Dullahan said:While I personally am not overly concerned with animations for my own sake, I believe this falls under "polish" which is something a great deal of people find important. Even to this day, I think more than anything else polish is the thing most people say they liked about WoW. Regardless of how inane it may have seemed below the surface, there is something about playing a game where the movements and animations are crisp, and the sounds are well synced with player actions and the environment itself. That along with client optimization will make or break a game.
When it comes to movement animations, i think FFXIV pre 2.0 got them right. there was an option where you could turn on"animations" and it would change your runnign style, and you would actually lean in the direction you were turning while running. when you stopped from running, you would literally lean back to stop. its the little things i liked about 1.0 FFXIV. all the sounds matched with everything you did near perfectly.
Strike the balance for me... I like cool animations, but not over the top animations, spell effects, etc... More, I like UNIQUE animations, spell effects, etc... I like being able to recognize classes as much by the look of their gear as the movements they are making and spells they are casting. That is, if a warlock and a wizard were standing next to each other wearing exacty the same gear - I'd like to be able to tell which is which as they start their cast animations (BEFORE I see the spell) - and then have the spell effects be unique.
This does not have to be overdone or overblown... just unique, and distinct.
It's the kind of thing that adds flavor to the game (in my opinion).
The animations most important to me are the walking/running ones. Maybe because they are the ones I most often see. If those are stiff and unnatural or not matching the actual movement then that is going to be a HUGE negative for me. I always felt that was the mark of a cheap crappy game. I would still try to play and enjoy the game but it would be a strongly negative first impression.
Kilsin said:Cromulent said:To be honest it doesn't really bother me. As long as they don't look totally stupid I'm OK with them. I know some people are very fussy about these things but to me it just seems a bit pointless worrying about them. It doesn't really detract from the gameplay at all in my eyes. Then again I'm prepared to admit that I am probably in the minority here.
As to favourites I really don't notice them when I am playing game. I tend to spend more time looking at the scenery rather than looking at my character.
That is fair enough mate, I personally liked watching my Rogue go through his backstab animation in VG, it looked like he was actually putting effort into his dagger lunge, it all looked so fluid and semi-realistic which I liked a lot :)
Got to say I agree with Kilson, Rogue and Disc with a windblade in VG has some of the most awsome animations in any MMO, used to love killing mobs just to watch thier combat animations.
I think everyones touched on the basics, I wouldn't mind a few flares if time allows. The dwarven running roll, troll/ogre butt itching. Only thing that might make that better is if other races/classes might react to that type of thing, passively of course. Ogre itches and a more refined race (elf) might make a face or lower their head and shake it in embarassment.
As already mentioned, a main gripe I had was when dev's were lazy with implementing a weapon type and just copied another classes graphic. Say monks getting a 2h staff but simply using it in the same awkward manor the casters did.
Shadow of Mordor animations please haha!
Honestly they don't have to be super crazy, though maybe not the same animations for taking a creation a potion, opening a door, fixing your weapon, taking a pee, etc...
my best example would be eq1, original models had a somewhat weird running animation, but they had some of the best combat animations, nothing overly flashy like spinning your self around wielding an axe 3 times your size, but still looked like weighty enough, then they did luclin model *upgrade*, was so excited to log in after launch, my woodelf druid looked awesome on character screen then i began running off. and i had a real Wut the flop am i looking at moment, and to make it worse, they made all races now use same animations for the weapon attacks, i liked that there would be minute difference how an ogre looked swinging a sword vs a gnome.
TLDR yea, animations matter just as much as the look of the character standing still.
Char animations to me are not that important (as long as they aren't Stick chars) I think I remember something in EQ that changed everything to stick fiures, was funny for a short period. It is the game play and how the UI works. Still play EQ from time to time. I don't mind those graphics. It's the UI that finally stopped me playing. Can't click on things to loot, have click on the mobs right toe to target it etc. Clisk one thing and target the one to the right instead. They are the sort of things that annoy me.
Character Animation is up there on my list, I like to see different character classes exhibit different combat styles. I enjoy watching combat as much as participating in it. Some of my favorites were the monk animations in EQ2, watching them swing a staff was pretty kool. Rangers in VG had some nice animations too, with a stab and a twist of the blade was a nice touch.
As long as most of the animations are smooth and natural looking I'll be happy though, if they aren't they tend to draw my focus and detract from enjoying the game.
Character animations a very important to me. I like fluent, smooth and organic animations. When your avatar swings a big hammer it should be visible that that weapon has a weight! Weapon type specific animation may be a good choice. And when my avatar runs then it should look like running and not "gliding" because the running animation does not match the running speed etc.
In my opinion, bad animations are a game breaker.
Greetings.
Sadly.. yes.. they are important. And i say sadly because they can be hard to nail down and costly.
But they are important:
- the 'Polish' factor as Dullahan puts it. Major factor indeed.
