Hey guys. I posted this on Reddit, but thought since I signed up here, I should maybe try here. (Also, just listening to the music from the soundcloud - my GOD the Terminis theme is a great way to start!)
Ahem, anyways...
So lots of games have lots of zones in them, but many go unused. Either you have the case where some zones aren't finished and are empty except for high level mobs to grind out levels on (more than one MMO has launched this way), or you have lots of low/mid level zones that go unused once lots of players have leveled passed them. While I would argue that having some of the former can be okay IF IT IS INTENDED (Vanilla WoW had several largely empty zones, like Silithis, that were in the game for future use - having zones were you can tell something is GOING to happen and you spend months/years trying to puzzle it out until the content is finally released IS cool), it often isn't.
One problem is the number of zones. Even if WoW didn't have ques, 90% of its zones would be empty anyway for this reason, and most MMOs tend to do this. I read somewhere people suggestiong Pantheon would launch with 50+ zones, and that just seems insane to me. But part of this is my philosophy about "invading a new world". I'm an explorer, but I use this term because it more describes the initial push. Imagine you're exploring a new world for the first time. You set up a beachhead, a landing point. There you build a fortress. This is your sanctuary and the place you can fall back for refuge. Fanning out into the nearby surrounding areas, you establish outposts. These further your reach, give you access to more resources...and serve as early warning to your fortress - after all, you're in a dangerous, untamed, wild world that may not take kindly to your presence...
I feel like this is where all games should start. Especially one in which the storyline is that these nation-states have been smashed together on a single world that is unfamiliar and wild. Raw. Unpolished. Untamed.
There are a lot of other parts to my philosophy of games, and this view expands across other aspects. For example, in Vanilla WoW, there often weren't rotations, gear was itemized strangely or not at all (tank gear had Spirit on it), abilities sometimes did strange and unpredictable things, some fights could be cheezed, and between wall jumping and blinking past instance portals, it was possible for intreped explorers to get to Mount Hyjal, Hellfire Penensula, and even the Emerald Dream. (Sorry about using WoW so much, I just feel it's a base point of reference since it's done so many things over time and because people are largely familiar with it - basically anyone that's played an MMO in the last decade has at least tried it at one point.)
...then, it was all "fixed". Or almost all. While a Farsighting Shaman might be able to see some old, unfinished parts of maps, other than that, it's all...polished. Wall jumping was "fixed", unadded zones were removed from code, gear was "properly" itemized, abilities were "fixed" or removed, zones were "fixed", and roations were theorycrafted to death.
...and thus did the world lose its magic. Because between the players and the devs, the world had to be "tamed", to be "polished", to be "fixed".
But see, that's the beauty of a real world - it isn't tamed. It's not polished. It can't be fixed.
It's raw, rough, and imperfect.
To use a non-WoW example, Eve Online. About a year ago, the devs created an expoding star in the game universe. You could see it from EVERY solar system in the game (besides the wormhole space ones). But, it was bigger in some areas. Players figured out that it was actually placed by the Devs to be at a SPECIFIC location, and by flying around, they found the closest solar systems to it, and triangulated the position to find where it was - in an unreachable area of space.
Speculation went wild, and players spent weeks, months, theorizing on what it might be.
That kind of thing IS COOL. That unknown thing that we can debate about and think about and try to guess what the devs might have in mind. And, maybe that the devs haven't even decided yet, they've just put them in the game as threads that they can weave in the future. No one knows...but it's fun to try to get your character there and see these things with your own eyes, and take part in all the guessing!
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I'm not sure what people or devs might take from this, but maybe just something to think about.
Imagine a world where abilities can sometimes be used to do things unintended...but they aren't "fixed". This instead becomes a known quirk.
Imagine a world where entire ZONES are hidden away behind "unscalable" mounts that CAN be scaled...or across uncrossable chasms that...MIGHT be crossable. Where the intreped, adventurous, and imaginative might find a way.
Imagine a world where gear isn't necessarily itemized "right", but rather, where the truly inventive can find creative uses for different sets.
