noticeable alignment influence,small protection
30000 rep first novice upgrade; more badass alignment looks for armor,new kinds of protection
60000 expert upgrade ;some of the hard obtainable alignment looks for armor(that normally only the higher in hierarchy wear)a decent choice for the protection armor provides
100000 master upgrade;Looks to be jealous about and more options for protection than you can handle
Iksar said:I really hate the idea, as most do, of items ever breaking entirely. You spend hours/days/weeks trying to get some drops and the thought of them going away forever blows hard. I imagine it would also have a far reaching net negative effect on the economy. It makes sense in the real world that items are breaking down etc, and to a degree in fantasy worlds. But when you have magically imbued armors, it seems there is fair room to argue that deterioration doesn't apply.
I even hate item repair as it is. It is fine in games like WoW etc but if you added repairs to the tab in something like EQ it would be completely awful. It was bad enough with corpse runs/vendor runs. Adding repair runs is bleh. If there were such a system then I think Bazgrim's idea would work best. It never fully breaks/vanishes but can be fixed with some crafting method.
I should have been a little more elaborate with what I said because I agree that finally getting that amazing raid drop would just suck if it was eventually going to break. So yeah, plenty of magical items should be resistant to completely breaking apart. I'd like to see the lesser quality items having the possibility to break completely. Maybe common and uncommon items can break completely and rare and legendary, or whatever names they use, the real magical items will not break. But a lot of the items you get early on will be exchanged for new ones as you level so why not give this an extra small push.
Either way though it's not a huge ordeal to me. I think item durability gives a little extra to the game but one of those things that isn't a game changer or even a deal breaker.
Only if repairing items was a player ability I could see the social benefits of it ; I make your fix of good ol' potions and yummies if you repair my items :D
Then we might as well have a player ability "recharge magical items" for wands and stuff
Shucklighter said:Manouk said:I get the idea, but how I see it working is: itemization on a very granular scale and I am not sure if such iutemization is feasible.
In my example of the FBSS being worthless ot the mage, yet in order to keep the- enforced- value of the FBSS, allow a breakdown of the FBSS into component parts. In this case the most valuable granular itemized value is the regen. Crafting can break down the regen piece to somehting mage can use and value is preserved. There maybe seperate bits not so valuable, like AC, or STA but are also seperated that can be rconfigured./
To make it fair I see the need to then itemize all stats, resists, to the point of 1 degree of regen and put a price/ value on all. Such granular itemizaiton would take alot of work. However I believe the spirit is: to the mage, the FBSS is worthless, so the mage gives it away with no cost.
Itemising each benefit with cost I feel moves it away from the contested concept of "need before greed", to internalizing in each player a "greed before need". Example: 1.Mage has the FBSS, cannot use it, gives it free to the warrior- warrior dances. 2. Mage has FBSS, and realizes mage can use the regen bit. In its pure/ dropped form the item can only be used by the warrior- mage then looks at warrior out of the side of half-lidded eyes anticipating or looking for an offensive, accusatory, remark or jealous behavior from warrior and does not stop until group is ended. Warrior offers to pay for FBSS. Mage becomes gollum.
And this is where I get stuck. Because I also see the OP idea of taking items out of the game to prevent over-value in one class by creating a mechanic to spread value across all classes. Which to prevent dilution to worthlessness would need a listed common value and be an aid to the general player .3 Both mage and warrior cheer that mage got the FBSS. Warrior could do without regen because he has more HP whereas the mage is frail. Like Capitalism and Socialism sort of where capitalism would say, the more of the item the less its worth but encourage lock downs(constant camping) of an item to preserve/inflate its value.(giving rise to macro-quest, bots, etc) Whereas socialism would say, the benefit is good for all no matter who uses it and therefore- has value across ALL classes, even to the point of outside uses like faction.
I'm a bit confused by this because the FBSS I know is ALL/ALL and the only thing it offers is haste, but it seems like the basic idea is so that the items can be broken down by their stats? And then these little stat pieces can be used by crafters to make new items? Am I following? Or way off?
sorry, not FBSS I meand Fungi tunic as being worthless to the mage- haste too for that matter if one considers a caster being far from melee- so the FBSS can be included. But as far as breaking them down, yes, that is how I understood the OP regarding the crafting aspect.
However the fixing prices- rather, the better phrased "price-fixing"- aspect is apparent when trying to place a consistent value on items outside of player need. It may create a social scenario where the caster becomes gollum, rather than a scenario where it is worthless to the caster. Which do you want to see?
Hence the foray into capitalism and socialism and 3rd possibility that was my way of trying to see the light in the OP.
I am not in favor of an outside source establishing a set price per item, or aspect of item based on in game currency as I feel that leads to "Station cash" and valuated pixels which is not a good thing as it applys a value where a value does not belong. I recall hearing that the basic chemical make up of a human being was worth roughly $1.97 U.S.