kellindil said:Bazgrim said:
And aren't I correct in my understanding that an extending target window would require an add-on, as it would have to pull additional info from the client? (the names and health of the other monsters that are aggroed) since that wouldn't be otherwise accessible.
No, this would not require an add on. This is a UI element built into the game in EQ. If VR builds it into the UI no addons would be needed.
But what I'm asking is, if VR does not build it into the UI, would it not be possible to have, because it would then require a player-made add-on? Because as we know, there won't be add-ons in Pantheon.
That's correct, Bazgrim.
The way the Extended Target window works in EQ is by checking your hate list and displaying the information about any mob with a positive "hate state" to this specific UI piece. That is the default functionality, anyway.
The UI piece then allows various sorting methods to further manage things. You can also persistently track specific players as well, like when a player is assigned with the Main Tank flag, you can assign the top slot in your Extended Target window to track whatever player has the Main Tank flag. It's a very useful tool for consolidating numerous game functions into one easy interface.
However, if the data provided to the UI pieces isn't there (such as a hate list), then yeah, the functionality isn't really possible. Not legitimately, anyway.
Bonus Fun Fact: A lot of the UI pieces/features like Bandolier, Potion Belt, Click From Bags, Extended Target, and even the /autofire command were added to reduce reliance on MQ2 because MQ2 facilitated all of these actions. Whether or not that's particularly relevant is up to debate, but I thought it was worth saying.
Well yes, but it didn't seem like you meant it that way. Maybe the wording was throwing me off.
Any changes to the UI that tries to add anything that didn't already exist would be impossible of course. Just as you said.
As for Liav's Fun Fact, This is very true. MQ2 added all of these elements that became QOL imporvements later on. That said I feel like some of them shouldn't have been added. Like clicking from the bag and bandolier, but thats just my opinion. /autofire hits me as a basic command that should have been there from day 1, but archery was a complete after thought in Vanilla EQ it feels. It seems a logical extension of autoattack. A Potion belt makes sense, as its something one might actually carry on a belt. But clicking from bag? I really think items should be equiped to click.
But that is getting a smidge off topic.
Liav said:That's correct, Bazgrim.
The way the Extended Target window works in EQ is by checking your hate list and displaying the information about any mob with a positive "hate state" to this specific UI piece. That is the default functionality, anyway.
The UI piece then allows various sorting methods to further manage things. You can also persistently track specific players as well, like when a player is assigned with the Main Tank flag, you can assign the top slot in your Extended Target window to track whatever player has the Main Tank flag. It's a very useful tool for consolidating numerous game functions into one easy interface.
However, if the data provided to the UI pieces isn't there (such as a hate list), then yeah, the functionality isn't really possible. Not legitimately, anyway.
Bonus Fun Fact: A lot of the UI pieces/features like Bandolier, Potion Belt, Click From Bags, Extended Target, and even the /autofire command were added to reduce reliance on MQ2 because MQ2 facilitated all of these actions. Whether or not that's particularly relevant is up to debate, but I thought it was worth saying.
Right, that's what I thought. Thanks.
Offensive and defensive targets, and a target of target for each would be the most I'd care to see. Beyond that just gets into the realm of making things easier that you should be able to identify by paying attention or by communication. I wouldn't care to see markers on mobs either.
There also shouldn't be a public hate list. There are some elements that should be up to players to pay attention and use judgement to ascertain. As a general rule, I don't think players should be given a window into the internal workings of things. It's something they should learn from experience and shared experience.
Liav said:Altering the parameters of a fight to increase challenge and loot outcome is essentially what hardmode is in other MMOs. I didn't twist your words. I don't really understand how you could've gotten offended by my post, it was pretty straightforward.
Discussing moderator action is also not allowed on these forums, as I've found out myself.
The guidelines you are referring to specifically state:
No Backseat Moderating - Let Visionary Realms staff do the moderating. Backseat moderating is when people who are not moderators try to enforce the forum rules. If you see a person breaking the rules, take advantage of the Report button and then simply ignore the offensive post(s) or thread.
and
Repeat Offenders - Should you be pointed to the rules, and continue to argue with ANY member of our Management/Moderating team about the fairness of our rules, you may be banned. We do not have to give any warnings. When we do take the time to give a warning, please learn from it. Don't poke, prod and push to see what the limits are as you will find out pretty quickly and in most cases the decision will not be reversed.
