Forums » Crafting

Which Games Should We Model Crafting After?

    • 7 posts
    November 2, 2017 5:10 PM PDT

    Just read through everyone's post. FIrst I want to say many of you have very valid points and great references. It is a pleasure to see the experience on display here of what you have seen and why you like one style over another. I would like to add here as well.

    I am by no means an expert crafter, in fact only 1 game ever made me seriously consider doing only crafting while in game, and that was SWG. <--- More on that later.

     

    What I would like to express to any of the Developers and management of Pantheon is this. If you look at every succeful MMORPG game, and by succesfull I mean the ones that lasted well over 10 years without any major dips in population/subscriptions, you will notice a common part to all of them. Deep, Diverse and thoughtful Crafting and by default Crafting Communities, and player driven social interations because of it.

    SWG, EQ1 (The servers ARE STILL UP, and there are STILL people playing this game as I type this), Eve-Online, as some of the more prominent and noteworthy examples.

    I have played just about every MMORPG that has ever been released or Alpha and Beta'd the rest. (Whether I liked it to play it or not afterwards). Still the underlying Heart Beat of them all was the Crafting and communities that were built aorund them.

    THat being said some of the key things about those crafting communities and how crafting was implemented was VERY important. In no particular order here is what I noticed and believe to be some of the most vital;

    1- The crafted items NEED to be VIABLE in game upgrades. (not saying to completley replace or be better then say a High ENd Raid drop, but definitely something people would Seek out until they were doing that sort of content.

    2- Make items customizable from the stats of the item to the COLOR. (Nothing worse then seeing 10 warrios with ALL teh same armor AND the same COLOR.. let us be unique in our own way, its what makes getting armor and "dressing" your character up part of the RPG of an MMO RPG game.

    3- do NOT over simplify the "journey" to becoming a Master Crafter in a specific crafting profession. (it should not be easy, but it also should have a steady rewarding aspect as you get better, there are ENTIRE communities that play MMORPGs because they love nothing more than to socially interact with people and CRAFT/Create things)

    4- If the crafting community leaves or dies off or is neglected, the game suffers irrevocable downfall. (This has been seen in every MMORPG that ever had a viable well defined Crafting system integrated intot he game that was enjoyed. Many of these games incorporated special "quests that required the crafters to go into Dungeons or raids to complete a "crafting session" or get a specific drop for a specific crafting proffesion in order to progress something, as an example).

     

    That about does it from me. My personally favorite, as mentioned earlier was SWG's crafting, and almost made me do nothing but crafting. And here is why..

    beside what has already been said about it, this was something you could do and STILl enjoy being immersed into the SWG "universe" some of the items required you to KIll an animal to skin it (or at least hope you skinned it and didnt destroy the hide in the process), so you were still increasing your "combat" skills based off what talent.class you chose to be, AND provided a good source of income no matter the amount of involvement you were putting in to the crafting community, whether it was just farming the items, are building the pre-parts for larger finished products, etc. WHen you can log into a game and go "Hmm lets spend the day farming and meeting people and gathering on Multiple planets, seeing multiple "mobs in Multiple zone", and oh building your skills.. AND oo I will end up with some bank roll" after all of that to boot??? sign me up.

     


    This post was edited by Mortalim at November 2, 2017 5:17 PM PDT
    • 3 posts
    November 4, 2017 8:18 AM PDT

    I would like to see all levels crafting remain viable, even once end-game is reached. 

    For example, if there is a gear-wear system, where armor and weapons degrade as they are used, crafters should be able to repair that gear (not NPCs).  Eventually, the gear would become so worn that nobody could repair it back to full power, and it would have to be replaced.  Crafting professions could have skill points or abilities that enable them to repair gear closer to full power, or allow them to repair higher-quality gear, as they get more experienced.

    At end-game, crafters would be able to fully repair raid-quality gear if they have spent their points in the appropriate skills, and it while the gear would become worn-down as it's used, it could also be fully repaired without the permanent degradation, thanks to the crafter's skill.

