No mounts !! Give Bards their hay day.... We deserve it....... That was pretty off topic of the OP sorry
Deserve**** That just sounds like a poor choice of word
Megaera said:I'm fine with titles and names and stuff....but no mounts ever in pantheon please and thank you
There will be mounts as someone else stated, I hope that is right at least. The only mounts I hope aren't in the game and I dare say will be very unlikely to be are flying mounts, at least not player owned. Possible there may be NPC run flying mounts for some form of quick travel, and if there are I'm sure they will be few and far between.
From my brief time in Vanguard I remember Wyvern mounts, but I think they were limited duration? Or only point to point?
Vaultarn said:Megaera said:I'm fine with titles and names and stuff....but no mounts ever in pantheon please and thank you
There will be mounts as someone else stated, I hope that is right at least. The only mounts I hope aren't in the game and I dare say will be very unlikely to be are flying mounts, at least not player owned. Possible there may be NPC run flying mounts for some form of quick travel, and if there are I'm sure they will be few and far between.
From my brief time in Vanguard I remember Wyvern mounts, but I think they were limited duration? Or only point to point?
Wish is granted! Brad said a big NO to flying mounts!
I think titles are great, but I'm meh on mounts. I used to like them, worked hard to get a few, but they tend to break immersion when everyone is on them all the freaking time. I keep them turned off in EQ2, so while everyone has one and we all get the benefits, I just don't see them unless they're flying.
I think you have to understand that the anxiety around mounts is based mainly on a few things:
Amsai is like me, from the world of FFXI wherein mounts played a comparatively minimal role (until this year) and that was fine for basically everyone because there was a perfectly reasonable set of teleports, airships and ferries in place.
To be on topic, I don't care so much about one-time events, those are cool. I would prefer rewards of any nature to never be truly unobtainable, perhaps only extremely unlikely to be acquired outside of the event. I think one-time rewards are also fundamentally at odds with a Progeny system, so I would prefer they stick to their features instead of adding arbitrary exclusivity.
The topic of one-time events has come up many times before. Look at it like this: You're looking for a game to play so you check reviews and whatnot and from various descriptions you read about all these amazing things the game offers, magical items beyond cound, incredible spells, etc. You get really excited so you buy the game, pay for the subscription and log in...only to find out not that much later all the really cool stuff you read about you can't ever experience because it was one-time content. That super-mega-badass dragon? Permadead...killed 2 years ago. The creepiest dungeon ever devised? Zone deleted as it was part of a single event that happened 6 months ago. How many times coming up against that will it take for you to quit?
There is a huge difference between content you cannot reach because you do not put in the appropriate level of effort to reach it and content you'll never see because it was one-time only and happened when you were here...yet you pay the same subscription price.
I'm not against the idea of special titles given or named gear/pet/mount/etc... given, but not a one time deal. Maybe a special name to those who are the first to achieve something of worth to give special credit to those who earned it, but the item/mount, etc... stat wise should remain the same for anyone who can get through the rigors of quest lines and/or boss kills to obtain that reward.
It should not be a one time deal or event. If it is a very special event... say the "Drink Green Grog Day", then make it a once a year event to increase rarity, but never a one time event.
Vandraad said:The topic of one-time events has come up many times before. Look at it like this: You're looking for a game to play so you check reviews and whatnot and from various descriptions you read about all these amazing things the game offers, magical items beyond cound, incredible spells, etc. You get really excited so you buy the game, pay for the subscription and log in...only to find out not that much later all the really cool stuff you read about you can't ever experience because it was one-time content. That super-mega-badass dragon? Permadead...killed 2 years ago. The creepiest dungeon ever devised? Zone deleted as it was part of a single event that happened 6 months ago. How many times coming up against that will it take for you to quit?
There is a huge difference between content you cannot reach because you do not put in the appropriate level of effort to reach it and content you'll never see because it was one-time only and happened when you were here...yet you pay the same subscription price.
