muscoby said:I believe there should be low level dungeons around starting cities just to get people acquainted with "something more dangerous than the usual." Some quests to lead the beginners into the dungeon area (Crushbone belts, Runnyeye beads, Gnoll Fangs).
I absolutely love the idea of lower level dungeons, but it would require a much slower leveling curve imo. I wouldn't want to see them spend the time, effort, and recources to build lower level dungeons just to have players out level them in an hour or 2. Lower level dungeons worked great in EQ because the leveling was so slow that you utilized those dungeons for long stretches. Current MMOs you can out level a dungeon before you even enter it. I'm personally in favor of slower leveling and have the dungeons but that's just me.
Ruar said:I'm just a bit confused why people think having instanced options means there is no static content. I know the trend is either the zone is completely instanced or it's static, but why not have both? I just don't get why someone would want to limit their options by only having a static dungeon instead of building in instanced options to promote more people playing.
I won't go deep into this one Ruar as it's probably better suited for it's own thread, but I will say this. People are like water, they will naturally flow to the path of least resistance. If given an easier "option", then that is the direction most will take in a competatrive multiplayer game. This makes instancing a difficult balancing issue that rarely works out in practice as good as it seems on paper. In regards to keeping this related to this thread, I would be in favor of it for a raid dungeon similar to how the did it in VG for APW, but I would not care for it in normal dungeons. Just my 2cp.
I enjoy high risk, high reward dungeons. At the same time, I don't like overcrowded dungeons. There should be several dungeons within a level range to give you alternatives. Loot and experience need to be balanced enough to minimize the problems.
IMO there shouldn't be 1 go-to dungeon for any level range.
Man this is a tough one. I think the atmosphere with a hint of fear put into it. You are going into places where you should not be and it can be very dangerous.
Challenging is another aspect that I enjoy. Now I don’t mean the mobs specifically but the design of the dungeon itself. Nothing better than going into a ruin to find a cave or entrance and descend into the unknown. Cliffs, random holes, traps and all manner of nasty encounters. Specific loot you are going after. Feathers from some beast or a lost scroll for a spell. Way to many variables here.
I think VR should approach this differently with a single dungeon (in multiple locations) that has an increasing risk factor the deeper one goes in. Make the experiences all different. No cookie cutter content that we see now in most games. It’s tough to do but worth it in the end.
Ox
Tralyan said:Vanguard did dungeons right. There were so many of them for every lvl range. I can only imagine an alternate reality where Vanguard was and remained popular, and all of those off the beaten path dungeons were used and explored. Even near the end, one could still Wiki a particular dungeon and not find a shred of info on it. It was wonderful, but also sad.
I have faith that Pantheon will do it right.
We agree on most things, but we disagree here. I think Vanguard was actually Too large. There were too many dungeons and too many items which ultimately made them feel diabolesque to me outside of some of the major quests. I do think original EQ could have added a few more at each level range, but it's a fine line between adding too many and watering down itemization.
I think EQ later on experienced a similar scenario, which is why I hope Pantheon is designed with expansion content in mind for existing dungeons, rather than continually spreading out the population to brand new. I've used the examples of the basement before in Unrest opening up to some new higher level dungeon with the keys that were never used. Get the community to come back together rather than spread them apart.
To me the most important thing is having dingeons that are big enough to support multiple groups of people. I want a dungeon I can crawl around in and that supports high end camps in the end. I like spending serious time in dungeons like how Vanguard was set up to be where dungeons had level ranges instead of just a lvl or 2 and then you needed another dungeon. This really felt like you were making progress, and that your character was gorowing while you were playing. It really put it together that you were becoming a hero in that area and you had beaten the low to high level challenges inside of that dungeon.
Raidan said:Tralyan said:Vanguard did dungeons right. There were so many of them for every lvl range. I can only imagine an alternate reality where Vanguard was and remained popular, and all of those off the beaten path dungeons were used and explored. Even near the end, one could still Wiki a particular dungeon and not find a shred of info on it. It was wonderful, but also sad.
I have faith that Pantheon will do it right.
