Mathir said:Kilsin said:As an example of this already happening in-game;
My Rogue uses Mana for stealth stance/skills like Shadow Walk, my mana continuously ticks down as I am in that stance so it can never last forever. I also us Endurance when I use any melee damaging ability and my Smoke and Mirrors CC is tied into that as well and will use 3/4's of my END bar to cast it successfully, limiting my ability to lock down anymore than 5 mobs (without failing a cast) as it is on a 6 sec refresh and only lasts for "up to" 30 seconds, can break earlier, which also takes me out of combat and my main role as a high dpsing melee class.
I know you guys are talking about being more in-depth but I wanted to give you an insight into how we already have it set up to help your discussion along. :)
FIVE mobs?!? As a secondary utility role? An enchanter should BARELY be able to hold five mobs. A rogue should maybe be able to handle two at most. That's nuts. Bet that gets adujsted downward over the course of beta. If the rogue is primary DPS with some control utility, a change I think was necessary and smart, he can't be able to lock down an entire room. What happens if you have a group with an enchanter and two rogues? Easy mode? Plus, that sounds overpowered, why would any other DPS be wanted over a rogue that can CC FIVE mobs in a jam?
You didn't really comprehend what Kilsin wrote, did you. For him to 'potentially' lock down up to 5 mobs for maybe at most 30 seconds (note the "up to" part..very important) he has to be doing nothing else at all. He can't be doing any DPS at all because all his abilities will be draining his Mana and Endurance. Thus in a normal combat situation yes, he might be able to use Smoke & Mirrors on an add here and there but I bet we will not see a Rogue doing DPS and keeping even 1 add locked down.
Vandraad said:Mathir said:Kilsin said:As an example of this already happening in-game;
My Rogue uses Mana for stealth stance/skills like Shadow Walk, my mana continuously ticks down as I am in that stance so it can never last forever. I also us Endurance when I use any melee damaging ability and my Smoke and Mirrors CC is tied into that as well and will use 3/4's of my END bar to cast it successfully, limiting my ability to lock down anymore than 5 mobs (without failing a cast) as it is on a 6 sec refresh and only lasts for "up to" 30 seconds, can break earlier, which also takes me out of combat and my main role as a high dpsing melee class.
I know you guys are talking about being more in-depth but I wanted to give you an insight into how we already have it set up to help your discussion along. :)
FIVE mobs?!? As a secondary utility role? An enchanter should BARELY be able to hold five mobs. A rogue should maybe be able to handle two at most. That's nuts. Bet that gets adujsted downward over the course of beta. If the rogue is primary DPS with some control utility, a change I think was necessary and smart, he can't be able to lock down an entire room. What happens if you have a group with an enchanter and two rogues? Easy mode? Plus, that sounds overpowered, why would any other DPS be wanted over a rogue that can CC FIVE mobs in a jam?
You didn't really comprehend what Kilsin wrote, did you. For him to 'potentially' lock down up to 5 mobs for maybe at most 30 seconds (note the "up to" part..very important) he has to be doing nothing else at all. He can't be doing any DPS at all because all his abilities will be draining his Mana and Endurance. Thus in a normal combat situation yes, he might be able to use Smoke & Mirrors on an add here and there but I bet we will not see a Rogue doing DPS and keeping even 1 add locked down.
I watched him do it repeatedly in the twitch stream. I thought that was fine, it was usually a mob or two, then he'd go back and fight for a bit. But we definitely just watched one rogue do DPS and keep multiple mobs locked down.
Mathir said:Kilsin said:As an example of this already happening in-game;
My Rogue uses Mana for stealth stance/skills like Shadow Walk, my mana continuously ticks down as I am in that stance so it can never last forever. I also us Endurance when I use any melee damaging ability and my Smoke and Mirrors CC is tied into that as well and will use 3/4's of my END bar to cast it successfully, limiting my ability to lock down anymore than 5 mobs (without failing a cast) as it is on a 6 sec refresh and only lasts for "up to" 30 seconds, can break earlier, which also takes me out of combat and my main role as a high dpsing melee class.
I know you guys are talking about being more in-depth but I wanted to give you an insight into how we already have it set up to help your discussion along. :)
FIVE mobs?!? As a secondary utility role? An enchanter should BARELY be able to hold five mobs. A rogue should maybe be able to handle two at most. That's nuts. Bet that gets adujsted downward over the course of beta. If the rogue is primary DPS with some control utility, a change I think was necessary and smart, he can't be able to lock down an entire room. What happens if you have a group with an enchanter and two rogues? Easy mode? Plus, that sounds overpowered, why would any other DPS be wanted over a rogue that can CC FIVE mobs in a jam?
It is up to 5 mobs in a prefect situation, the CC could last 1 second to 30 meaning is a more realistic atmosphere your more likely to do only 2 and still be just doing CC and no dps becuase your endurance it always drained by CCing, they could also make it to where rogues have a more severe diminishing return than enchanter so reapply has abetter chance of it getting resisted and/or make it to where if it last up to 30 seconds the 1st time it could go down to 20 the second time, theirs plenty of ways to make it to where they aren't replacing the enchanter or making ti seem like they are making things seem over powered. We will have to test it when we can and give our feedback on it when the times comes and they see what we think. Right now there isn't enough information of the ability to see if it is overpowered, plus maybe just maybe there might be situations where CCing like this is an absolute must and you'll need more than just an enchater to do it all. We will find out in time
You can also make it to where lets say you have a 35 enchanter and 35 rogue enchnater can mez something up to 40 but the rogue can only mez something up to 33, just another idea
Now back to the original topic i believe autoattacks shouldn't use endurance, but things like slam, shoulder charge or abiltiies like this could for melee the abilities that cuase aggro, stuns, high damage outputs and such makes sense to me when it comes to using endurance for melee, but at the same time i don't want it to be so taxing to where on really long fights like 20 minutes plus (I'm looking at you Vulak Aerr) to where the tank and melee dps simply don't have anything to offer becuase there endurance is nil, and i looked at the stream and noticed it went up at a pretty steady rate on the monk, and i hope it stays like this, it still requires you to use your abilities wisely due to the cost it takes to use each one but you also know your getting it back at an okay rate to where you know you'll have enough endurance to use another ability in time without being able to use all of them before your first one comes out of CD.
Also something to think about.. what about the mobs or environments that silence you? Can rogues use smoke and mirrors while silenced? Can Enchanters use Mezmerize while silenced? Can druids root while silenced? no?.... better hope you have a cleric with a big shield to put a physical blockade in place.
Maximis said:Also something to think about.. what about the mobs or environments that silence you? Can rogues use smoke and mirrors while silenced? Can Enchanters use Mezmerize while silenced? Can druids root while silenced? no?.... better hope you have a cleric with a big shield to put a physical blockade in place.
Just made me wonder how that blockade spell will work. If you have a group with 3 clerics and they make a triangle of barriers around a mob can you just have 3 wizards fill the other spots and nuke a mob without taking damage?
In the original EQ, these things mattered. Weight mattered and strength mattered. I remember passing out from lack of food. You can't regen mana while hungry. Etcetera.
Unfortunately, they caved in on this to the non-immersion, dumb-it-down crowd and got rid of all these things (strength, weight, stamina, hunger, etc.)
I hope PRF brings these things back with a vengeance.
When planning a long trip I usued to actually have to pack and plan for enough food for the journey.