    Crafters could even craft do-it-yourself repair kits for others to use, with less effectiveness, allowing people to keep their gear in working order even if an appropriate crafter isn't along on the adventure.

    • 21 posts
    November 4, 2017 5:51 PM PDT

    One thing I really enjoyed from my WoW expirence as a crafter, is that crafters were rewarded additional stats.

    For example: Blacksmiths could create belt buckles that could be socketed with gems crafted by Jewlcrafters for additional stats. Leather workers were able to enchant their bracers with +360 of a primary stat (Int, strenght, or agility). Enchanters could encaht each ring (2) with 180 of a stat which was the equalivant of the leather working enchant, and the additional socket blacksmiters got. Jewlcrafters were given a special gem that equaled the same stat bonus, alchemists were given a +360 bonus on there flasks (as well as an hour duration increase), Tailors were given leg enchants to cover this bonus. 

    Gathering professions also got buffs; Skining recieved 360 crit strike at max level, herbalism 360 haste. and mining 360 additional stamina. TBH the additional benefit from these professions were not as beneficial as having two primary crafting professions (unless you were a tank who went with the mining skill).

    The Perception System:

    I think pantheon's perception system could be tied into crafting as well. I think it could be used when gathering in specific envornment to find rare and exotic materials such as gems, plants, ore, fish... etc. It would be nice to see a pasive perception skill system that levels up as a player gathers in various areas. This system could also be tied to crafting professions and the player could eventually have a higher chance of crafting an upgraded item.

    *** A couple of side notes based on my expirence from WoW, TERA, ESO (and acouple of other games).

    1. I am all for allowing everyone to have secondary professions from wow these included: fishing, cooking, archaeology, and first aid. 

    2. I am also all for everyone having access to all gathering professions which incude: Minning, Herbalism, and Skinning, essence gathering (TERA)

    3. I think primary professions should be limited to 2 ( or max mastery in 2). Which I think has already been stated is the case. 

    4. I would enjoy seeing a system in place where the crafter has a chance to craft an impoved version of an item. I think crafting should imitate real life, and in real life there are opertunities to discover better ways of doing things. (exmaple a Blacksmither crafts a sword. The sword is a green item but upon crafting the black smiter refines his crafting ability and gets a blue item with increased stats or a possible on hit effect depending on the materials hes crafting with.) Final fantasy has a system that is based on a system that uses quality of items used to determine the quality of the final product. I think with the perception system being planed this might be a great way to extend it to the crafting system. 

    5. I really miss precious gems that were in EQ1. I can't remember if they were directly linked to crafting but I know certain classes required them for spells. For me precious gems add a fantasy quallity to the game they are placed in. Wow kind of did this when Jewlcrafting was introduced, however it still didn't have the same feel, weight, and significance that it held in Everquest. 

    6. Please don't limit resource gathering. TERA placed a daily resource cap in an attempt to prevent and curve gold farmers. Instead it felt more like a punishment to the whole crafting community, and after the restriction was in place I lost intrest in trying raise my crafting professions. 

    Final thought:

    However crafting is done; I would really like to see play a role endgame. In most games crafting falls off at max level, or each profession gets one or two items that quickly fall off at max leve only to be replacel. It would be nice to see crafting be impactful at all aspects of the, but specifically at max level.

     

    • 155 posts
    November 4, 2017 9:35 PM PDT

    If your going to model after other games.

     

    Take the loot system from LoTR  "PLEASE"

    Farming from Archage

    Dungeons from VanGaurd Saga of hero's along with the undead battle music. Diplomacy, Crafting if we are wishing here.