That's a rather extreme case, no? It would be a stretch to imagine a review talking about all kinds of one-time event things and not mention it, let alone exclusively be talking about it. I'd imagine in a persons budding interest in the game they would check out the main site and see what it is about. I think there would be a MUCH bigger problem if all the cool content was one time event stuff. When you pay the subscription for the game you are essentially paying for all the regular content, everything else is just a bonus that you may or may not miss.
As an example, say you pay for a season pass to Disneyland and they have a one day special Star Wars event and hand out some cool swag that you miss because you either didn't know or were otherwise unable to attend. Would you get upset? You paid just as much as anyone else after all, you deserve anything anyone else can get.
Sometimes you make it to an event, take part, have a great time. Sometimes you don't. There is always the next one!
As much as I loathe WoW, I think that some of their pre-expansion events have been generally good ideas and are by definition one-time only. Like most things in modern MMOs, however, I believe they over reward the player with glitter in the form of mounts/titles/pets which just clogs up the high fantasy world with garbage. I think it would be worth crafting such events and incentivizing participating in them with existing items as much as possible, or allowing for an alternative method of obtaining rewards from it even if its more difficult.
Iksar said:Vandraad said:The topic of one-time events has come up many times before. Look at it like this: You're looking for a game to play so you check reviews and whatnot and from various descriptions you read about all these amazing things the game offers, magical items beyond cound, incredible spells, etc. You get really excited so you buy the game, pay for the subscription and log in...only to find out not that much later all the really cool stuff you read about you can't ever experience because it was one-time content. That super-mega-badass dragon? Permadead...killed 2 years ago. The creepiest dungeon ever devised? Zone deleted as it was part of a single event that happened 6 months ago. How many times coming up against that will it take for you to quit?
There is a huge difference between content you cannot reach because you do not put in the appropriate level of effort to reach it and content you'll never see because it was one-time only and happened when you were here...yet you pay the same subscription price.
That's a rather extreme case, no? It would be a stretch to imagine a review talking about all kinds of one-time event things and not mention it, let alone exclusively be talking about it. I'd imagine in a persons budding interest in the game they would check out the main site and see what it is about. I think there would be a MUCH bigger problem if all the cool content was one time event stuff. When you pay the subscription for the game you are essentially paying for all the regular content, everything else is just a bonus that you may or may not miss.
As an example, say you pay for a season pass to Disneyland and they have a one day special Star Wars event and hand out some cool swag that you miss because you either didn't know or were otherwise unable to attend. Would you get upset? You paid just as much as anyone else after all, you deserve anything anyone else can get.
Sometimes you make it to an event, take part, have a great time. Sometimes you don't. There is always the next one!
+1. Preach it brother!
Vandraad I'm talking about a once per year sort of event like the release of a new raid zone or something. I'm not talking about it being a very regular thing. Also the reason you pointed out about everyone paying the same subscription is a perfect reason why modern day mmo's got easier and easier, handing out epics willy nilly to everyone eventually year after year. Casual players complained and cried that they deserve all these cool hard to obtain things because they paid a monthly fee aswell. I know a lot of people might disagree with what i'm about to say but devs need to stop listening to every request made by players because sometimes players don't even know half the time what their whining and moaning can cause to a games lifespan and modern mmo's in the past decade are a prime example of this.
Plus the rewards i'm talking about for being one of the first to do it are purely cosmetic. They are not gaining anything that gives them advantages. Everyone who eventually completes it still gets a nice epic weapon but only miss out on a cosmetic title that only the first few got.
Over the past few weeks, I've realized that I'm more of a completionist than I ever thought I was. My husband and I are messing about in Grim Dawn (think Diablo II with a plot) for a change of pace, and it completely messes with my chi if we don't do everything in order or completely uncover one part of a zone before we go on to the next one.
That said, I wouldn't mind at all if there was a special something that was non-game-influencing (a title, a weapon skin, ect.) to show that you participated in a one-time event in Pantheon -- even if that means I don't get to complete a set if I didn't/couldn't participate. I see it like a military medal or a souvenir from a concert tour only available at a live show. It's not only something you can show off as a source of pride, but also something that can be used to share memories of "that one day ..." Then you have the social aspect of meeting someone who you don't know who also participated in the event: "Wow you were there 'that one day ...' I didn't last but three minutes! It was insane!" "Wow, yeah, I was on the other side of the zone, and there was an uber guild helping everyone out!"