So discussing rules or moderator actions in the manner that Portalgun did is fine and they are correct, I shouldn't have to jump in and give as many warnings as I have been lately, it is annoying for both you folks and me. If the post was taken off topic to disagree with moderating actions or discuss alternatives/opinions on my actions on it I would react accordingly with a mod edit and warning.
To me it depends on how the enchanter is designed. If it's like EQ where you can mez 10-12 mobs and have AOE mez, it doesnt really matter if there is an advanced targeting window. But if they are like VG, where you had only 2 mezzes and no AOE, it was needed. There were 2 fights in particular that you had between 4 and 5 mobs spawn and sometimes you had little more then a second or 2 to find the dangerous one and mez it. 1 fight they were all on top of one another, and the other they could be anywhere around you. There were a few fights that were 360 degrees, while you are moving from A to B.
It also helps people in raids in that have older comps with lag. I played VG with all my settings turned down. If you are lagging, the targetting window is the only way to find the mob sometimes.
I don't like the idea of a targeting window, you would spend a lot of your time looking at it instead of the actual game.
jpedrote said:I don't like the idea of a targeting window, you would spend a lot of your time looking at it instead of the actual game.
Then how do you cast your spells? Do you want an action type casting system? Please explain to me what it is you DO want as opposed to what you DONT want
Sevens said:jpedrote said:I don't like the idea of a targeting window, you would spend a lot of your time looking at it instead of the actual game.
Then how do you cast your spells? Do you want an action type casting system? Please explain to me what it is you DO want as opposed to what you DONT want
I hope he means an extended target window. If that's the case, I actually agree. I'm fine with an offensive target, and defensive target. Once you have an extended target window, then you can just stare at the window and if you see a new target added on to the list, that means you got an add. I'd much rather have to keep my eyes open and looking at my surroundings to physically SEE an add coming, rather than just have it appear on a list on the side of my screen
Sevens said:jpedrote said:I don't like the idea of a targeting window, you would spend a lot of your time looking at it instead of the actual game.
Then how do you cast your spells? Do you want an action type casting system? Please explain to me what it is you DO want as opposed to what you DONT want
Sorry, I was reffering to an extended targeting window, where it shows all the mobs that you're in battle with, by not having this window you would be required to loook for the mob and the screen, click and cast a spell that's what i was refering to, but if you had an extended targeting windows you would just stare at the window for a lot of the time and i don't think that's good.
Quintra said:Sevens said:jpedrote said:I don't like the idea of a targeting window, you would spend a lot of your time looking at it instead of the actual game.
Then how do you cast your spells? Do you want an action type casting system? Please explain to me what it is you DO want as opposed to what you DONT want
I hope he means an extended target window. If that's the case, I actually agree. I'm fine with an offensive target, and defensive target. Once you have an extended target window, then you can just stare at the window and if you see a new target added on to the list, that means you got an add. I'd much rather have to keep my eyes open and looking at my surroundings to physically SEE an add coming, rather than just have it appear on a list on the side of my screen
yep I was referring to the extended targeting window, sorry.
Instead of symbols, numbers, etc. for marking raid targets, how about something like Faerie Fire? Make it an actual castable spell available to perhaps all int casters. It would simply illuminate the target in a colored aura to make it easier to identify. I'm sure many if not most of you have at least dabbled in D&D so I'm sure you know how it works there.
This could even be expanded on. I know there is nothing definitive on how spells lines will work, or if there will be spells lines or if spells simply gain power as you level etc., but a low level Faerie Fire could simply mark the target in a harmless, colorful aura, while higher level versions of Faerie Fire could provide some kind of advantage to the party (increased chance to hit perhaps) or disadvantage to the enemy (maybe they are confused or distracted by the glowing fire surrounding them). Or maybe each int caster has a slightly different version or power of the spell.
In D&D, Faerie Fire could also be different colors, I'm not sure how that could be implemented in Pantheon without having a different spell for each color, which would be terrible if we had limited spells slots. Perhaps the color is random, and each time you cast it on a different target, it applies a different color. I dunno, this is just a rough idea to make raid targeting and enemy management more immersive. I have always found floating stars and hearths silly.
Edited for spelling :(
I think this might stem from the current batch of games that make DPS'ers feel like if they are not casting on the next mob before the last one hits the ground they will loose .02% dps. I want DPS meters/parsers to die a slow death in a fire while drowning in battery acid. It is time support classes get a day in the sun.
I look forward to gaming with people who can think for themselves. Hopefully this game fosters that play style.