    • 14 posts
    November 10, 2017 7:59 PM PST

    I know this will be an unpopular presentation but I like the systems in EVE Online.  I enjoy knowing that all consumable items in the game are crafted by someone and that someone likely had to employ the labors of others--through gathering and/or crafting--to gain the components to make the item they created.  It builds a community of crafters that rely on each other because no one person could produce everything alone.  Even at max level in a specific craft type.  I like how raw materials must be refined into useable materials.  I like how the research mechanic both rewarded your time investment with the ability to produce a product and how it limited you from being the entire production chain for an end of line product.  I feel like crafting should hold to the same tenants as the PVE portion of the game.  To be a game that pushes people to rely on each other both in and out of the adventure.    

    • 866 posts
    November 11, 2017 12:44 PM PST

    aMindAmok said:

    I know this will be an unpopular presentation but I like the systems in EVE Online.  I enjoy knowing that all consumable items in the game are crafted by someone and that someone likely had to employ the labors of others--through gathering and/or crafting--to gain the components to make the item they created.  It builds a community of crafters that rely on each other because no one person could produce everything alone.  Even at max level in a specific craft type.  I like how raw materials must be refined into useable materials.  I like how the research mechanic both rewarded your time investment with the ability to produce a product and how it limited you from being the entire production chain for an end of line product.  I feel like crafting should hold to the same tenants as the PVE portion of the game.  To be a game that pushes people to rely on each other both in and out of the adventure.    

    I loved EVE's economy, but I don't really think they could take the system that far here and still have a strong adventuring game.  EVE worked because the economy drove the content, both PvE (mining, ratting) and more importantly PvP.  I think/hope we'll end up with something more like Vanguard, which still had a pretty strong crafting game.  If we could get to SWG-level or EVE-level that would be tremendous though.

    But I absolutely agree with you on tenets :)

    • 24 posts
    November 11, 2017 1:53 PM PST

    I use to log into Vanguard, even after years of not playing, just to craft.  When your system/minigame/rewards are this engaging you are doing it right.  This is coming from someone who dislikes crafting in nearly every MMO/RPG game. I have heard good things about crafting in SWG as well but have no personal experiences to speak for it. 

    With that said there is much to be desired in crafting so here is for hoping VR gets it right.  Some very key aspects that make crafting interesting.

    1. The fundemental act of crafting needs to be an interesting minigame.  Simply mashing buttons to react to events (EQ2), or throwing a bunch of mats into 'magic box of crafting' and clicking combine (EQ1) is not engaging.  I am partial to a turn-based activity so I can work through the process at my leisure.
    2. Interleave crafting into all other spheres of the game (this rings true for all spheres having a venn cross-over).  It does not have to be a necessity for it to entail reward. This could tie in to the perception system to increase your chances of X event being noticed.  Tie into combat if say you are an armorer/weapon smith you may have an increased chance to trigger opportunities for special attacks.  Faction opening up training, specialization opening up an easier route to gaining some factions, etc.
    3. Finding a healthy balance between useful and not overly powerful.  I think there are already plenty of opportunities here with gear modification and the climate system. 
    4. Mats being highly various and recipes discoverable.  Allow us to experiment to discover things.
    5. Emphasize point 1.  The crafting mechanics need to be engaging

    This post was edited by Dediadeis at November 11, 2017 1:57 PM PST
    • 42 posts
    November 11, 2017 3:28 PM PST

    I am not normally a craft person. I prefer being in groups and dungeons. But EQ2 opened my eyes and showed me it can be fun to.


    This post was edited by Tristar at November 11, 2017 3:29 PM PST
    • 71 posts
    November 12, 2017 1:10 AM PST

    Tristar said:

    I am not normally a craft person. I prefer being in groups and dungeons. But EQ2 opened my eyes and showed me it can be fun to.

