Porygon said:Fizzling doesn't add strategy. It's just another RNG factor to deal with. You already have a way to make spells "not 100%" by resists. Gates, and evacuations can fail. Theres not really a reason for fizzles other than because we want the game to be as close to EQ1 as possible.
But you see, it really -does- add strategy. It ensures the concept that someone who has a caster who can go either DPS or heals actually puts in the time and effort to effectively do both. So while yes, fizzling at really high levels sucks, I honestly don't want to see someone who has played as a DPS caster for 99.99% of their spellcasting career be like "Oh I'll just heal now," swap into some offspec healing gear they bought off a market, google a spell rotation, and heal an end-level raid. I want to see them have to work and build those skills toward the spell schools to be able to do that. This creates a variety and spice for characters that means 1 wizard isn't the same as the next, 1 druid isn't the same as the next, etc etc.
So while I do agree that if I've been casting a spell for 51 levels, I ought to know it and fizzle only EXTREMELY rarely or not at all.... I wholeheartedly agree with the concept of fizzling and that it does in fact add an element of character strategy into the game. At higher levels, I rarely fizzled a spell if it was of a school I'd casted frequently (I mostly played healers who did not do DPS) and when I did, I'd always have a backup plan. It didn't make me upset or angry - just the nature of the beast. Even the best of us can make mistakes sometimes doing the simplest of things...
ALSO
I want to point out that Panth is going to be implementing the environmental factor in this MMO in a way that EQ and EQ2 never really saw. I don't know how much that will affect us, or even what other MMOs it has been done in, but I think this layer could be used, based on how character balance goes, to make use of this fizzle effect. I.e. an environment in heavy+dense fog, you're more likely to fizzle a spell that creates bright light than, say, cast in a clear sky night zone. Cold spells might fizzle more in hotter zones, and might not fizzle at all in colder environments. This could be a dynamic that the team is working on, could be something not even touched yet, but it's a cool idea that can help limit the "no fizzle" some people seem to call for without removing it entirely from the game.
I really see your points. But today's game is nothing like we were in 1999. WE are not even the same. Eq was so successful with these weird rules like fizzling because noone knew what was going on.
Now. Spell casting spec. Just means I have to sit around for a couple hours and chain cast true north while watching a movie.
No gamer is going to allow their skills to fall so far behind to where it's going to be like "hey, throw me a heal" ... "sorry I cant, my alteration is a 1". It's literally just a tedious mechanic that will just be leveled while people are afk or waiting for groups. It doesnt add anything to gameplay.
In regards to the parries blocks and dodges... well melee can position themselves to negate parries and blocks. A caster has no control over a random "fizzle". It's just a bad RNG mechanic that doesn't serve a purpose in today's day an age. That's why most games have never utilized that aspect of casting.
And lastly. You dont plan for fizzles. That would be like planning for your tank to go purple. I have played eq at a very high level during original and all of the progression servers and I never ever planned for fizzles. If they happened you dealt with them and moved on.
That games are just not played to same way. Useless mechanics that add to rng are not needed. It would be like melee having the chance to drop their weapon when they swing because their hands were sweaty... like let's just believe that our avatars are adept in their skills and don't need to be coddled with these things.
I agree with porygon on the majority of points.
Many players will level all their available skills to the degree that it is viable because nowadays they understand the need for it down the line. That may be annoying in some situations where you have to level up conjuration, but you haven't run across a situation where you actually needed your conjuring spells, but that's fine. These skills might come in handy in making power leveling more difficult. Even if you're able to get super-buffed with damage shields and get to max level in a couple days, then hopefully you'll need to spend at least a week getting your skills up to par.
Speaking to fizzles specifically, I think porygon hits the nail on the head. Adding layers to combat is great, but what is reality of how it affects the way we play? If there is a 50% chance that you will fizzle, then it works into the mental calculation that you make every time you think about casting a spell. If there's a 0.1% chance that you will fizzle, then it will wipe your group 0.001% of the time. Things that are that unlikely don't have a good chance of entering the mental calculation.
Then again, your subconscious mind might take it into account. I'm no psychologist, but I would guess that if you stubbed your toe on your bedpost a couple times, then even though you weren't consciously being careful walking around your bed, you might actually be more careful. Maybe the fizzles could be like stubbing your toe? Seems like a stretch...
I would like to see fizzles be a 5-10% chance or a 0% chance, but 0.1% seems like a bad zone.
Naim said:Fizzle should be part of being a caster. A melee class never gets to the point where it never misses with a sword. a caster should be the same.
A fair point but also consider that a caster's damage mitigation is generally far lower than a melee class and that a caster can run out of mana, a problem that meleee classes have in only some games. Melee can go toe to toe with a mob without risk of running out of mana. The same cannot be said of a caster.
To balance this a caster's damage output needs to be much higher than a melee class, even a dps melee class. There must be equivalence between classes in the damage + duration + durability/mitigation calculation and an awful lot of games get this wrong. I've been in a long cycle of playing melee classes in recent years due to this issue and I really hope Pantheon's balance can turn that around.
Ah this thread brought back memories...
Press Feign Death Hotkey... "You have fallen to the floor" ... um... uh oh... take a bunch of hits from unfooled mobs ... Feign Death recycles ... Hit that key again ... in worked this time Phew ... better Mend ... hit Mend hotkey ... "You have worsened your wounds!" ... *insert swear word* ... Mobs turn around and start pounding on me again ... YIKES!!!!