Think about it this way: As a completionist, I want to complete the core part of the game and collect everything that's a part of it. However, if there's a special event that I miss, I wouldn't mind because it's not part of the core game. I also wouldn't want a title or an item to be given to me if I didn't participate. Why would I want something I didn't earn?
I am not against one time events as long as they last long enough for everyone to complete or attempt to complete. I am completely against the idea of having to farm items with your entire guild for some server event only to have just one person be able to ever get the reward.
People go away and vacation and sometimes needs to take extended breaks from games such as people in the military.
I go on vacation for a month once a year. Would be ridiculous to come back and not be able to get a one time reward because it was a 2 week event that will never happen again.
I was online when the undead rose up in Qeynos Hills. A few people that were logged on in Qeynos Hills started telling everyone they could (friends, guildmates) that something was going on in Qeynos Hills and there were undead all over the place - all different levels.
There was a rush to get over there and I was one of the ones that rushed over there. A relatively low-level participant. But the undead were all over and they just kept coming. Respawns after respawns. The higher level players were battling higher level stuff - not sure what it was since it was well in and behind the lower level stuff that I had to deal with. I believe the zone eventually crashed because of the number of players that were showing up to participate. This was early on on the Bertoxxulous server.
It was unannounced. It just happened. People died (I don't know if the experience loss penalty was still there or not but the corpse run was still there - since I died a couple times - there was also a lot of lag). I believe the fact that I don't even remember if there was experience loss at time of death or not pretty much speaks to the fact that I did not care. Fighting the hordes of the undead was so much fun. I kept wanting to participate in another event like that. It never happened. Although I did hear tales of an orc uprising in Greater Faydark close to Crushbone and Kelethin. Never been confirmed, though but from the tales that were told it also sounded to be like a ton of fun!
If there are any developers online who were a part of that event I sure would like to hear about your involvement and experience and what you felt about it. I absolutely loved it and it is one of the great memories I have of the game (EQ).
I don't recall any reward ever being given out. I also don't remember any negative word being said about the experience. I would very much love to see these types of events that simply pop up and just start to happen. I don't need to see any reward and I don't need to see any reduction in death penalty. Those that want to participate will flock to the event regardless of reward or death penalty - just as it should be. Those that don't want to participate can flee (just as it should be).
I think one time limited events are great, so long as the items/mounts are cosmetic. And once they're gone they should be gone - reward the people that played it. Time expiring events can be a great way to add prestege without disrupting balance.
One-time events + GM events are great ideas, I think they add a lot to an MMO experience and make it feel both alive and that the devs are actively involved. Hearing about crazy one-time events would be a big draw for me personally to a game, and yeah, sure, it sucks that I might have missed the previous ones, the but the idea is that new ones occur every once in a while, from smaller to larger. That's exciting and something to look forward to.
I think mounts are a great idea if done properly. No flying mounts and realistic ground mounts, and they should be prohibitively expensive, i.e. a player won't be getting mounts until much higher levels. This keeps the usefulness of player speed buffs relevant, especially if mounts are restricted to outdoors only, not within cities, and not within dungeons.
One time/Limited Time events are a really good idea IMO. Most MMO's use them nowadays and it's a great way to allow players to jump into varied content and earn exclusive rewards. I for one love to participate in most events that pop-up in any of the current games I'm playing.
As for the whole Mount situation, here's my two cents:
Since there's only going to be ground based mounts, I don't see the issue with having them. I've been playing ESO a lot the past little while and their Mount/Riding system is actually decently well done. Here's how it works:
Basically when a mount is acquired it has no bonuses to movement speed initially. The player must visit a stable and invest gold into their Riding skill for that mount:
Every 20 hours, you may increase one "Riding Skill" for a cost of 250 gold.