     

    In EQ1, I wasn't into crafting as much. My main character took ever proffession and I got a couple of them to Grandmaster level before leaving for EQ2. EQ2 I loved crafting because you actually worked to make your items and could die if you failed enough times while trying to complete it. It was like a mini-game within the game itself (not something you put a b c in a box hit combine and RNG decided if you passed or failed). However EQ2, WoW and SWTOR (You wanted mutiple crafters of the same skill because they had artificial timers that could take 5 real hours to complete) went 1 crafting skill per character which I didn't like and it forced me to play more and more alts to get every crafting skill I would need to be efficient since I played alot of times when you couldn't find a crafter to make something you need or to keep costs down because the guild needed stuff made and never got re-embursed for making the items. I briefly tried Vanguard crafting during the early days but I only played the game for the 1 month and quit to continue focusing on my primary games at the time (Sorry Brad).

    • 26 posts
    December 18, 2017 3:28 PM PST

    Some crafting related notes I did not see here that i thought the mechanics added some value to the crafter from FFXI.

     

    1. The more you craft of an item or you have a chance to get a +1, which in some instances was the same item with better stats, and other times a new item better than the recipe, allowing better crafters a chance to sell useful items, and make a profit on the better items.  This also makes the crafter more valuable for someone wanting possibly a better item quality than one made by someone who does not specialize making those items.
    2. Days of the week in FFXI were elemental along with Moon Cycles, provided higher chances of success when either the moon and day elements correlated with the type of crafting you were doing.  IE. Bone crafting had a higher success rate on Windsday, on a Full or New moon around Noon or Midnight.
    3. Rare crafting items and recipes have been state in previous posts, but drop from bosses and mobs, and are hard to get.
    4. Also within the Auction Houses I would love to see done like they were in FFXI, with last 7 items sold, to whom and when.  This serves 2 main functions, one for sellers to know if an item will sell, for how much and when, letting us know the demand from history.  Whether to make 1 or 100 for market.  The second reason is to know if someone is just buying out all the items and jacking up the prices.  AH history imo allows for a stronger more fair economy, and allows crafters to better know when there is a demand for an item and how much.

     

    I would list other MMO crafting nuances but, I believe they were done so in previous posts and just wanted to highlight these features I did not see previously mentioned.

    I do also think crafting should have a chance of failure, as there needs to be a risk involved to make it more rewarding, and allow for more dedicated crafters to earn noteriety.

    Whether or not crafting should be a full time job or not I am still on the fence about, I remember EQ2 crafting, though I did not stick with the game long enough to know if it changed, but when it first came out crafting took just about as long to level as it did to level your character and was an active job.  This does have ites merits but I am still on the fence of how hardcore crafting should be, I could go either way in that respect.  That said reaching a master level of crafting should not be easy by any means, and should be limited to only the most dedicated to the trade.


    This post was edited by modesty at December 18, 2017 3:29 PM PST
    • 6 posts
    December 18, 2017 7:48 PM PST

    modesty said:

     

    Whether or not crafting should be a full time job or not I am still on the fence about, I remember EQ2 crafting, though I did not stick with the game long enough to know if it changed, but when it first came out crafting took just about as long to level as it did to level your character and was an active job. 

    EQ2 Crafting has been revised twice from the original implementation as far as I know. The major changes were the removal of subcomponents and crafter dependancy.

    I got sick of having to relearn how to craft but I don't miss subcomponents at all.


    This post was edited by dizzy at December 18, 2017 7:48 PM PST
    • 10 posts
    December 18, 2017 9:41 PM PST

    I love crafting and reading a really good discussion like this one gives me the chills. Well done 

    • 26 posts
    December 19, 2017 12:05 AM PST

    dizzy said:

    I got sick of having to relearn how to craft but I don't miss subcomponents at all.

    I havent played many MMOs that long enough to see how a subcomponent market looks like, but I would suspect it would become a market itself with middle men specializing in selling subcomponents in bulk.

    But I do agree multi tiered recipes, that exponentially add to the crafting process of one item can be draining.  So much so it stops being fun.

    I feel that 2 tiers is best, Ingredient refinement + Item Crafting. This is fine when it goes another step further.  But in systems where you would have to do this process multiple times to make one item then another and repeat till you get to the final tier, its just a waste of inventory space.


