With the implementation of the Progeny system, I am wondering if special items that are hard earned and fought for ( an Epic item as an example) will be able to be passed on to a relative? It would be neat to pass a Legacy item to a son/daughter if and when they are able to equip and use instead of breaking it down for crafting mats or just having sit in the bank unused.
This leads me to the general question, if items should be bound to a character e. g. on pick up or on equip, etc., or if they should be totally free tradeable.
Should there be class restriction, so that one class can not wear a kind of armor or can not equip a sort of weapon? Im not sure about this, but in my opinion at least the class specific epic items should be bound to the character who has done the epic class quest chain. If the warrior tank wants to wear a cloth armor and a wand, this may lead to the wipe of the group or raid, but why should it not be possible?
Another part is with items which require a special level of reputation. Here maybe the son or daughter could inherit the fame and reputation of his parents and therefore can inherit this reputation depending items as well. But for other players not having this level of reputation, it should be not possible to wear this items. Or wearing this items will mark them as enemies for this faction and they got attacked by them and are no longer able to interact with them and of course they will lose reputation with this group, so that they are punished even after putting the items of again.
If there are other restrictions like a level restriction or a require X skill restriction, these should of course prevent the character from equiping this items. But they should be able to carry them in their bags or trade them with others, just not be able to use them. Regarding the skill this could be another restriction which could be out of use for child characters, because they could inherit the skill as well from their parents (at least to some degrees).
So in short, I see only for a few items the necessity to have them not freely tradeable, but there should be restrictions in the possibility to wear them. The progeny system could help an alt character to faster overcome this restrictions and be able to wear this items, like a new character would be able to.
For some reason I seem to believe that I have read this idea or heard it spoken about on a VOT segment or something. I think the thing I remember talked about was the idea that some things might get passed down, but may also be weakened in the passing. Wish I could put my finger on exactly where I thought I saw that. Sorry.
Yeah, I've always like the idea of having special weapons or items classified as 'heirlooms'. I imagine that after each generation, the heirloom becomes continually modified. I'd love to have a highly specialized, highly unique and highly personal 'heirloom' sword passed down throughout the generation of my ancestors to show off to people. I'd limit the amount of heirlooms to 1 per progeny line.
It'd be cool if the modifications of the weapon reflected the journey of the progenator. For example, if the progenator slayed an abnormal amount of dragons, the heirloom would gain a dragon 'bane' effect.
Testing to see if the progeny system allowed certain items to be passed on sounds...fun? lol maybe nerve-wracking. If the progeny system makes it into the final product it could be quite a ratings boost for streamers, at least the first few.
I'm very much on the fence regarding the progeny system. I would consider if my static group all wanted to. I have the feeling that regardless how it turns out anyone who 'retires' their character will talk it up.
Not 100% on topic but...the VoT crowd were theorycrafting to make humans less boring last week. The ideas culminated in humans being able to chose any starting city, inheriting their faction and allowing them to chose any deity/class that race had access to. It's an interesting if far fetched idea, but adding progeny to the mix could make it slightly more plausible. Cutscene - a baby floats down a river, an ogre discovers it and can't overcome the mothering instinct, the clan begrudgingly accept this baby that has a face only a mother could love... or whatever story suits your fancy. Requring this only happen thru the progeny system would keep the numbers down to a reasonable level. You can add in the secret race or class benefits from there as others have suggested before.
Landbert said:This leads me to the general question, if items should be bound to a character e. g. on pick up or on equip, etc., or if they should be totally free tradeable.
Yes, if items are BoP then it would be a moot point, unless there was a Progeny mechanic in place to allow that Legacy item an exception.
Should there be class restriction, so that one class can not wear a kind of armor or can not equip a sort of weapon? Im not sure about this, but in my opinion at least the class specific epic items should be bound to the character who has done the epic class quest chain. If the warrior tank wants to wear a cloth armor and a wand, this may lead to the wipe of the group or raid, but why should it not be possible?
Yes, the I believe the Legacy item that is passed down should be passed to a son/daughter within the same class to be able to equip and use.
Another part is with items which require a special level of reputation. Here maybe the son or daughter could inherit the fame and reputation of his parents and therefore can inherit this reputation depending items as well. But for other players not having this level of reputation, it should be not possible to wear this items. Or wearing this items will mark them as enemies for this faction and they got attacked by them and are no longer able to interact with them and of course they will lose reputation with this group, so that they are punished even after putting the items of again.
If there are other restrictions like a level restriction or a require X skill restriction, these should of course prevent the character from equiping this items. But they should be able to carry them in their bags or trade them with others, just not be able to use them. Regarding the skill this could be another restriction which could be out of use for child characters, because they could inherit the skill as well from their parents (at least to some degrees).
Absolutely, the Legacy item being inherited can be passed on to relatives, but I envisioned that relatives only, no selling or trading to other players. So that special family heirloom stays in the family.
So in short, I see only for a few items the necessity to have them not freely tradeable, but there should be restrictions in the possibility to wear them. The progeny system could help an alt character to faster overcome this restrictions and be able to wear this items, like a new character would be able to.
I agree, Legacy items that are able to be inherited should be special drops or perhaps even a high level crafted item, and be few in number, perhaps one per generation as an example.
Oldtimer said:With the implementation of the Progeny system, I am wondering if special items that are hard earned and fought for ( an Epic item as an example) will be able to be passed on to a relative? It would be neat to pass a Legacy item to a son/daughter if and when they are able to equip and use instead of breaking it down for crafting mats or just having sit in the bank unused.