- the 'Enjoyment' factor.
i) Combat:
If, partly the animations, partly the sounds (the 'oomph' of a strike, the detail in armour clinking, etc.) are good and attractive, one can forgive so much. Because it makes the combat (and let's not kid ourselves, combat is the meat of any MMO) enjoyable. Meaning one can find themselves having fun even in meaningless, petty or grindy/intellectually insulting endeavours. Because combat "felt" fun.
ii) Verisimility/realism:
The more believable it all "looks" to you, the more you find yourself invested. From walking, running, seeing an /idle playing when standing still, all the way up to RPing (which is a crowd, ie a source of revenue, all by itself)
(still, i think the devs shouldn't worry too too much over it. The age demographic for Pantheon being what it is, am sure most of us will be understanding, regardless. Relatively i mean to how a different, younger audience would approach this)
Animations are important for immersion and with todays developent tools there really is no excuse to have them look bad. Now obviously if the game is a good one with a lot of content this will usually be over looked but A fair amount of gamers will still stay away if they look bad and use that as a refelction of the entire game. That may sound shallow to some of us but its a fact.
When I looked at the Video that VR released knowing it was pre alpha I was not too concerned, the question is... Will those animations be changing ? Will how the characters look be changing ? To me both the player animations and the Orc animations looked really bad in that video but once again it was pre alpha.
If you are going to spend the time to create a realistic world then spend just as much time on the animations as it will be a huge selling point to get the maximum amount of players to buy the game.
Not only are animations and visuals a big selling point, but now they're crucial early on for crowdfunded games. The polish that would normally be pushed back to beta is now something that should be addressed from the beginning if you are going to be revealing the product to garner further funding.
While it wasn't always the case, for the last couple years, production value and visuals are what all successful kickstarter had in common. Regardless of who your target demographic is, nothing resonates with people like a visual demonstration of your competence. Shallow as it may sound, people will have a hard time investing in the intangibles like gameplay if they aren't first pleased by what they see.
Character animations are important to me!
Especially if you are keeping the pace of combat slower ala EQ1 - Which I am all for BTW. Been playing a lot of P99 recently and have really been enjoying the pace of combat and the time to plan, think, react, rather than every decision needing to be instant. In this slower paced setting, character animations will stand out that much more. I'm going to be watching these animations ad nauseum and would love it if they were interesting, iconic, and most importantly that the attacks have weight.
That being said, I hope that the partical effects are not too over the top so as to obscure the fight. In that situation I inevitably turn them down to minimal (or off) in group/raid situations as I am more concerned with tactics than I am with pretty lights. I love the EQ1ish direction you were going with this in the livestream.
And since I am weighing in - Character models matter to me too! Being a woman, I will admit that my character is a bit about playing baddass Barbie. I want to look good while kicking tail. Plenty of hair and face choices please! Lots and Lots! Being somewhat unique looking matters a lot too. Please dont design all caster gear to look like a bathrobe. Give us some options. Let us wear pants and a top if we want as well! The more choices we have the more we can create our own signature look. Sorry went off topic there, to me it all falls into the category of what I am constantly looking at while playing. I will get hate for it, but I am not in the group that feels that appearance items cheapen the game. There were times in EQ2 when I wanted to show off my newly complete set of gear and did.....and there were times that I preferred the look of the set from the previous xpac and kept that for appearance because I simply think it looked better! It should be my choice. If BIS for my lvl looks like crap to me, I don't want to be forced to look at it hours a day.
Cromulent said:To be honest it doesn't really bother me. As long as they don't look totally stupid I'm OK with them. I know some people are very fussy about these things but to me it just seems a bit pointless worrying about them. It doesn't really detract from the gameplay at all in my eyes. Then again I'm prepared to admit that I am probably in the minority here.
As to favourites I really don't notice them when I am playing game. I tend to spend more time looking at the scenery rather than looking at my character.
I am in the same group as Cromulent and I too believe we are in the minority. Being the only girl in a group of guys a lot of times its funny to see how they fuss over the looks of their character and most of the times I could care less. But I do completely understand it - It is a role playing game and people want to connect with their avatar. They do not want to walk around and fight looking all wierd and jerky - to them it throws them out of the role playing aspect and not want to play that character. In Rift, I wouldn't play a race (I think it was the Kelari) because I did not like the way she ran/walked hunched over. It would bother me fo rthe rest of teh game. Creating a character and logging in the first time using their skills, has a big impact on whether people want to play that character or not. make a So if VR wants to sell this game they will have to really pay attention to fluid animations/spell graphics so people look at them and say "ooo that looks good I want to play that guy!" It is a good first impression.
MINX said:In this slower paced setting, character animations will stand out that much more. I'm going to be watching these animations ad nauseum and would love it if they were interesting, iconic, and most importantly that the attacks have weight.
I strongly agree with you here Minx. This is incredibly important in a slower paced game launched in today world. When you cast a spell/melee attack that is going to last a couple of seconds - you need to visually fill up that length of time or else people will get bored. A quick stab and wait a few seconds is not as entertaining as a stab with a flourish (appropriately so of course). It sets the mood of the combat and people will get into their characters more.
MINX said:Character animations are important to me!