We agree on most things, but we disagree here. I think Vanguard was actually Too large. There were too many dungeons and too many items which ultimately made them feel diabolesque to me outside of some of the major quests. I do think original EQ could have added a few more at each level range, but it's a fine line between adding too many and watering down itemization.
I think EQ later on experienced a similar scenario, which is why I hope Pantheon is designed with expansion content in mind for existing dungeons, rather than continually spreading out the population to brand new. I've used the examples of the basement before in Unrest opening up to some new higher level dungeon with the keys that were never used. Get the community to come back together rather than spread them apart.
Quite right, Raidan. I had forgotten the horrible itemization of Vanguard - but correct me if i'm wrong, that the real itemization problems happened later, as in post F2P. Correct? Or was it all throughout?
Diablo-esque hits the nail right on the head. You'd have green, blue, yellow (Was it yellow?) versions of an item with the same name, same stats but improved. I agree that this isn't something I'm looking for. But at the same time, some of my most enjoyable memories in Vanguard was collecting random adventurers and delving into these dungeons that not a soul was in. Not for the loot, just because it was there. Many dungeons were nothing but a hallway with a few adjoining rooms and corridors. Many dungeons I never saw a single Named mob there. Many of them didn't even have quests (that I knew about) associated with them. But they were all enjoyable in their own way.
I recall one, I forget the name, but it was some hidden doorway in the side of a giant cliff overlooking the ocean. You had to fight your way down this ramp and stairs down the cliff to get to the entrance. There was absolutely no reason to get into this dungeon, but the experience of it and finding it and exploring it was enough for me. I do concede that it may not be enough for people, and I'd also concede that I don't want to see these empty dungeons in Pantheon.
So yes, a good balance between the amount of dungeons in Vanguard and the amount in EQ would be preferrable. Hopefully Pantheon will handle itemization much better as well.
Docka said:To me the most important thing is having dingeons that are big enough to support multiple groups of people. I want a dungeon I can crawl around in and that supports high end camps in the end. I like spending serious time in dungeons like how Vanguard was set up to be where dungeons had level ranges instead of just a lvl or 2 and then you needed another dungeon. This really felt like you were making progress, and that your character was gorowing while you were playing. It really put it together that you were becoming a hero in that area and you had beaten the low to high level challenges inside of that dungeon.
I've wondered why developers don't plan existing dungeons for expansion. Say have a permanently locked gate/door or a pile of rubble blocking a tunnel/pathway, and then during an expansion not only add new zones, but extend some existing dungeons. This could help dungeons from becoming too obsolete, and create new adventures for those that mised that dungeon the first time through leveling, and creates content to maintain population spread and numbers in certain regions.
The extended dungeons could be higher level than the existing areas, which then increases the level range of a dungeons and helps create more mingling between PC level ranges.
Imagine if you will, Befallen in West Commons a 5-20 level dungeon at the start, then an expansion comes out, that adds new exposed areas to Befallen making it a 5-30 range.
I never liked when they completely revamp a dungeon from a 5-20 range to a 20-40.
Fulton said:Docka said:To me the most important thing is having dingeons that are big enough to support multiple groups of people. I want a dungeon I can crawl around in and that supports high end camps in the end. I like spending serious time in dungeons like how Vanguard was set up to be where dungeons had level ranges instead of just a lvl or 2 and then you needed another dungeon. This really felt like you were making progress, and that your character was gorowing while you were playing. It really put it together that you were becoming a hero in that area and you had beaten the low to high level challenges inside of that dungeon.
I've wondered why developers don't plan existing dungeons for expansion. Say have a permanently locked gate/door or a pile of rubble blocking a tunnel/pathway, and then during an expansion not only add new zones, but extend some existing dungeons. This could help dungeons from becoming too obsolete, and create new adventures for those that mised that dungeon the first time through leveling, and creates content to maintain population spread and numbers in certain regions.
The extended dungeons could be higher level than the existing areas, which then increases the level range of a dungeons and helps create more mingling between PC level ranges.
