Iksar said:Aradune said:
Good stuff, thank you for shining some light on this. Could you at all comment on if there is going to be a minimum character limit; will we be able to have 2+ letter names since we also have last names attached?
And also a maximum character limit. Even with aliases, could someone actually be named "Arkininathdunearinatha"? There's gotta be a line somewhere.
Aradune said:2. Example 1 above, however, would happen infrequently, especially if it already happened at least once. We will have an Alias system for this and other reasons (e.g. it's not just to address the more characters logged in with the same first name issue). Essentially you can take anyone from from a Names List (note you'll be able to have multiple lists, say a friends list, an annoying persons list, etc). You can then assign an alias to any of those names. Like I said, this is to address more than just the 2+ names list -- say you have a person you chat with who insists his character's name is some crazy long authentic Sindarin name "Arkininathdunearinatha". I would immediately do /alias Arkininathdunearinatha Arky. Then when I do a '/tell Arky hurry up and meet at the bridge slacker!' it just works. He doesn't know you've renamed him/given him an alias, but your config does, and you no longer need to type or worry about his long name. Same with multiple people with the same first name. '/alias Aradune Mithara Stinky' and now you just use Stinky to refer to him (me?).
Oh thank God!. I hope no one is tempted to now use "Arkininathdunearinatha"
Bazgrim said:Iksar said:Aradune said:
Good stuff, thank you for shining some light on this. Could you at all comment on if there is going to be a minimum character limit; will we be able to have 2+ letter names since we also have last names attached?
And also a maximum character limit. Even with aliases, could someone actually be named "Arkininathdunearinatha"? There's gotta be a line somewhere.
Good points -- reasonable limits in terms of minimum and maximum characters makes sense. Premature to set anything in stone at this point, but we certainly agree in principle.
Really like the alias system Aradune described as well as many of the other features discussed. I don't typically have a surname but am comfortable if I'm forced into one.
My personal pet peeve, and I know others disagree, if the existence of non-fantasy names in a fantasy world. I'm a bit extreme about it. I'm talking about monks named "Pullz", clerics name "Klerik", or worse offenses such as "WhoseUrDaddy". Original EQ did a very good job policing this sort of behavior but eventually CS failed to keep up.
It isn't a big issue for me, but if I were to cast a vote, it would definitely be to restrict naming to fantasy-appropriate names. I respect those who disagree.
I'm ok with real-world references only when done with a little class. For instance, my wife had an inky cleric in EQ named Klarah B'Artan. Most people who saw it scanned right past it thinking it was a perfectly acceptable name, particularly for inkies. Only a rare few recognized the name/class combo as being an homage to Clara Barton , the founder of the Red Cross. :)
Feyshtey said:That one appears particularly well done. I could certainly get on board with it!I'm ok with real-world references only when done with a little class. For instance, my wife had an inky cleric in EQ named Klarah B'Artan. Most people who saw it scanned right past it thinking it was a perfectly acceptable name, particularly for inkies. Only a rare few recognized the name/class combo as being an homage to Clara Barton , the founder of the Red Cross. :)
I have used this same game character name for almost twenty years and it is my gaming alter ego. This name (and my second character's name) is incredibly important to me and a crucial part of my identity.
Early name reservation is one reason I subscribed at the levels I did.
fazool said:I have used this same game character name for almost twenty years and it is my gaming alter ego. This name (and my second character's name) is incredibly important to me and a crucial part of my identity.
Early name reservation is one reason I subscribed at the levels I did.
Just to make sure I'm being clear, nothing I said changes your early name reservation you pledged for. But you'll still need to choose a first and last name when you reserve your name.
Aradune said:fazool said:I have used this same game character name for almost twenty years and it is my gaming alter ego. This name (and my second character's name) is incredibly important to me and a crucial part of my identity.
Early name reservation is one reason I subscribed at the levels I did.
Just to make sure I'm being clear, nothing I said changes your early name reservation you pledged for. But you'll still need to choose a first and last name when you reserve your name.
Silly question: How many names will we get to reserve?