    This post was edited by modesty at December 19, 2017 12:05 AM PST
    • 114 posts
    December 19, 2017 8:30 AM PST

    I love interdependency and subcomponents.  I love having to have skilled narrow focus crafters and relationships  with other crafters.

    • 7 posts
    December 27, 2017 5:02 PM PST

    To keep my answer short and simple. Vanguard's Crafting system was by far the best in any MMO I have ever played but let's be real honest....the sorting of recipes and finding what ya needed was pure junk. If you could streamline the interface for it, it would be the ultimate crafting experience.

    As a side note: I consider resource gathering mutually exclusive to crafting and this is not a consideration when stating the above opinion.

    • 27 posts
    December 27, 2017 5:16 PM PST

    I can't really recall a single crafting system of any mmo that didn't seem grindy and repetitive.

    Click this resource, now find another one and do it again until you have X.

    Click a button (or a few buttons) to make this item.

    Result1: Failure -> You didn't succeed -> repeat from step 1

    Result2: Success -> You created your item, you have x% chance to skill up -> repeat from step 1

     

    Imho for a crafting system to be interesting, the crafted items need to be useful, and the process of crafting has to be fun and engaging.

    I'm not going to hope for "Blacksmithing Simulator 2018" or the like, so all I hope for is, that crafting can be a social activity. Gather resources with your friends, combine your crafting skills to make useful items (either items that have unique abilities, consumables or upgradeable).

    I like the idea of being able to craft side-grades, items that give specific resistances or other bonuses for specific situations.

     

    • 114 posts
    December 29, 2017 12:13 PM PST

    Best crafting system I ever saw is SWG, but I think it is not adapted to a game that is not completely based on a full player economy.

    I did not play Vanguard but looked some videos and sounds like a nice system.

    I kinda regret people mostly consider time must be the main resource to progress in a crafting system, I don't see the point in crafting tons and tons of items to gain xp if these items are not used, that's just useless grinding. I dream about a system in which the fact that crafted items are used makes the crafter gain xp, example : an alchemist crafts 10 potions of healing, he gets xp when the potions are used. Weapon crafter could gain xp if weapons are used to kill mobs, same for armor or jewelry crafters, cooks if there food is eaten, etc ... If the system allows you to be a master crafter whose items were mostly never used or just sold to NPCs, then it's a bad system.

    I do not believe in getting an universal system that works for every skill, alchemy system and armor craft systems could be different, and better 'should' be different, cause very often trying to make fit all trade skills in the same system makes them less accurate.

    For weapon craft for example, I would take inspiration from different systems, and among them the epic weapon system of LotRO. The craft of a sword would be the craft of a hilt and a blade, assembling them, and depending on the components used and the skill of the crafter, the crafted sword has no stats but of 'potential' to add stats and powers. In LotRO, stats and powers can be extracted from other weapons and injected to new ones, and that's great. Stats and powers could be extracted, crafted with different crafting skills, even dropped by bosses, and then injected to new weapons by a weapon crafter. With such a system, there would be far more useful work for crafters than in most games. And if we want all being coherent, all the weapons in the world should be built on the same model than the crafted ones, and could be dismantled, salvaged.

     


    This post was edited by Khendall at December 29, 2017 12:15 PM PST
    • 19 posts
    January 12, 2018 1:45 PM PST

    I see I am not alone in being a fan of the SWG crafting model ... I too loved it, seems everyone has basically noted the ins and outs of it so I'll just throw in my vote for that type of system, or a good rendition of it anyway

    • 1148 posts
    January 12, 2018 2:44 PM PST

    I didn't read the whole pages but my own point is : no game ever made me enjoy crafting despite leveling it in most games, like poisons in eq1, supply (i guess ?) In eq2 etc..