Imagine if you will, Befallen in West Commons a 5-20 level dungeon at the start, then an expansion comes out, that adds new exposed areas to Befallen making it a 5-30 range.
I never liked when they completely revamp a dungeon from a 5-20 range to a 20-40.
I like the sound of that idea. My favourite dungeon in EQ was Old Seb and I would have loved to see the developers extend it in later expansions. That zone was brilliant and quite a challenge when you went deep into it. All dungeons could be expanded as the game expanded with new expansions. I have no idea how often they are planning on releasing new expansions but once a year sounds like a reasonable amount of time to get a new expansion out to customers.
Fulton said:I've wondered why developers don't plan existing dungeons for expansion. Say have a permanently locked gate/door or a pile of rubble blocking a tunnel/pathway, and then during an expansion not only add new zones, but extend some existing dungeons. This could help dungeons from becoming too obsolete, and create new adventures for those that mised that dungeon the first time through leveling, and creates content to maintain population spread and numbers in certain regions.
The extended dungeons could be higher level than the existing areas, which then increases the level range of a dungeons and helps create more mingling between PC level ranges.
Imagine if you will, Befallen in West Commons a 5-20 level dungeon at the start, then an expansion comes out, that adds new exposed areas to Befallen making it a 5-30 range.
I never liked when they completely revamp a dungeon from a 5-20 range to a 20-40.
I really like your approach here. This is forward thinking and really make sense. You wouldnt even have to build in doors or "connectors" to make it possible in the future. You could instead just revamp the a very small portion of the existing dungeon to link up to the new one by adding new doors and such. Hell, create a cave-in event, or a storyline about the residents expanding. But you're absolutely right about the concept. And a side-effect would be that old dungeons are much less likely to become ghost towns. Traffic thru them by higher level players going to the newer areas, or even like-level players going to new sections would keep the place alive with traffic.
Feyshtey said:Fulton said:I've wondered why developers don't plan existing dungeons for expansion. Say have a permanently locked gate/door or a pile of rubble blocking a tunnel/pathway, and then during an expansion not only add new zones, but extend some existing dungeons. This could help dungeons from becoming too obsolete, and create new adventures for those that mised that dungeon the first time through leveling, and creates content to maintain population spread and numbers in certain regions.
The extended dungeons could be higher level than the existing areas, which then increases the level range of a dungeons and helps create more mingling between PC level ranges.
Imagine if you will, Befallen in West Commons a 5-20 level dungeon at the start, then an expansion comes out, that adds new exposed areas to Befallen making it a 5-30 range.
I never liked when they completely revamp a dungeon from a 5-20 range to a 20-40.
I really like your approach here. This is forward thinking and really make sense. You wouldnt even have to build in doors or "connectors" to make it possible in the future. You could instead just revamp the a very small portion of the existing dungeon to link up to the new one by adding new doors and such. Hell, create a cave-in event, or a storyline about the residents expanding. But you're absolutely right about the concept. And a side-effect would be that old dungeons are much less likely to become ghost towns. Traffic thru them by higher level players going to the newer areas, or even like-level players going to new sections would keep the place alive with traffic.
4 hooves up on that idea. Way to many MMO's fall into that trap. Nice post!
Ox
@Tralyan
Kilsin would actually be able to answer that question better on VG's itemization. I honestly don't recall VG launch as much as I do EQ. I know once they started to add some of the tiered level item quest hubs - like the Hunter's league gear that players were basically forced to complete the quests as the items were so much better than the other level appropriate items that were available at launch, which watered down itemization even more and filtered players to a more linear leveling path. It's pretty similar to what EQ ultimately did with defiant gear if you have played EQlive at all recently.
But, I do know at launch that there were a ton of items - and enough of them for me at least that the items weren't nearly as memorable as EQ. And, there appeared to be at least many more "rare" drops, which again, for me, made them less meaningful. Although, VG still did a much better job of keeping items relevant for at least a few levels versus swapping items immediately. I recall with the weapons at least keeping them for a period of time versus swapping every level.