Imagine a world, raw and untamed, where players can explore and discover. And, where if they find something the devs didn't originally intend, the devs incorporate it into their goals. Ever read the start of the Silmarilion? Tolkien writes about how the world of Middle-Earth is created by the song sung by basically the Archangles to their god, Illuvatar. But there's one that keeps singing discordant, trying to ruin the song...yet it becomes PART of the song instead. The dischord blending with the melody to become an intrinsic part of the whole rather than an error to be "fixed".
Philosophically, imagine that concept applied to an MMO. To items, to abilities, to entire zones.
.
But I think I've degressed, lol
So, anyway...
I want a world that's raw and dangerous, forbidding and wonderful, terrifying and beautiful. A world where I breathe a sigh of relief when I hearth or take a portal or hoof it or whatever back to a safe hamlet or my capital city to train new skills, sell my filled bags of loot, and log out for the night at an inn. I want a world where there are lots of people running around the areas near the cities, doing things - meaningful things, even at max level (like maybe even high level gathering materials can be found in those areas, just as uncommon spawns) - but where there are parties of adventurers formed to take journeys more than two zones removed from civilization - where going more than two zones from a capital IS considered an adventurer - with the exception of that stubborn, wonderfully skilled solo Ranger or Druid or whatever setting out on his or her own to challenge the world on his terms and see who is the stronger.
What I don't want to see is hundreds of unused zones and a player base either streched so thin across them that you can't find anyone, or else camped in a capital city waiting on a que.
I want to see an untamed world. I want to see a world where you can take a crazy afternoon trying to climb a mountain that isn't supposed to be climbed and get an early peek at the zone on the other side that isn't exactly open for adventurers yet...but...where the most intrepid are allowed to go anyway!
I think that would be a cool world.
But, starting with just a few zones around the capitals makes the most sense to me, and then there's so much that can be added over time. Or, maybe...that's already there and we just don't realize it...but where we can glimpse them, or where people can sometimes find one here or there...and wonder at their future purpose. Wonder WHAT those demons in various formations are doing, or WHAT those slowly powering up monoliths unreachable in the distance are powering up FOR. Things like that. Things to make players guess and debate and theorize on.
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...or maybe this is all just me? :)
You are not worng, but there *is* something 'practical' that needs to be addressed. I say it has to be addressed for a very good reason ... and that is that VR (as with all MMO designers) will *have* to deal with it at some point before launch!
1. The best scenario is that the game launches with Starter cities and a few adjoining zones round each one. It only needs sufficient zones to cover initial expansion and no maore than 6 months of level gain (say about 10-15 levels). Between some of these zones can be higher level nicessary connective zones - with mobs up to levsl 20-25. Roughly the same scenarios as Vanilla EQ1. This provides enough space for players to level up while explorers can run about risking death.
2. This brings us to the problem.
Starting MMOs (particularly Free ones - tho Panth is not one) have a large population at launch. Even if the population were not 'larger' than expected (for a subscription based game) there is the fact that ALL new players are level 1-5, and will be for the next few week or months. As time progresses, the % of Level 1-5 will drop and the higher levels will grow.
Week 01-04 - Lev 1-5 100%
Week 05-08 - Lev 1-5 90% Lev 6-10 10%
Week 09-13 - Lev 1-5 60% Lev 6-10 40%
Week 14-18 - Lev 1-5 40% Lev 6-10 30% Lev 11-15 30%
Week 19-24 - Lev 1-5 25% Lev 6-10 35% Lev 11-15 30% Lev 16-20 10%
etc
So, what does this mean? It means the starter zones will initially be very packed, laggy etc, ...
... this improving over the next weeks and months until the population finally settles.
With clever use of the size of starter zones and dynamically incrementing the levels of mobs in the outliying parts of adjoining zones to create a moving buffer to cater for the rising median level of p[layers, it is possible to manage the 'starter frenzy' without having to implement a gazillion zones which will be empty in 6 months!
Evoras said:You are not worng, but there *is* something 'practical' that needs to be addressed. I say it has to be addressed for a very good reason ... and that is that VR (as with all MMO designers) will *have* to deal with it at some point before launch!