Taliche said:Really like the alias system Aradune described as well as many of the other features discussed. I don't typically have a surname but am comfortable if I'm forced into one.
My personal pet peeve, and I know others disagree, if the existence of non-fantasy names in a fantasy world. I'm a bit extreme about it. I'm talking about monks named "Pullz", clerics name "Klerik", or worse offenses such as "WhoseUrDaddy". Original EQ did a very good job policing this sort of behavior but eventually CS failed to keep up.
It isn't a big issue for me, but if I were to cast a vote, it would definitely be to restrict naming to fantasy-appropriate names. I respect those who disagree.
1. Glad you like the /alias system -- I cannot take credit for it -- some of the early text MUDs were clever enough to have it. Funny how many good ideas have been lost rather than gained since the 90s. It really seems like great ideas, interesting mechanics, and really 'lessons learned' have all been losing information, not gaining it, building upon it. In the goal to create the hyper-casual MMO WoW-killer so many just eliminated anything and everything that might turn somebody off. Do this over and over again and you end up with.... ah, I better /rant off. :)
2. I hope you don't feel 'forced' into a surname, but it is something I think worth getting used to. Not just in RL but in good old high fantasy novels and literature the prominent characters use it, e.g. Drizzt Do'Urden, Gandalf Stormcrow, Bilbo Baggins, Harry Potter, Tyrion Lannister, etc. I think this is a situation where MMOs and MMO players and devs need to catch up with the times. Especially given how many people have an online persona now, whether it be a hard core game or a hyper casual game, an MMO or some simple iOS game. Unfortunately, while the need has been apparent to devs for quite some time, again many didn't think it through and took the simple way out -- oh, Aradune is taken? How about Aradune9045, and then you can be Aradune2341. *sigh*..
3. Don't have anything official to say about enforcing fantasy sounding names yet... I was one of the champions of doing so back in early EQ, but it can, if implemented poorly, put a lot of load (read: costs) on the CS team. Currently I'm leaning towards it being as aspect of the server/realm ruleset. In other words, we certainly enforce names on RP servers, but on a regular server? Not so much (just nothing breaking copyright, or anything obscene, etc.). But like I said, it's a big decision and TBD at this point.
Feyshtey said:Questaar said:I’m hoping there aren’t names like “Pullz” or “Leetlooter” and names are something more fantasy oriented.
Agreed. Or even worse, the ogre name "Smashuface", or the rogue named "Pokeurass".
+1. I'm not militant about it, but non-immersive character names annoy me... and, I've been known to veto guild membership for characters with terrible/joke names just on general principles.
Don't get me wrong, every so often I'll see a joke-ish that's really clever and chuckle at it.... but yeah, having to play with that person on a regular basis? No thanks.
Nephele said:Feyshtey said:Questaar said:I’m hoping there aren’t names like “Pullz” or “Leetlooter” and names are something more fantasy oriented.
Agreed. Or even worse, the ogre name "Smashuface", or the rogue named "Pokeurass".
+1. I'm not militant about it, but non-immersive character names annoy me... and, I've been known to veto guild membership for characters with terrible/joke names just on general principles.
Don't get me wrong, every so often I'll see a joke-ish that's really clever and chuckle at it.... but yeah, having to play with that person on a regular basis? No thanks.
Veto guild membership. I love it. Great example of the community governing itself. Want to be taken seriously? Then don't name your character Dorkface.
Nephele said:+1. I'm not militant about it, but non-immersive character names annoy me... and, I've been known to veto guild membership for characters with terrible/joke names just on general principles.
Don't get me wrong, every so often I'll see a joke-ish that's really clever and chuckle at it.... but yeah, having to play with that person on a regular basis? No thanks.
You mean you wouldn't want these fine fellows in your guild?
I can definitely get on Board with what Brad suggested and think we do need to catch up like he mentioned. There are ways to combat the "forced" Surname. This could be autogenerated for you. This is another means of immersion that isnt so unimportant. In RL we have multiple Brads in the World or Jasons, Lisas and soforth. So why not unrestrict Firstnames! and build on Lastnames making them restricted just like in reallife.