With a system like this it's entirely up to the player whether they want to invest time into a mount or run around. Yes, having a mount and investing the time is totally worth it IMO as you can eventually increase you mounts speed up to a maximum of 50% faster than regular movement. The maximum amount of times you can 'upgrade' or 'invest' in your mount is 50 times. So you can either focus on 1 discipline or split your focus as you choose.
Something like this might be more along the lines of a good compromise so that those that want mounts can still have them, but need to actually invest in them to make them inherently more beneficial than just running around.
There are flaws to the above system as each mount has it's own Riding skill so it's not universal. This means, if I suddenly get a new and better looking mount I have to start over from square 1.
All in all I think as long as Mounts are viewed as something that you can choose to invest your time in, they shouldn't be an issue.
If there are classes such as Bard who can boost movement speed and be AS beneficial or as close to a mount via support buffs or enchantments, then I honestly don't see a problem with having mounts in Pantheon. I'm sure VR will do us justice and think of something quite balanced for the mount system.
muscoby said:I was online when the undead rose up in Qeynos Hills. A few people that were logged on in Qeynos Hills started telling everyone they could (friends, guildmates) that something was going on in Qeynos Hills and there were undead all over the place - all different levels.
If there are any developers online who were a part of that event I sure would like to hear about your involvement and experience and what you felt about it. I absolutely loved it and it is one of the great memories I have of the game (EQ).
I remember this even very well, it was the first GM event I saw when I started EQ, it happened not long after I started playing and I was around level 10. It was such an amazing thing to see and participate in, a really cool pop-up GM event. I think an item or two was handed out at the end of it but it's hard to recall. There were many more over the years but I'll never forget that fateful day when the undead rose up in Qeynos Hills.
Even the non-GM events were pretty amazing to see from the community. I remember the monk protest about feign death changes with tons of monks feigning at the Freeport gate before a giant GM Gnome showed up.
Sicario said:One-time events + GM events are great ideas, I think they add a lot to an MMO experience and make it feel both alive and that the devs are actively involved. Hearing about crazy one-time events would be a big draw for me personally to a game, and yeah, sure, it sucks that I might have missed the previous ones, the but the idea is that new ones occur every once in a while, from smaller to larger. That's exciting and something to look forward to.
I think mounts are a great idea if done properly. No flying mounts and realistic ground mounts, and they should be prohibitively expensive, i.e. a player won't be getting mounts until much higher levels. This keeps the usefulness of player speed buffs relevant, especially if mounts are restricted to outdoors only, not within cities, and not within dungeons.
There's the key for those who are worried about having items or titles in game that only one person may ever get. You might not have gotten the first one, but you always have that chance of getting the next one, and that's exciting. I'd much rather have titles be rare than have it where everyone has 50 titles to choose from.
That ESO mount system sounds cool, but I'd still rather not have mounts like that in PRF.
EDIT: LOL. Nice SS Iksar.
I wholeheartedly disagree with exclusive content. This includes server firsts and exclusive skins, gear or mounts. I find that it promotes a rush to end-game, elitism and toxic communities. I can live perfectly with achievements and titles, as long as they can be obtained by any player at their own leisure. The only segregating factor would be the ability to clear specific game content, e.g. successfully complete a raid encounter.
As for in-game events, I'm all for them. But again, I wouldn't really like to see them tied to exclusive rewards. Even though I intend to be here from the get-go and thus have the opportunity to participate in all events, I can imagine for someone who starts later, seeing something cool on another player and being told "sorry, you can't get it anymore, you should have been here then" would be incredibly frustrating.
I understand people who say not everyone should be able to obtain all titles or gear or mounts. But I respectfully disagree. My view is that I don't get anything out of being the only person in the game sporting a given title, but the possibility of such exclusive rewards takes away from the other players' game.