Quoted from Irs.gov:
Beginning January 1, 2011, estates of decedents survived by a spouse may elect to pass any of the decedent’s unused exclusion to the surviving spouse. This election is made on a timely filed estate tax return for the decedent with a surviving spouse. Note that simplified valuation provisions apply for those estates without a filing requirement absent the portability election. See the Instructions to Form 706 for additional information.
No mention of Pantheon epics in the exclusions from the estate tax, therefore the government is entitled to 40% of your epic. You'll need to pay the taxable valuation of the item or forefit ownership to the state.
All joking aside, I hope Pantheon allows us to transfer hard-earned items to our heirs.
I finally figured out this progeny thing, it's a way of gearing up your bard before they are even released. How far behind the curve am I?
Dekaden said:Oldtimer said:With the implementation of the Progeny system, I am wondering if special items that are hard earned and fought for ( an Epic item as an example) will be able to be passed on to a relative? It would be neat to pass a Legacy item to a son/daughter if and when they are able to equip and use instead of breaking it down for crafting mats or just having sit in the bank unused.
Quoted from Irs.gov:
Beginning January 1, 2011, estates of decedents survived by a spouse may elect to pass any of the decedent’s unused exclusion to the surviving spouse. This election is made on a timely filed estate tax return for the decedent with a surviving spouse. Note that simplified valuation provisions apply for those estates without a filing requirement absent the portability election. See the Instructions to Form 706 for additional information.
Exclusions
- The annual exclusion for gifts is $11,000 (2004-2005), $12,000 (2006-2008), $13,000 (2009-2012) and $14,000 (2013-2016).
- The basic exclusion amount (or applicable exclusion amount in years prior to 2011) for gifts is $1,000,000 (2010), $5,000,000 (2011), $5,120,000 (2012), $5,250,000 (2013), $5,340,000 (2014), $5,430,000 (2015), and $5,450,000 (2016).
No mention of Pantheon epics in the exclusions from the estate tax, therefore the government is entitled to 40% of your epic. You'll need to pay the taxable valuation of the item or forefit ownership to the state.
All joking aside, I hope Pantheon allows us to transfer hard-earned items to our heirs.
Haha Dekaden, DONT get me going about the US taxcode....
Glad that I found this topic so I don't have to make one myself
I like the thought of passing on an item to a next generation and based on how many years it has been with the characters before that, and how many places the ancestor has visited with that item,
It becomes a family artifact upgrade when it is passed on to the next generation*
I had posted this on the Champion forums over a year ago.. but pasting my thoughts here on what could make the progeny system work:
I like your thought process OP - but I don't like the idea of having to retire a character.
If the progeny system has to exist, still pretty skeptical of it at this point, I'd like the progeny system best from an FFXI angle (pointing at you Amsai). I most definitely wouldn't want to retire my main character; however, if I could basically be a dual (tri/quad etc.) class, whether that be by psuedo camping, having to go to the guild trainer to swap, etc. to avoid abuse - I could handle that better than having to retire a character and never play it again. It would basically be another form of an alt at that point. And, since it's the same character, they would be sharing the same tradeskill gains, factions, so you could have the advantage of not having to obtain factions/tradeskills etc. if you chose the progeny route. It would also have character reputation play a larger role as your reputation would follow you through your progeny.
Also, I'd rule out stat bonuses and the like altogether so players wouldn't feel forced to have to use the system.
And, it wouldn't completely rule out the need for alts as if someone wanted to experience a completely different faction angle etc. - they would still need to reroll. You could also get creative if the system was more complex to have race/class based restrictions for progenies that made sense.
We have not revealed any more information on the Progeny system yet, so any discussion is pure speculation/opinion and should, therefore, be treated as theoretical discussion until we release more information, doing a search for "Progeny" will reveal multiple closed threads with all of the information you could possibly want to know about it but until we can reveal more there won't be any official replies.
Please refresh yourself on the forum guidelines before continuing this discussion: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1595/pantheon-developer-forum-guidelines
The moment this breaches any of the rules, it will be closed, so please treat this as the first and only warning to go along with all of the other warnings on this topic.
If I want to experience lower level content again I would prefer a mentoring system vs a retirement of my character.
If the bonus received from retiring is good enough to make it part of min maxing a character I would be bummed out big time.
Honestly this is a pretty big deal if it effects the amount of time required to completely max out a character and if implemented improperly could be game breaking for someone like me who doesn't really like alt characters and likes to stick with just one.
Thanks in advance,
Kiz~
Manouk said:I like the idea of some faction passing down to the progeny, it makes sense. ("Oh! you're Ogres'son!") Like if an Ogre worked on elf faction to amiable, the progeny would inherit threateningly or dubious faction.
Disclaimer: This is just theorycrafting and I'm willing to test whatever system is proposed, with that said... to expand:
So, again, my theory would view the progeny system as a different form of alt versus retiring the primary character. And Manouk your point on factions was part of my thought process as well, it could either be a positive (or negative) aspect of having a progeny as you may have earned a lot of difficult factions as your Ogre, but, you may have ruined others as well which would be carried over to your progeny. I think it's one of many ideas that could be used with a progeny sytem that ultimately wouldn't provide a signifcant advantage where people would feel the need to be forced to continue to /reroll for min/maxing, but it could provide enough benefit if someone had done annoying /faction grinds that may get more people to /reroll alts.
The same with tradeskills as well - Parents were Grandmaster Blacksmith, progeny starts out as an apprentice, etc.
And another aspect where you could add more planning/thought into the progeny system is if you had an Ogre Warrior and had a progeny, you would be restricted to the Ogre Classes - Shaman/Dire Lord, etc. Perhaps would be another selling point for a human - not a whole lot of bonuses, but you can be nearly every class for a progeny!
If you wanted a complete blank slate of a character then you would roll an alt.