1. The best scenario is that the game launches with Starter cities and a few adjoining zones round each one. It only needs sufficient zones to cover initial expansion and no maore than 6 months of level gain (say about 10-15 levels). Between some of these zones can be higher level nicessary connective zones - with mobs up to levsl 20-25. Roughly the same scenarios as Vanilla EQ1. This provides enough space for players to level up while explorers can run about risking death.
2. This brings us to the problem.
Starting MMOs (particularly Free ones - tho Panth is not one) have a large population at launch. Even if the population were not 'larger' than expected (for a subscription based game) there is the fact that ALL new players are level 1-5, and will be for the next few week or months. As time progresses, the % of Level 1-5 will drop and the higher levels will grow.
Week 01-04 - Lev 1-5 100%
Week 05-08 - Lev 1-5 90% Lev 6-10 10%
Week 09-13 - Lev 1-5 60% Lev 6-10 40%
Week 14-18 - Lev 1-5 40% Lev 6-10 30% Lev 11-15 30%
Week 19-24 - Lev 1-5 25% Lev 6-10 35% Lev 11-15 30% Lev 16-20 10%
etc
So, what does this mean? It means the starter zones will initially be very packed, laggy etc, ...
... this improving over the next weeks and months until the population finally settles.
With clever use of the size of starter zones and dynamically incrementing the levels of mobs in the outliying parts of adjoining zones to create a moving buffer to cater for the rising median level of p[layers, it is possible to manage the 'starter frenzy' without having to implement a gazillion zones which will be empty in 6 months!
Yup, exactly what i was going to say. With starter cities we won't all be bunched up together, different races. Of course the more popular races will have more congestion but that will quickly thin out as well with your dedicated players 5 - 12 hour players vs your 2 - 5 hour players quickly out leveling certain mob areas. The congestion will mostly be at bosses such as emperor crush etc.etc
There needs to be enough zones to make the world feel big and give us something to explore but not so many that there are ones aimed at a small portion of the levelling process which end up as a ghost town after a year or so.
I would like to see them as well polished as can be, it is nice though to have unfinished things in zones which are there for future expansions to add a sense of mystery and excitment.
Starter area congestion at the beginning is expected and part of the fun of being part of an MMO in the first week of launch.
Well, maybe not entirely.
There are 9 races and it has been hinted at that similar to EverQuest each race will start in a different area. So if this is true then say we have 1800 (picked for easy math) on the server at launch.
Then, in Theory there would only be around 200 people on in each starter zone assuming there was an even spread of races chosen and that everyone was on at the same time. With the zones being large we would then be spread exploring trying to find quests as they aren't going to be handed to us through quest hubs.
so let's assume we all can't play at the same time and that we all don't choose the same race and we all don't explore the same exact way then maybe the world will be populated evenly.
Then we could all get groups, make friends and explore similar to how I recall EverQuest being at start.
Evoras said: ... So, what does this mean? It means the starter zones will initially be very packed, laggy etc, ...... this improving over the next weeks and months until the population finally settles.
With clever use of the size of starter zones and dynamically incrementing the levels of mobs in the outliying parts of adjoining zones to create a moving buffer to cater for the rising median level of p[layers, it is possible to manage the 'starter frenzy' without having to implement a gazillion zones which will be empty in 6 months!
That's a possible solution, but unless it was automatic, I'm not sure VR wouldn't have the manpower to manage such a thing, even in the short term. What it amounts to, though, is lowering the respawn timers based on nearby population to create the illusion of challenge, which is trivial.
Personally, I'm in favor of letting players set their level arbitrarily (not just mentor), and have colored mana widgets / customization currency widgets for gear/spells/skills drop in all zones, thereby making it attractive to hunt in all zones forever.
I don't think there will be too much of an issue provided they have server size be appropriate to world size. As an example, Everquest launched with around 70 zones and for the most part the world felt full of people, most zones being used at all times. Some didn't get love, but that's the way it is, there will always be unpopular zones/dungeons.