     

    In eq1 it was repetitive and costly to hell, I enjoyed farming poison because it made me discover some areas (like aviaks in TD)

    In eq2 it was overly long with too much dependance to quality of sub recipes.

    In wow it had pretty much no interest nor difficulty.

    In rift... i dont remember. Was there any ?

    In swtor it was so simple your companions were doing it for you. Wowlike withouth blocking your character.

    In wildstar it was tied to top much daily reputation quests.

    In gw2 it was extremely quick for gear but the system itself was easy as hell.

    In ffxiv its an infinite minigame time sink you will never catchup with gear tiers. 

     

    Overalm I just hate doing crap items in chain just to train and sell them to npc.

     

    • 5 posts
    January 13, 2018 11:40 AM PST

    A combination of Vanguard and A Tale in the Desert would make Pantheon the best crafting game of all time.

    • 288 posts
    January 13, 2018 1:09 PM PST

    Mortalim said:

    1- The crafted items NEED to be VIABLE in game upgrades. (not saying to completley replace or be better then say a High ENd Raid drop, but definitely something people would Seek out until they were doing that sort of content.

    2- Make items customizable from the stats of the item to the COLOR. (Nothing worse then seeing 10 warrios with ALL teh same armor AND the same COLOR.. let us be unique in our own way, its what makes getting armor and "dressing" your character up part of the RPG of an MMO RPG game.

    3- do NOT over simplify the "journey" to becoming a Master Crafter in a specific crafting profession. (it should not be easy, but it also should have a steady rewarding aspect as you get better, there are ENTIRE communities that play MMORPGs because they love nothing more than to socially interact with people and CRAFT/Create things)



    I love the idea of being able to customize the color of armor, but the materials needed to do this should be very rare imo. Perhaps a very difficult item to craft that comes from another profession.

    As far as 1 and 2, I was thinking it would be really cool to be able to "Break" PvE items for a chance to get one of the stats or functions from the item in the form of a gem, and maybe the stats of a crafted piece can be customized by using these gems in the creation process. Perhaps each crafted piece--depending on quality and level--has a certain number of points that can be filled, and each gem uses up a certain number of these points. For example Item A has 12 available points. You can use two 6-point gems when creating the item, or three 4-point gems.

    (Side note: I'm not saying all pieces should require the breaking of other items. You could still have the generic list of available items to make with pre-determined or randomized stats. This is just another option for item creation.)

    This would allow players to create some really cool unique items. For example, if you "Break" a fungi, you might get a negative stat gem, or you might get a Health Regeneration gem. Now, because it's such a powerful gem, it would need to use up a lot of points... But maybe you could use it to create a new leather or plate piece that doesn't have any negative stats, and maybe one or two stat bonuses.

    This would be similar to DAoC's system, but different in these ways:
    - DAoC Spellcrafters did not need to break items to get desired gems to put stats on items. Ingredients for gems were bought from vendors then created by the spellcrafter.
    - Breaking items allows for items to be removed from circulation.
    - These Gems would be used by the crafter in the actual process of creating an item rather than putting stats on an item after it is made, making the quality of a crafter's product significant, whereas in DAoC a Spellcrafter or player could pre-purchase a high-quality piece and add desired stats later.

    Just an idea I thought I would toss out there!

    • 33 posts
    February 8, 2018 12:56 PM PST

    Nephele said:

    EQ2:

    The good:  Interdependency between crafting professions (until that got nerfed).  Initial complication system would actually kill you if you messed up enough (though it was a little silly to see people die to a loom).
    The bad:  Complications were trivialized once you got to a certain point, and as long as you paid attention you could produce an A-grade item every time.  Interdependency got nerfed.  Itemization was terrible, lots of stuff you could make would never get used.  As the game got older, rares became more and more common to where you pretty much had to be using rares if you wanted to sell anything at all.

     

    Agree with your interpretation of the EQ2 crafting.  I liked the interdependency crafters had and the community it created amongst crafters.