Have the Surname be the one the identifies your uniqueness. Thats something that creates Legends! Thus Yarnila GREYMOON is Unique but you might have a Jarnila GREYMOON too so add the "Alias" or "Nickname" So now i am Yarnila "Starstruck" GREYMOON and thus you find me under /tell `starstruck`want to group?
This way you may have multiple Aradunes throughout the world and on multiple Servers but only one true Adradune Mithara. Adding a socalled "Alias" or a "Nickname" as your unique identifier is a good way to look at this also.
I can definitely get on board with this. I think its a good idea.
Now what Bazgrim said also is correct what if i don`t want a Lastname and then as Baz mentioned you have your Madonnas, Ushers, Rhiannas & Adeles (Those are Artist Names, Stage Names) So why not adjust the System to accommidate just that. Just a thought! Maybe something to think on how maybe this could help combat the whole process and be possibly implemented. It comes down to how much work and thought wants to go into a system like this and how deep you want to go. If you want to keep it simple DO NOT READ ON! LOL
Now on the Progeny and sidetracking a little but i had to expand on Brads thoughts here! So bare with me.
This opens plenty of wild ideas and gets the brain going LOL. I have a little RP in me sometimes but not so much that i could live on a RP Server but so much that i always asked myself "why can`t i create a virtual bond with someelse ingame? Other games have had this feature so why not an MMO. Brad said he wants to create Worlds and we as players want to create Bonds, Friendships and so forth. there are plenty of ways to approach this without forcing it onto someone. Let it be strictly optional and or something that has multiple ways to approach this be it between two random PCs or your PC and a Autogenerated NPC (after adding in criteria factors) or even something you don`t have to do at all. (This of course is just specualting and opening up to ideas)
This definitely sparks alot of Ideas for the Progreny and can Benifit this and add some stress on it too. Depending on how deep you want to go with it.
When thinking about creating a progeny however this will pan out in the End imagine being able to have a "Family tree" added to this one that makes your own personal Lore. People could look you up online or however they want and see your long lineage of progenys created. Looking at this from an RP perspective by adding in a mechanic (purely Theoriecrafting here) allowing players to create House Mithara and House Greymoon and thus they form an in-game Bond creating House Mithara-Greymoon and thus the progenys created out of the two carry that Lastname or the choice out of the two. this is where the Stress factor comes in though also so there has to be ways to combat this that reliefs the Stress Brad mentioned for CS and obviously the strain on the game mechanics side.
So adding choice into the Mix of choosing one or the other or both will help that be combated. But the effect further on down the line of lineage create its own unique story going forward. Now lets have a look a this in detail for RP servers:
Yarnila Greymoon
Aradune Mithara
decide to form a unified house and become one and thus we can create both a Progeny
Yarnila Greymoon decides to call the offspring
Jarnila Mithara-Greymoon
Aradune Mithara decides to call the offspring
Saldous Mithara
These Progeny go out into the world and once they reach the coming of Age to create a progeny they too might create a House
Now Jarnila Mithara-Greymoon bonds with with Leksur Ackus
So now we might have
Karnila Ackus or Karnila Greymoon-Ackus (Since that Character is from the decending line of Greymoons
So in turn this would mean the Mithara Line would in turn have the same options avaliable as the example with the Greymoon Line.
This in turn creates a nice little tree of Family History where one might be able to write a little Biography for everyone to read up on.
In turn this can be done on traditional servers too maybe not so much or with the added option of it being a computer generated partnership. Just wanted to point out the "Immersion possiblilties" and how this related to Brad wanting to create Worlds post.
SIDENOTE:
kelenin said:Manouk said:Oh thank God!. I hope no one is tempted to now use "Arkininathdunearinatha"Â Â
I now know my first character's name...
I challenge anyone to record them saying that name 3 times fast :)
Possible strategy for Player names
... Following on from Aradune's suggestions, I posit the following:
1. Name Reservation:
NB: While nigh-on all pledges which have a 2nd free copy of the game come with a name reservation, it doesn't come with any way to reserve more than one (short of making a second pledge).
a. Reservation can either include just first-name, or both first and surname.
b. This can even be staggered / done seperately.
