As much as I love this game (or at least love what I know about it), $50 is just too much for me to justify paying monthly for a game. Hell I don't even like the idea of $25. People come in here (and on the facebook page) with the argument that there's no place for subscriptions in today's market, and I fully endorse the $15 subscription to Pantheon. I couldn't agree with more though, I feel like greed is the motivation at that point :(
You're absolutely right. I compromise because I don't have a choice atm lol. None of us do. Either you find something to play that keeps you somewhat interested for now or you play nothing. Right? But charging that high of a cost for a monthly sub fee would drive away a lot of people. That is the reason I said I wouldn't do it. Playing an MMO with a lack of a healthy community isn't very fun. It's like playing on Fippy where there is only 1 guild on the server and zero economy at all.
Can't really speak on your friend. Seems like he made bad decisions if that's the case. But nothing I have asked for would be trend chasing. Nothing I have posted has ever asked them to break their core concepts or game tenets. I haven't asked for an easier game. I asked for common sense. These forums have been wracked with people who are unwilling to even attempt to see anyone else's point of view unless it resemebles their own. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to invest over the past year. I've watched as people have been torn apart for speaking their minds. Only thing I can really say about it is that I am very glad most of the people on these forums aren't involved with the development. If you guys had it your way you would have your game, and it would have about 50-100 people playing it.
Enitzu said:These forums have been wracked with people who are unwilling to even attempt to see anyone else's point of view unless it resemebles their own. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to invest over the past year. I've watched as people have been torn apart for speaking their minds. Only thing I can really say about it is that I am very glad most of the people on these forums aren't involved with the development. If you guys had it your way you would have your game, and it would have about 50-100 people playing it.
While it's off topic, this is the absolute truth, too many people here are beginning to act like A-holes because people have the audacity to offer differing opinions. Kind of hypocritical for people to want renew the sense of community that was lost in other games and then in the next thread act like those same people who killed it in those games. We all want the exact game we want and we all think it will be a raging success if Brad and Co. listen to our ideas only. Like the lottery, there is about a 1 in 17 million chance that you are right about that assumption, but the truth is, not everyone wants everything the same way. You can't be right because you are you all time and i can't be wrong all the time because i am not.
Reht said:Enitzu said:These forums have been wracked with people who are unwilling to even attempt to see anyone else's point of view unless it resemebles their own. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to invest over the past year. I've watched as people have been torn apart for speaking their minds. Only thing I can really say about it is that I am very glad most of the people on these forums aren't involved with the development. If you guys had it your way you would have your game, and it would have about 50-100 people playing it.
While it's off topic, this is the absolute truth, too many people here are beginning to act like A-holes because people have the audacity to offer differing opinions. Kind of hypocritical for people to want renew the sense of community that was lost in other games and then in the next thread act like those same people who killed it in those games. We all want the exact game we want and we all think it will be a raging success if Brad and Co. listen to our ideas only. Like the lottery, there is about a 1 in 17 million chance that you are right about that assumption, but the truth is, not everyone wants everything the same way. You can't be right because you are you all time and i can't be wrong all the time because i am not.
Yeah. Sorry for getting off topic there but it needed to be said. I don't think I'm always right but to be shot down without even so much as a counter point and to just have people say 'because you aren't one of us' is very off putting. Gotta remember even if people don't pay they can still read the forums. What you post is seen and it does determine whether people want to be a part of this community or even game. Your game, requires money. If you drive those people away then your game will fail. If you think it can succeed with just the people currently on these forums, well idk what to tell you. Actually I do but I refrain from saying.
You know, there is a compelling reason to have a lower subscription cost, like the proclaimed $15 bucks per month.
Lower cost means the game is more accessible to more people. More people means more players to play with. More players playing means more people talking about it. More people talking about it means more players.