Back on topic though, I still think somewhere in the middle of VG and EQ would be fine. If Pantheon could launch with as much content as Velious era EQ I think it would be perfect (Kunark probably would be ok too). And, at least with the first few expansions, build on the existing zones rather than build entirely new continents, etc.
Chrushbone and House of Unrest are two examples of excellent zone design. These zones are so memorable becuase they where fun. They were fun despite the many deaths that I acumulated in them. A dungeon that is too easy is at least as bad as one that is too hard. I agree that the ZEMs on P99 create overcrowding in these zones.
I really hope to see the idea to expand existing dungeons implemented. It should be done without announcing all of the changes in patch notes, so that we have to search and discover again. This is really a winning idea.
Raidan said:@Tralyan
Kilsin would actually be able to answer that question better on VG's itemization. I honestly don't recall VG launch as much as I do EQ. I know once they started to add some of the tiered level item quest hubs - like the Hunter's league gear that players were basically forced to complete the quests as the items were so much better than the other level appropriate items that were available at launch, which watered down itemization even more and filtered players to a more linear leveling path. It's pretty similar to what EQ ultimately did with defiant gear if you have played EQlive at all recently.
But, I do know at launch that there were a ton of items - and enough of them for me at least that the items weren't nearly as memorable as EQ. And, there appeared to be at least many more "rare" drops, which again, for me, made them less meaningful. Although, VG still did a much better job of keeping items relevant for at least a few levels versus swapping items immediately. I recall with the weapons at least keeping them for a period of time versus swapping every level.
Back on topic though, I still think somewhere in the middle of VG and EQ would be fine. If Pantheon could launch with as much content as Velious era EQ I think it would be perfect (Kunark probably would be ok too). And, at least with the first few expansions, build on the existing zones rather than build entirely new continents, etc.
VG's itemisation was actually pretty good up until just prior to the F2P move, they overhauled a ton of items and basically ruined the game and class balance by making low level 1-40 items better than some high-end raid gear but yeah, before that happened, it was quite well balanced and there was a ton of items and that isn't including craftable items. :)
What makes dungeons attractive? The same things that make a woman attractive. For instance:
Upon entering this strange new realm you are enticed by the possibility of adventure, friendship, romance, and booty!
At first things are hesitant as you scope this new place out, tentatively tiptoeing through this dark uncharted territory. All seems well as you place one foot in front of the next, yet just as you let your guard down you fall through the cracks of the dungeon floor, crashing down into the depths below. Now you must fight your way up through these dense catacombs back to civilization with no one to guide you..but alas, a light glimmers in the distance, with renewed confidence you make your way over and discover a pristine sword lying on the ground. You place this sword in your grip and run your fingers down the edge of the blade to check its worth. Your senses alarm you to what seems to be a beautiful maiden singing in the distance. Taking your sword in hand you decide to follow this sirens song. You follow a walkway of what feels like cobblestones beneath your feet, although you can't be sure as you're overtaken with complete darkness. Then, the sound of running water and a slight glimmer you see her: tall, thin, and wearing a red cloak, she beckons you with open arms to come closer. You can feel her eyes drawing you in. You're no fool and as the distance between you and her draws nearer your grip tightens along the hilt of your sword. Finally you approach this beautiful specimen and with one hand you pull back the hood covering her face. A ghoul clad in threads! What magic does this place possess?? You swing your sword at its neck freeing it from its body. Your heart races as your sword draws its first blood. You make your way down a long tunnel vowing to fight your way back surface, knowing well and good you have a long battle ahead.
i like my dungeons (and woman) to be exciting!
Great topic,
Strange enough I am looking forward to non-dungeon grouping more than anything else. For the last 12 years i've played World of Warcraft and i've 'lived' in dungeons or raids. At some point I missed just ... being out and in the world and having something 'important' to do. When I started playing Project 1999 I realized what I missed. Treating the world around me as a threat I had to watch out for, and needing allies to conquer patches of 'the world' where I could level up.
Can a dungeon top this feeling?
Sure thing! But if the outside world content is so good why not make dungeons not instanced?