[EDIT] This is off-topic, but the above posts on ESO's mount system are considerably off the mark and I hope Pantheon never goes anywhere near it. While at launch mounts did have their own speed, carrying capacity and stamina stats, this was changed a long time ago so that each character you create has each of those stats as "riding skills". They all start at 0 and can be trained only once per day, so right there you were at a disadvantage compared to the "mount stats" system because with mount stats you could choose from different types of horses which had their own initial stats, e.g. a horse that start at 25 speed, etc. With the new system it takes about 6 months to train each new character to maximum riding skills. While stamina and carrying capacity could be easily overlooked, mount speed was essential for competitive trial runs because there were long sections that could be crossed on mount to shave a considerable amount of time off your run, so that was 60 days to get it to max, versus around 30 under the initial system if you bought a speed horse. Finally, all of this could be conveniently bypassed by perusing the crown store "riding lessons". Fun fact: it was calculated at the time that it would cost over $100 to max your riding skills on crown store riding lessons alone. This is a huge sell-out to whales and IMHO unacceptable. Paying to max a character's riding skill right upon character creation versus training 1 skill per day for 6 months is about as clear an example as I could find of why microtransactions should die in a fire.
Amsai said:Dont have a problem with the overall concept. Not a fan of mounts or pets in general so I wouldnt want it to focus on these type things only. I know mounts will be in the game but I also dont want to see 671 different mounts. I seriously think a handful will work just fine.
I'll be that one person who's always late to the dungeon because they refuse to use mounts.
Iksar said:muscoby said:I was online when the undead rose up in Qeynos Hills. A few people that were logged on in Qeynos Hills started telling everyone they could (friends, guildmates) that something was going on in Qeynos Hills and there were undead all over the place - all different levels.
If there are any developers online who were a part of that event I sure would like to hear about your involvement and experience and what you felt about it. I absolutely loved it and it is one of the great memories I have of the game (EQ).
I remember this even very well, it was the first GM event I saw when I started EQ, it happened not long after I started playing and I was around level 10. It was such an amazing thing to see and participate in, a really cool pop-up GM event. I think an item or two was handed out at the end of it but it's hard to recall. There were many more over the years but I'll never forget that fateful day when the undead rose up in Qeynos Hills.
Even the non-GM events were pretty amazing to see from the community. I remember the monk protest about feign death changes with tons of monks feigning at the Freeport gate before a giant GM Gnome showed up.
Oh my god, I would have loved to witness that. Based on the guild tag, that looks like Smed himself? Can't wait to lay eyes on a GM in Pantheon and see what events they have in store.
Draulius said:Amsai said:Dont have a problem with the overall concept. Not a fan of mounts or pets in general so I wouldnt want it to focus on these type things only. I know mounts will be in the game but I also dont want to see 671 different mounts. I seriously think a handful will work just fine.
I'll be that one person who's always late to the dungeon because they refuse to use mounts.
Can you please give a good explanation why? I'm sincerely trying to understand why so many people think mounts are the devil. And I don't mean mounts in WoW or other games that did them poorly by having too many of them, making them too easy to acquire, OP speed/flying, and ridiculous appearances. I'm talking about the logic for having ZERO mounts in the game regardless. There's gotta be a better middle ground in between the two extremes, which it seems like VR is striving for in Pantheon.
There are other threads about mounts - I have opinions but I will stick to the topic of exclusive mounts.
By itelf I see nothing wrong with having a horse with green barding that is only available at the spring festival (to make something up almost at random). What I fear is the slippery slope to having more and more types of mounts and, Gods protect us all, exotic mounts.
To me the world looks far better if almost all people are riding normal horses. Perhaps with one or two types of fancier or larger horses available at high level or for special accomplisments (killing boss type accomplisments not finding 8 eggs in 5 minutes faire type accomplishments). Just as you could tell the difference visually between a knight's warhorse and a squire's horse.
What I consider truly awful are the exotics that games with microtransactions rely so heavily on selling. Pandas, squirrels, parakeets, wolves, tigers, the list is endless.
There is room for exotics under very limited circumstances IMO. If you have a jungle with elephants a mahout riding an elephant isn't immersion breaking for example. But in general exotics break immersion and are jarring.