Especially if you are keeping the pace of combat slower ala EQ1 - Which I am all for BTW. Been playing a lot of P99 recently and have really been enjoying the pace of combat and the time to plan, think, react, rather than every decision needing to be instant. In this slower paced setting, character animations will stand out that much more. I'm going to be watching these animations ad nauseum and would love it if they were interesting, iconic, and most importantly that the attacks have weight.
That being said, I hope that the partical effects are not too over the top so as to obscure the fight. In that situation I inevitably turn them down to minimal (or off) in group/raid situations as I am more concerned with tactics than I am with pretty lights. I love the EQ1ish direction you were going with this in the livestream.
And since I am weighing in - Character models matter to me too! Being a woman, I will admit that my character is a bit about playing baddass Barbie. I want to look good while kicking tail. Plenty of hair and face choices please! Lots and Lots! Being somewhat unique looking matters a lot too. Please dont design all caster gear to look like a bathrobe. Give us some options. Let us wear pants and a top if we want as well! The more choices we have the more we can create our own signature look. Sorry went off topic there, to me it all falls into the category of what I am constantly looking at while playing. I will get hate for it, but I am not in the group that feels that appearance items cheapen the game. There were times in EQ2 when I wanted to show off my newly complete set of gear and did.....and there were times that I preferred the look of the set from the previous xpac and kept that for appearance because I simply think it looked better! It should be my choice. If BIS for my lvl looks like crap to me, I don't want to be forced to look at it hours a day.
Good post MINX I agree with what you say and the fact that we do have to look at our characters does make a big difference. Im also a big fan of the toned down partical effects I would rather they look very cool and realistic rather than lighting up the screen.
I have been playing the p99 as well and while the blocky graphics are tough to look at the game play is still very appealing. I went into p99 to recruit for my guild in Pantheon
I think the animations are very Important.
I want the timing of the animations to be correct and match what I am seeing. If there are not a ton of different types of animations that is fine, as long as the few that we have are the best quality.
I also like to have precise control, I do not like too much built in Hysteresis, that gives you a slight out of touch feel. I would rather see a Characters limbs, hair, loose clothing and such show slight continued movement after stop than have the Character take two extra steps after my stop input, that extra step or two gives that out of touch floaty feel.
While Newton and Galileo's laws of Motion and Inertia may disagree , we need it to be comfortably playable. I will agree with some others, one thing WoW did very well was the feel and control of your characters. They made the right compromises.
Thought I replied to this but must have been on FB :)
Animations are important, both from a play and presentation standpoint.
If the animations are poor then new potential players may dismiss it as low quality (even if the gameplay itself is good). If the animations are poor it will be something players will constantly bring up (IE: That jump animation is laughable!).
Best animations for me were in Age of Conan, but they also used motion capture so...
Character animations are important to me - I like to use them as visual cues on NPCs when engaging in combat - although, to be fair, that pretty much only applies to spellcasters and spellcasting. Too difficult to expect to be able to pick up on cues for instant attacks such as melee or instant casting effects. I play in first-person so my own character animations don't mean anything to me - just watching others. Which is why I use them as cues when engaged in combat.
One of the things I think other games have incorporated rather well are the models and animations for most of the characters and classes. I especially like how animations are implemented for various spellcasters and lines of spells.
Getting back to the point of EQ (I have no experience with VG) I did like the animations incorporated for kick and for piercing/backstab but that was when watching my teammates. I guess it's a bit unfair for spellcasters when using their animations as cues and to see if you can disrupt them or prepare for them. But, still, I feel animations are important. Perhaps there will be skills or abilities for melee classes that aren't instant for which animation cues can be an engaging aspect for encounters.
As an added thought, I guess my feeling is.........what I am hoping to see is a game that gets back to some of the older concepts while still taking advantage of today's graphical advances. Harkening back to the mechanics of old should not be an excuse not to put the work into making the world and mechanics visually appealing. No red circles though please! Text warnings are good enough to let folks know where to move away from....example: I'll teach you to interfere with me, Dominx!!! = Everyone get the hell away from Dominx or the spot she was just standing lol.
I would hope that the plan is to make RTF as visually stunning as possible, and this includes thought and time given to character animations.
Taking this a different direction - while character animations are certainly important, and I believe Vanguard did a good job at this - I'd like to see something else that you don't see very often in today's MMO's.
1st person hands.
I prefer playing in 1st person, unless of course I'm raiding or in a group that requires total concentration and good situational awareness. As we know, in many EQ dungeons, 3rd person view wasn't viable anyway since the dungeons were so small and sufficating - which I actually enjoyed.
What I would like to see while in 1st person are my hands. My hands swinging a sword, or casting a spell. I think that would be a nice change.
-Tralyan
I think the animations need to be bumped up as priority on my list. If the game feel static that tells me the developers didn’t really care enough to deploy those features. I think VR with the dynamic weather we are seeing in the videos would have to have animations for the environments at least. I think the VG setups were great. I enjoyed them far more than say GW2 and even Landmark with the facial recognition piece. IT all will add the immersion and the way people play the game.
It’s very important.
Ox