I suppose that has problems too. But good food for thought.
-Todd
I want to add that I like dungeons where you can't just bypass content and go straight to the bottom of the dungeon to the named spawn. Being able to invis and avoid the danger is cheap and takes away from the game IMO . There should always be some sort of challenge .
I also want to see epic dungeons that take several play sessions to work your way down. Ideally they would have safe camp spots or some sort of portal so you wouldn't have to fight the entire dungeon over again every single time.
Loot or significant exp will be the main factors in getting people to a dungeon. Personally I want outdoor zones to have the large range of mobs, with the sprinkle of the high end giants/griffons/spectres etc. I don't think a dungeon is a place to have the same sprinkle of high end named, just cuz it'd attract a high level who then has nothing to do inbetween kills but farm low end named mobs.
As for dungeons specifically, I like seeing the decent level range of mobs, 15-20 range seems good. With enough of each (let's say 5 level increments) that it can support multiple groups. I loved how gukbottom had the live and dead side, and you could see they scratched the surface of the later used opposing factions with quests involved.
I want a maze of tunnels, confusing, and no map to guide you. I want your new group member who has never been there, HAS to ask for a guide. If it's a simple just come down til you see us, then it is a failure of a dungeon. I also want there to be potential creative shortcuts, guk bottom jumping off the bridge by the bats and landing down near the jail area. There should be a fair amount of traps, fake walls, etc. The various climates should allow for the velks style dungeon, slick icy floors that leave you plummeting to the ground if you get too hasty.
I disagree with whoever mentioned invis being a cheap way to cut corners in going thru dungeons. Invis had a random timer, that added issues more often than not when a group moved. Someones invis would drop, then people had to decide quickly about being a hero and trying to help or just helping with the CR.
I WANT SOME TO BE ENORMOUS. That doesn't just mean giant mobs = giant dungeon, but more to do with the depth of it. I'd love to see dungeons deep enough to justify more than one zone, or possibly try to figure a natural/player-made barrier that could be used to de-aggro, a drawbridge or something? The whole idea that you are too deep to even consider trying to flee from a pull going south. I do like Thanakos' idea of having waypoints going down, I think it might require either faction npc or a player-made haven. Where there might typically be a beast who makes it's home a subterranean lake - and as a result all npc's stay clear of it. If you kill the beast then the lake end's up being safe for the long duration respawn.
I do like the idea of having the tunnel blocked by boulders or a locked door to enable expanding later on. The hole was essentially that was it not? Kerra isle too?
Loot- baised of risk and reward.
Suprises - "oh crap! I picked up this book that was sparkling and how we have a boss fight!" or " omg this bridge is slipp- umm guys?! I've fallen and I can't get up.
Looks - Lets take a screeny together here!
Secret passageways - adds to awe and wonder and possibly something unique.
Rare Monsters - That give special one of a kind quests
Specific tools - Having to get items that allow you to go through the dungeon properly
Popular Attraction - If this is a place many people like to go I will want to try it myself as well.
Lokkan said:Loot or significant exp will be the main factors in getting people to a dungeon. Personally I want outdoor zones to have the large range of mobs, with the sprinkle of the high end giants/griffons/spectres etc. I don't think a dungeon is a place to have the same sprinkle of high end named, just cuz it'd attract a high level who then has nothing to do inbetween kills but farm low end named mobs.
As for dungeons specifically, I like seeing the decent level range of mobs, 15-20 range seems good. With enough of each (let's say 5 level increments) that it can support multiple groups. I loved how gukbottom had the live and dead side, and you could see they scratched the surface of the later used opposing factions with quests involved.
I want a maze of tunnels, confusing, and no map to guide you. I want your new group member who has never been there, HAS to ask for a guide. If it's a simple just come down til you see us, then it is a failure of a dungeon. I also want there to be potential creative shortcuts, guk bottom jumping off the bridge by the bats and landing down near the jail area. There should be a fair amount of traps, fake walls, etc. The various climates should allow for the velks style dungeon, slick icy floors that leave you plummeting to the ground if you get too hasty.
