Wellspring said:Bringing Surnames into the equation, seeing as how on character creation you will be creating both a first and last name. Do you think players should be allowed to change their surname?
Since Aradune has stated that the two together uniquely identify you, I would hope not.
Beefcake said:Wellspring said:Bringing Surnames into the equation, seeing as how on character creation you will be creating both a first and last name. Do you think players should be allowed to change their surname?
Since Aradune has stated that the two together uniquely identify you, I would hope not.
Kilsin also said that having both at creation is only how it currently is on their internal dev server. Of all the things not set in stone, this is probably the least set in stone when it comes to launch lol. I see literally 0 reason to worry about this in particular :)
In response to the name change comment. My answer would be no, not even for the game dev to make more money. I think it's generally in bad form to make this request. The majority of players wanting to do such are generally looking for a way to erase their poor behavior and wanting a clean slate to frolic around the same turf hoping not to be recognized. If someone made a poor naming choice at level 1 too bad, you picked it now you gotta live with it just like your mammy and pappy named you in real life. I used the random name generator in EQ1. My name was Oagagbuk, friends called me Oaggie and it became a term of endearment for me, I didn't whine like a little baby about it.
I think a name should stick with you. Names are important and tend to be one of the most important things we remember about people in real life. I don't see why this should be different in Pantheon, since we are aiming to play a very socially focused game. That said, I also feel that if a GM thinks someone has a solid, important reason to change a name that it should be permitted at their discretion. There are situations where a name change might be needed, but they shouldn't just happen because they are wanted. This is a life where you actually get to name yourself. Choose your name with care.
With that said, I have a love / hate thing with first and last name naming systems. On one hand they allow for great names to get used by multiple people, which avoids crap like Katryn94545 or something. (*groan*) On the other hand, if my bf comes in as Arogrim Veneron and I come in as Katryn Rosemir it makes it far harder for the characters to (hypothetically) get married. It's not the end of the world, but it is a thought.
I would consider taking this even a step further. When you make your first character on a server you set a surname and a first name. All your other characters on that server share that surname and none can be changed. If you want a different surname on that server then all your characters need to be deleted in order to change it. That way a player really is held accountable.
The only real worry I have about this though is targeted harassment, either in a "ooh you’re a Girl!!" and/or the "I'm going to pee in your Wheaties" variety. If there is an active moderation team, even if its VR trained volunteers, this should be handle able. Only in the case of repeated harassment can a GM change your character name.
I come at this from a slightly different slant than many others. Unlike modern games which encourage an attitude of being anything you want to be as any race or class and you can always switch on a whim; I am yearning for a return of games where each action has concequences. This includes initially on Day1 when you roll your very first character. Everything should be deliberate; choose your race for a good reason, choose your class for a good reason, choose your height and name for a good reason. Be stuck with the consequences of your choices or reroll.
In very old games, a person had to reroll for sometimes hours on end to get the ideal stats they wanted before they ever took that first step into the world. I am unsure if there is any choice at character creation to assign spare stat points in Pantheon but if there is, that is also a consequence. Know what you want to do then do it and live with it.
I am not a fan of name changes in general because it was your intentional action that caused it to happen way before any reputation was earned.
Server transfers are actually a bit more hazy for me. I will be here day 1 of launch but friends may join up 6 months later while i am parked on a full server. I am not sure there is a "best" answer in this regards.
Generally name changes seem like a poor idea for the reasons given, and I doubt that they would be that big a money-maker. But I say this purely from ignorance maybe more people pay for them than I realize.
I would make one exception - changes on a roleplaying server within a month after character creation. The time limit means this cannot be too badly abused (remember that someone can always just delete a fairly new character and start over with a new name). People are very likely to learn more about the game and the lore and regret their original name and this matters a lot more when you roleplay - or people may not plan on roleplaying or even not notice it is a roleplaying server (yes this happens a LOT although I have trouble understanding it - reading, the lost art).
Pantheon is aimed at a return to 'truly social MMOs' (c.f. : Brad, 'Pantheon Tenets' and 'The Pantheon Difference').
From this perspective, your reputation is meant to matter.
To that end, name changing is problematic in that it serves to reduce visibility of your reputation. While it is true that there could be many ways to link back to previous names - perhaps even with a visual sign of this change above the character name ... all this requires work on the DEvs side, not to mention that it still serves to marginally reduce the visibility of the person's reputation.
1. 'Want' for name change for reasons of 'picked the wrong name'.
It will be incumbent on VR to ensure new players realise that their choice of name matters - in the same way choice of class and race matter! These, and every other choice they make in the game, will affect their character in a profound way. There has been no indication from VR that characters may be able to make ad-hoc name changes when it suits them.