     

    The reason they changed the interdependency of crafters was because people complained they could not level their tradeskill (which was true to a point, the cost of some mats was scary high).  Fixing the issue so crafters did not feel bottle necked while trying to increase their skill would be of utmost importance in keeping the interdependacy for higher quality items.

    • 81 posts
    February 9, 2018 6:45 AM PST

    What i like in a crafting system can be summed up in a few things : discovering the recipes, understanding how the craft works, needing the crafts, and using them on a daily basis.

    On that regard i like the system from divinity : original sin, using items two by two, discovering a recipe when it's valid, or with a few books hidden here and there for people who have missed them for too long. Trying random crafts to figure out what works and what doesn't is pretty fun. Crafting items two by two also means using one item on the other, and that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm having real fun thinking about cutting wood into a stick, then attaching an arrowhead on it. Simply because i understand how it works. It's much more fun than putting a, b, c, d, e, f, and gx100 items in a big cookpot, wait 5 seconds, and then magically get a Godslayer Axe of the Relentless +5 (or whatever) without understanding what just happened during the craft and telling myself "okay it's a hero, he must know what he's doing". That was my discovery and understanding part.

     

    Another point i have given is needing the recipe. I think making all the same recipes by just changing number values is a big waste of content, like :

    - basic health pot, heals 10 HP

    - medium health pot, heals 15HP

    - over average medium health pot, heals 16,5HP

    - improved over average medium health pot, heals 16,8 HP

    etc

    I don't think that this is a good way of making crafting recipes. Recipes should vary qualitatively, doing different things, and little in numerical values. Else being high level means using 10% of crafting recipes available, which is a huge waste of content for most players.

    I'll take an example i'm proficient with. Take trap crafting, like in Dragon Age 1 for example.

    You can make calltrops on low level, it slows down foes but rarely kills them.

    You can make a bear trap later on, completely stops the mob (so it's obviously a stronger effect and it looks more technical to make).

    Then you can make an explosive trap at high level, launching the mobs and often killing the small ones.(even better and more technical to craft)

    In this simple example, the 3 crafts are different, even if you can see a progression between them. All 3 traps are exciting. I'm pretty sure you will all agree this example is better than : "basic calltrops, medium calltrops, large calltrops". That's what i'm talking about. You can then imagine calltrops are AOE, bear trap is single target and explosive trap is expensive. Then you will be interested in crafting all the 3 traps, even in high levels. That is a more successful crafting design than just changing numbers. I could have given other examples with other items and other games.

     

    Then i jump to my last point : using crafting recipes often. In that regard, i consider consumables being a key to maintaining interest in crafting. If you craft your gear and only that, with no improvements or upkeep to make, after you have made it and helped your friends, you end up leaving your crafting skills behind, or in the best case seldom selling a sword here and there. On the other side, you will always need to make potions, grenades, traps, lures, scrolls, sharpening stones, etc because of their consumable nature. And in the end you keep interested in crafting, because you always have something to look for, creating an activity loop between gathering mats, crafting, and using stuff. That's what usually keeps me interested in crafting in high level.

     

    Cheers


    This post was edited by Gideon at February 9, 2018 6:46 AM PST
    • 501 posts
    February 9, 2018 8:30 AM PST

    I had multiple characters maxed out in various crafting skills in EQ.   I loved what I could make, but I hated the advancement system.  I think the dev team was subsidized by Logitech and chiropractors to wear out both mice and wrists.

    Rather than have to repeat a recipe with 8 components over and over to appease the RNG gods, I'd rather make the components harder to find and give the crafter a higher chance of improving their skill.

    Repetition is OK to a point, but not where it becomes mind-numbing and physically debilitating.

    • 91 posts
    February 12, 2018 11:03 AM PST

    Celandor said:Repetition is OK to a point, but not where it becomes mind-numbing and physically debilitating.

     

    My EQ tradeskilling induced carpal tunnel syndrome agrees with you.