I disagree with whoever mentioned invis being a cheap way to cut corners in going thru dungeons. Invis had a random timer, that added issues more often than not when a group moved. Someones invis would drop, then people had to decide quickly about being a hero and trying to help or just helping with the CR.
I WANT SOME TO BE ENORMOUS. That doesn't just mean giant mobs = giant dungeon, but more to do with the depth of it. I'd love to see dungeons deep enough to justify more than one zone, or possibly try to figure a natural/player-made barrier that could be used to de-aggro, a drawbridge or something? The whole idea that you are too deep to even consider trying to flee from a pull going south. I do like Thanakos' idea of having waypoints going down, I think it might require either faction npc or a player-made haven. Where there might typically be a beast who makes it's home a subterranean lake - and as a result all npc's stay clear of it. If you kill the beast then the lake end's up being safe for the long duration respawn.
I do like the idea of having the tunnel blocked by boulders or a locked door to enable expanding later on. The hole was essentially that was it not? Kerra isle too?
One of my favorite dungeon's in EQ2 was Solusek's Eye. Very very very deep dungeon. For years I would send messages to the development team asking them to create a raid-version of that zone. They did something similar with Cazic Thule (Spirts of the Lost) and other zones throughout the game. But they never did it for Solusek's Eye.
Challenge: make dungeons difficult, this pairs well with the atmosphere being actually creepy (give me some Dark Souls moments of being terrified to explore).
Loot/loot longevity: this pairs with slow leveling. Give me unique items that I'll actually be using for a long time, like, at least 3 or 4 levels (levels that will take me days/weeks to get). Nothing is worse than actually finally getting a piece of awesome dungeon gear only for it to be worthless in 30 minutes after I got it.
Sexier monsters? On a more serious note I think this boils down to a few things: Best loot, best xp, easy to get to and easy to clear. I don't want dungeons to be attractive in the sense of easy to get to or easy to clear. But it is critical that dungeons offer really cool looking weapons, armor, mounts, vanity pets, etc. so that people want to keep going into them again and again. Best xp speaks for itself why would anyone risk dying in a dungeon if the experience rewards are the same as overworld mobs? Obviously max level dungeons the xp thing does not apply unless there is xp loss + level loss (I think I read there won't be level loss in Pantheon). The key is having super rare drops that people want, that will keep people coming back to old lower level dungeons.
There are the more esoteric aspects of what brings people to certain dungeons, but I don't think the Pantheon team is going to purposely design ugly boring dungeons. I don't think we are going to see any hallway - boss - hallway - boss style dungeons like WoW and others ended up doing. I will note however that WoW players kept running those boring dungeons to get their badges/loot. Hence why my first suggestions are loot related. Guk in EverQuest is the gold standard in my eyes, but I really liked Blackrock Depths and Upper Blackrock spire in WoW also. Vanguard had so many crazy dungeons its hard to choose one but I'd probably say Dargun's Tomb was my fav. Yes combat and boss fights are fun but there is more to it than that...I think Visionary Realms knows what to do when it comes to creating ambience.
Design, mob types, atmosphere. Generally just how subjectively interesting or fun the zone/camps were. Loot isn't such a huge deal/incentive to me in an environment without mass bind on pickup/equip as any camp has loot I can potentially sell/trade for whatever it is I want.
Above average loot, differculty, exp, abundance of enemies and places to explore; but that's for most people I think. I like exploring the unknown mainly... and working together to get there.
Sarim said:I'm playing EQ again since a while, on Phinigel, the TLP server. When you listen to the LFG chat, you can notice that most of the LFG/LFM requests are for only two dungeons: Unrest and Guk. What makes these so special? Actually, Guk I can understand, it is a great place. But why Unrest over say, Najena or Runnyeye or Sol A?
I'm kind of worried that Pantheon may have several great dungeons for a given level range, but that the same thing will happen and people will congregate at only one or two. So how do you rate those factors that could make you choose one dungeon over another:
- loot?
- exp?
- accessibility (how "out of the way" can a dungeon be)?
- difficulty?