2. 'Need' for name change for reasons of a personal or singular nature.
This kind of change would be the exception, rather than the rule. They have already been mentioned (cite: mentioned in a few obscure threads - you are welcome to find them hehe) as some of the very few reasons a name change would be sanctioned by VR, and would be considered on an individual basis. These may include sex change, marriage or other singlular instances. I have found little to add beyond this, since (obviously) the DEVs are busy building a world and have only made detailed responses to a few (relatively) narrow aspects of the game to date - mainly those put out to the public as they are developed sufficiently.
Suggestions of note:
1. RP Servers
I do like the idea for characters created on an RP Realm to have the opportunity to change their name (perhaps once) within a relatively short period (eg 48 hours play time). This could be instituted using the 'Realm Rules Set' methods VR have talked about (where each server could have Realm-specific rulesets). This is a form of change that would not affect other servers, and could certainly be flagged in their 'Character Background' for full transparency if that was felt necessary. With a limited time of the name change, it is also unlikely to be abused to avoid reputation since they will have had little time to build a reputation of note. In any event - these changes could require a GM to sanction them as a 'check'.
2. Server Transfers
If server transfers are allowed at all, there should certainly be monitoring of them by GMs to ensure requirements are met. Moving between 'like' rulesets could be possible, but moving between different ones should only be possible in one direction. Eg from PvP to PvE might be allowed, but not PvE to PvP. For reputations to matter - server changes should certainly meet the kind of retrictions Brad et al have talked about - namely 'arriving without any money or gear'.
All in all, I think it is worth remembering that discussions such as this should be aiming to add to the possible ideas for the DEVs to consider, come the time for them to discuss this internally. To that end I hope that our focus can be on analysing how these ideas can function to further the 'Pantheon Tenets' and 'Pantheon Difference', rather than merely propose unsupported points.
Evoras, thinks there may be mileage in 'Master' pets having unique names and lineages!
I'm having a related quandary...
I'm going to be making Pantheon vids in YouTube and channel identity is important. The avatar name doesn't *have* to be related to the channel name, but it really helps.
I really hate it, though, when people have non-role-playing names in the game, if it's too obvious and jarring.
What do people think of having "Disposalist" as the last name of all my characters and the first name varying alt-to-alt, so I might have a rogue called Evilyn Disposalist. I'm thinking, RP-wise, Disposalist can be my old family 'profession' if you will, but doesn't *have* to relate to any current trait (it's not like everyone called Smith wields a hammer for a living, eh?).
Would be interested what people think...
Either way, I'm voting NO to name changing. The combo of Forename-Surname should be unique and permanent, but one thing my dilemma brings up: -
If it is the *combo* that is unique, does that mean other people will be allowed to use my surname?... Hmm... not sure I like that, but I see why...
EDIT: Done some searching and have found comments from Aradune saying Forename-Surname should be unique and Kilsin saying firstname should be unique (with surname chosen later. Non-Unique?) and here's me saying as far as branding a channel is concerned, and relating to Progeny, surname should be unique (and *not* firstname). Ugh.
On the question of Evilyn Disposalist from a roleplaying perspective. You DID ask for comments otherwise I would never comment on someone's choice of names, within reason.
My view of "roleplaying" names is that they should not contain "real world" elements and should generally be a NAME not a reference to one's profession, appearance etc. A name being something that one's parents or others acting in loco parentis actually might have given you at birth. Of course, this assumes a society where names ARE given at birth or soon after. Some societies have given names much later, perhaps as part of the coming of age rituals, and often reflecting the person's appearance, habits or likely profession at the onset of adulthood.
Evilyn for a rogue hits my ear as intended to be a clever mix of a standard name (Evelyn) and a reference to the profession (no not all rogues are evil but I think the intent here is rather clear). That said I find it a bit jarring though it can easily be justified in a backstory as a coming of age name or perhaps a birth name where a childhood of being nicknamed "evil" led the character into the rogue profession.
There was a website for EQ that would essentially keep track of players name changes. You could see x player changed named to y.
I think most people's concern is people changing names in order to avoid a bad reputation. If there was a way to just have this information public and keep it transparent. I see no issues with name changes.
Porygon said:There was a website for EQ that would essentially keep track of players name changes. You could see x player changed named to y.
I think most people's concern is people changing names in order to avoid a bad reputation. If there was a way to just have this information public and keep it transparent. I see no issues with name changes.
You can tell an old EQer when you see one. Correct... we used to use it for scammers, and or people that guild hopped to farm other guilds.