Sometimes lower cost and higher volume means more money in the long run. Businesses operate like that all the time. I know the game has a niche target audience (initially, anyway) in the MMO industry, but VR doesn't think it will have niche appeal. So in this case, $15 actually makes sense. There is something to be said about dramatically lower overhead running servers compared to 1999 as I've seen noted here before, too. If it were me, I'd seriously take a look at using Amazon's servers -- have fun trying to DDoS that.
Reht said:Enitzu said:These forums have been wracked with people who are unwilling to even attempt to see anyone else's point of view unless it resemebles their own. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to invest over the past year. I've watched as people have been torn apart for speaking their minds. Only thing I can really say about it is that I am very glad most of the people on these forums aren't involved with the development. If you guys had it your way you would have your game, and it would have about 50-100 people playing it.
While it's off topic, this is the absolute truth, too many people here are beginning to act like A-holes because people have the audacity to offer differing opinions. Kind of hypocritical for people to want renew the sense of community that was lost in other games and then in the next thread act like those same people who killed it in those games. We all want the exact game we want and we all think it will be a raging success if Brad and Co. listen to our ideas only. Like the lottery, there is about a 1 in 17 million chance that you are right about that assumption, but the truth is, not everyone wants everything the same way. You can't be right because you are you all time and i can't be wrong all the time because i am not.
No, its not the absolute truth. Its not even the relative truth. Differing opinions are one thing, but its the overtly inflammatory and cynical approach of a few particular individuals that most folks here take issue with and will result in someone getting "torn apart."
For instance, @Enitzu says things like, "I have never asked that they change core concepts... game tenets... or to make the game easier", all things which he has done. Its not only dishonest, but then, adding insult to injury claims his suggestions were merely "common sense" implying those who were opposed (including the developers), had none.
From @Enitzu's very first post:
"Spending 4-5 hours for a level is just not realistic anymore."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concerns
"I do not agree with fully open world raid bosses... It's the reason Sony put in instanced versions of the raid targets"https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concerns
"Once thing I noticed was that we are essenitally back to 1999 EQ with our mana regen...I don't think it will work as well today."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concerns
Thats opposition to meaningful progression, down time, resource management, contested content and an endorsement for instancing. Five things which are invariably at odds with Pantheon's tenets and intended design. Arguably, a few of the core tenets. Not a good start.
Furthermore, many people on this forum have taken the time to explain, in no small detail, exactly what they disagree with; Both to him and to others. Claiming they disagree simply because your opinion does not "resemble their own" is a misrepresentation of their position. They disagree because they signed up for Pantheon due to the stated tenets and features, which @Enitzu largely disagreed with starting with his first post.
Now, some folks do get a little overzealous. In this case, its hard to blame some of them when a poster signs up for these forums and in a roundabout way says, Neat game but common sense says its broken (see above post). That's just not gonna go over well.
Dullahan said:Reht said:Enitzu said:These forums have been wracked with people who are unwilling to even attempt to see anyone else's point of view unless it resemebles their own. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother to invest over the past year. I've watched as people have been torn apart for speaking their minds. Only thing I can really say about it is that I am very glad most of the people on these forums aren't involved with the development. If you guys had it your way you would have your game, and it would have about 50-100 people playing it.
While it's off topic, this is the absolute truth, too many people here are beginning to act like A-holes because people have the audacity to offer differing opinions. Kind of hypocritical for people to want renew the sense of community that was lost in other games and then in the next thread act like those same people who killed it in those games. We all want the exact game we want and we all think it will be a raging success if Brad and Co. listen to our ideas only. Like the lottery, there is about a 1 in 17 million chance that you are right about that assumption, but the truth is, not everyone wants everything the same way. You can't be right because you are you all time and i can't be wrong all the time because i am not.
No, its not the absolute truth. Its not even the relative truth. Differing opinions are one thing, but its the overtly inflammatory and cynical approach of a few particular individuals that most folks here take issue with and will result in someone getting "torn apart."
For instance, @Enitzu says things like, "I have never asked that they change core concepts... game tenets... or to make the game easier", all things which he has done. Its not only dishonest, but then, adding insult to injury claims his suggestions were merely "common sense" implying those who were opposed (including the developers), had none.