E.g. each 'name' reservation = actually worth two names: people have two names they can reserve.
Those with spouse/partner might choose 2 x First-names, while another pair might choose to reserve one first-name and one surname, leaving them to pick a 2nd first name at launch.
(Both could use the same surname, ideally - but this would have to be dealt with.
c. Surnames must be unique.
Surnames must be unique either per server or globally.
First names need not be unique, but the 'first name + surname' combination must be!
2. Name Assignment:
a. Choice
First name and 'family' name (surname) are chosen at character creation.
b. View
While all characters have a first name and a surname, viewing the surname can be toggled on/off.
I.e. you can toggle on/off 'show my surname' and 'see others' surnames' idependently.
Thus your rogue is known as "Lucrezia" (but people could 'inspect' to see her family name is 'Borgia'...)
3. Name Fame:
a) 'show my surname' is forcibly set to OFF until the character meets certain criteria:
i) Subscription, not 'free' test account
ii) Surname is 'registered' at a City of your choice as a citizen.
This might be done at more than one City, but likely moves your 'family home' there.
It will cost 'gold + influence' (more of one means needing less of other)
[Influence is accrued via factions/quests within the city]
b) Your name become more recognised by NPCs as you accumulate more 'fame'.
This may POSITIVELY affect NPCs in other cities/wilderness with allied factions.
This may NEGATIVELY affect other mobs/NPCs with opposing factions
c) Your name can gain status and titles.
i) Factions/titles add to your family name fame.
ii) Family 'attached' benefits trickle to others/Alts with the family name.
4. Name Adoption:
A player can get 'adopted' by the owner of a surname in preference to their own name.
a) Alts can choose this surname in char-creation
b) Progeny-Alts have it as default, but can choose to be a cadet-branch, or un-related.
Cadet-branch Alts get limited (say 50%) name benefits
un-related Alts get no name benefits
c) Another account can apply to 'join your family tree'
i) as spouse/sibling or close relative, they gain/affect family fame substantially
ii) as 'remote' relative (cousins etc), then gain/affect family fame very little
These categories can affect who is 'head' of the family.
This is merely scratching the surface of what ammounts to a Roman 'familias' system, where your own fame was affected, if not overshadowed, by your family's.
E.g. : An NPC cutpurse may think twice about trying to pickpocket a member of the 'Borgia' family!
Evoras, must now decide if pets also take your family name... hmm 'Goner Smith' ?
Bazgrim said:Aradune said:3. This greatly helps with realm/server transfers. No more issues there we hope. Will a name, first and last, need to be together unique not just across a realm but across all realms? Likely so, yes.
Thanks Aradune.
I like this point. Nothing more annoying than when servers merge and you get a "-1" tagged to the end of your name because there was already someone on that server with the same name.
It may seem silly, but I think a character with only a first name just sounds so much more legendary, like Madonna, Beyonce, Rihanna, Oprah, Adele, Drake, Kesha, Usher... the list goes on and on. All the players I looked up to in EQ only had a first name, so maybe that's just what I'm used to.
Although there are a lot of people whose reason is that it's too easy for some troll with the same first name as you to tarnish your reputation. And I would agree with that too. A lot of people work hard for their good reputation - myself included. But hopefully people can be more discerning and pay attention to people's last names. It might feel weird to have introduce myself with my character's first and last name at a Fantheon, but I could probably get used to it. Your persona in a game is very important for sure, but I think part of it is that you be easily recognizable.
Pros and cons as always.
Time to see if I come up with a cool last name that's easier to spell and pronounce.
Just a thought on the one name thing...
1) Perhaps they permit you to hide your last name if you choose to... such that you have one (required) but people will only see your first name unless a conflict arises that needs to be remedied (They do a /tell Bazgrim and it says there are 4 of them)
2) Perhaps the UI allows you to hide all last names on your screen to mitigate screen clutter. For example, back in EQ my ranger was Wandidar Aroundidar. You get 100 people on a screen taking up that much tag space over their head, and you get a very cluttered screen.