- can support multiple groups?
- dungeon setup (for example, crawling vs. camping)?
- ability to sell nearby (or in dungeon)?What would you do to prevent one dungeon from be left aside by the players?
Loot:
Definitely an appealing part of a dungeon. People go to Lguk for specific reasons etc. and I think loot is probably a major part of the allure.
EXP:
I was personally not that much of a fan of "dungeon bonus". Sure, bonus is nice and all, but I would have preferred to see all content balanced for EXP, except for raid mobs etc, but that is another matter. Imo, zone experience modifier made for bottlenecks and often promoted poor in-game behavior and powerleveling (often see a level 60 and a solo low level, taking up entire areas to PL). I'd rather see a server wide "all weekend from friday util sunday, everyone gets 10% EXP" then see a few dungeons here n there be bonused 24/7
Accessibility (how "out of the way" can a dungeon be)?:
I am okay with remote dungeons, the idea intrigues me as to how VRI will implement it but I have to say the remote dungeons in EQ and the journey to them? Mostly found it more of an annoyance to get to them as opposed to any form of "fun journey". Nothing to look at, nothing to see, just a bunch of crappy mobs you may or may not run into while you run along a wall, while looking at repeating wall textures and trees. If the eyecandy along the way is worth it, and a few random RnG rare mobs have an extremely or ultra rare chance to drop something cool it might help, but not too gamechanging drops of course, then bring on the journey. Also, side note,on of the things I hated about WoW was teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport... also equally boring imo. I also like the idea of the more remote the dungeon/area is, the more dangerous it is. I'm sure we will see many different opinions on this though.
Difficulty?
Difficulty is a funny thing. In an MMO we are meant to come into an area, be challenged, overcome the challenges through teamwork and strategy, then be rewarded with gear and content that allows us to continue on to more difficult content. I would definitely like to see difficulty scale with leveling etc, and be more challenging as levels progress but at the same time, part of why I play an MMO like this is the relaxtion of a camp after a long dungeon crawl to get there and break the camp and timing it. An easy dungeon is no fun, but also, having said that once you break and time a camp, the difficulty factor should ease up a little. What I mean is, having dungeon crawled in, fought your way to a camp, broken the camp etc, and gone out of your way to properly time killing mobs for good mana return between fights etc... then you should be rewarded a little. Make it so that it is not entirely annoyingly difficult to hold and maintain the camp. Crawling to it and breaking the camp should be the challenge, not holding it imo, though the camp should also not be a totale cakewalk either. As always though, I am hoping to see Pantheon harshly punish for impatience and carelessness, the same way EQ does. Too many MMO's today reward/forgive impatience and carelessness.
Can support multiple groups?:
Very important imo. Having multiple "end points" or crawl destinations for loots, and even allowing for EXPing is part of the allure for me.
Dungeon setup (for example, crawling vs. camping)?:
Would like to see plenty of both.
Ability to sell nearby (or in dungeon)?
Not interested in seeing this everywhere. Nice to have vendors like the gypsies in EQ here and there though.
What would you do to prevent one dungeon from be left aside by the players?
Tough question.
One idea I had was to have "roaming" NPC's... a series or set of "special" NPC's in Terminus that are not just "stand at camp" NPC's, but rather scripted ones (maybe even with limited AI?) that have their own virtual lives and story/plotlines, and have their own thing going on. Players can kill, or interact on non-violent levels with these NPC's depending on class/race/deity etc. These NPC's and their agendas, tasks and even loot tables etc could change as the game progresses, and be part of ever changing plot content.
Another thought I had is to alter dungeons, or make them seasonal even with regards to content. Part of what kills old content I think is that it rarely or never changes. A "cave in" here making it so players now need a different route, but the cave in exposed a new, never before seen kind of cave mushroom in a huge cavern, useful in crafting slightly stronger heal potions... but the spores ony mature for 2 months out of the year, and the potions made give a slight, but not gamechanging bonus. Only harvestable by skilled harvestors/crafters though, with the proper equipment, preventing farming by non-crafters. Just throwing some ideas out there...