From @Enitzu's very first post:
"Spending 4-5 hours for a level is just not realistic anymore."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concerns"I do not agree with fully open world raid bosses... It's the reason Sony put in instanced versions of the raid targets"https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concerns
"Once thing I noticed was that we are essenitally back to 1999 EQ with our mana regen...I don't think it will work as well today."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2945/video-related-concernsThats opposition to meaningful progression, down time, resource management, contested content and an endorsement for instancing. Five things which are invariably at odds with Pantheon's tenets and intended design. Arguably, a few of the core tenets. Not a good start.
Furthermore, many people on this forum have taken the time to explain, in no small detail, exactly what they disagree with; Both to him and to others. Claiming they disagree simply because your opinion does not "resemble their own" is a misrepresentation of their position. They disagree because they signed up for Pantheon due to the stated tenets and features, which @Enitzu largely disagreed with starting with his first post.
Now, some folks do get a little overzealous. In this case, its hard to blame some of them when a poster signs up for these forums and in a roundabout way says, Neat game but common sense says its broken (see above post). That's just not gonna go over well.
I wasn't naming people, i was just using part of his post as a soap box, you proved my point.
Enitzu said:Crazzie said:NO way, that is something that anyone should be expecting when you purchase a game. Gold selling is against EULA, and so is advertising for it. So you believe we should pay more to have them out?
when clearly it normally states you cant.
Lol. Gold selling has been against every EULA ever made. But google any games name plus gold and see what pops up. Against the EULA or not, they will be here as they are in every game since forever. Higher prices just makes it more of a gamble for them as they risk losing money instead of making it.
Oh trust me i know very well of them, my first necro was asked to be bought in EQ. I wont link, wont name names but i was offered 5000 grand for him. False or not i wouldnt get involved but they where selling all kinds of toons high prices.
Lineage 2, guy tells me he paid his house off from EQ 1, i couldnt believe it until he told me the whole story.
Stories or not, i believe it. There is tons that can make money from it. Being the first bigger product, seeing sales online, then gold starts to be sold once it becomes bigger...yeah something is up.
but........ If i paid 1000 per month sub, it would encourage them even further to investagate why its so expensive. They are watching us now... so i trust it not.
If i gave 1000 to VR to play server based, on my own i would be better off see what i mean? and invite friends to play it and monitor it myself.
Crazzie said:Oh trust me i know very well of them, my first necro was asked to be bought in EQ. I wont link, wont name names but i was offered 5000 grand for him. False or not i wouldnt get involved but they where selling all kinds of toons high prices.
5000 grand, you definitely should have sold it! :-)
Reht said:Crazzie said:Oh trust me i know very well of them, my first necro was asked to be bought in EQ. I wont link, wont name names but i was offered 5000 grand for him. False or not i wouldnt get involved but they where selling all kinds of toons high prices.
5000 grand, you definitely should have sold it! :-)
I was scared as hell being baited into believing there was some truth. Honesty? i called a buddy of mine and told him. We checked it out on the site and sure enough they where being sold high. I thought about it trust me. I also believed it was a scam.... still wondering to this day.
I really enjoyed EQ back then and i put a crap load of time into one of the few High necros on the server. It was different back then, when we had Announcements of it in the game..
Edit = I also told the guy in lineage 2, he also said i should have sold him off. Chances are it was legit sale. He too agreed, saying it was a small but growing market for it. I think he was one of the big guys with 5 characters farming gold in lineage 2. It was his guild only, i got invited when i saw his name tags and guild name. We didnt have many guilds then. I did leave it shortly after he sorta disappeared from the game.
The OP is "what would it take to be a sustainable lean business", please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks and flaming, if off-topic posts continue the thread will be closed.
This has been moved to Off-Topic as it has nothing to do with Pantheon and is more a "business theory", please be mindful of where you post as it can lead to your posts being moved/removed for being in inappropriate subforums.