I'm really divided on this. Testing, and helping out in other ways needed, so that a game can improve is something I like to do and I'm sure I will be there in Pantheon from the start. But at the same time... there's nothing like that feeling of awe and excitement when you see something for the first time and not knowing what danger lies beyond the next hill. You miss that feeling when starting playing with your friends if you've already tested content prior to release in a more "secure" fashion.
Kilsin said:
Just to touch on #1, I understand what you're getting at but this isn't always a good thing, it is great to have some direction and there will be many times that the team issues specific instructions to test a specific element of the game but giving specific details for every test session removes the randomness of finding issues/exploits/bugs etc. for example, if the Devs ask everyone to just test combat on human mobs, there is no telling that it will have the same effect on undead or other races when different AI and spells/abilities come into play, so letting everyone run wild while we record that data is actually more beneficial to us for a lot of the testing. The more people reporting the same bug the more information and chance of reproducing it which leads to a solid fix, so it does help us even though it may sound like extra work to you guys :)
#2 is a bit more complicated than that and I feel your pain with VG as I was one of those testers from early Alpha through to launch, but this isn't VG, we have a smaller and more dedicated team that is relying on everyones feedback and testing to help us capture as many issues as possible before launch, we are already internally testing some aspects now, I can't even count the number of pages of bugs/suggestions that I have reported to the team and the majority of those get patched within the week. So I think you will find this testing experience will be a lot different to VG's beta 8-9 years ago by a different company ;)
Please don't let other companies bad experiences testing dampen your mindset for our testing, many of us have experienced those testing sessions too and know how we felt during them, so I wouldn't worry about seeing it happen here. We appreciate everyones feedback and support and you can expect to see a lot of Dev interaction during testing phases and of course, I will be there to relay as much information as possible too.
And for the 20/80 principle to be applicable, that 20% of the bugs cause 80% of the problems, one needs lots of "redundant" bug reports to get enough statistics for finding those 20% bugs.
Gawd said:
I cant wait to test PROTF i want to find all the exploits and bugs and shut em down.
BTW will the devs be using the dev guild to test raids when we get to that point? or will some poopsock guild be invited to do that?
Not sure yet mate, probably a mix of both to get the best feedback possible.
Kilsin said:
Game testing - some like doing it and others would rather wait until the game is released, which side are you on, and will you be helping us test Pantheon?
I enjoy testing. When the testing is focused I usually don't see too much of the game anyway. If it's more of a 'just log in and play' test, then I simply limit my exploration. I tend to make characters of each class, and sometimes race, but only go so far with them.
I do like testing, im prob not good at it though, very dis-organized so a good bug report tool that, is not taking ages to load and then requires 30 min to make a 3 line report is important imo, otherwise i usually end up not bothering with /bug, seeing it from the angle of: if they make it so difficult to report bugs are they even interested in them? :)
Can't wait to log in and stress the server load and do the bidding of the over lords in testing the game though!
Absolutely looking forward to testing. Over the years testing, I tend to focus on UI related things since there's usually a large number of players who will focus more on combat and mobs (not that I won't be testing those areas, but poking and prodding at UI stuff is where I tend to hammer at more in depth).
The team assembled to put this game together, reads like a who's who list of some of my favorite past games like Everquest and Vanguard (amongst elsewhere).
In regards to testing, I think the team's combined experiences will very valuable getting this off the ground and in the longer term keep things moving forward. I'm much less skeptical knowing it's a team of veterans that knows what it takes to get a game like this off the ground. Not to say it cannot be done by others, but I'm glad these guys are working on our game. If I had to selectively pick people, this would be my Madden team of developers from past games I really enjoyed.
Pantheon is the game I've wanted to play for a very long time (based on all information I've read that's been provided). Pantheon isn't a casual curiosity for me, rather a game I'm hoping over the years to make new friends in during our journeys.
Most recently, when Vanguard died out, I wondered if the industry would be willing to put together a comparable game to Vanguard or Everquest (depth/difficulty) or if the appetite of developers and players for such a game was a thing of the past. After coming across Pantheon, reading up about it, getting to discuss it with the community/developers, it is apparent there is such an appetite for this sort of game which is very exciting.
So yes, anything I could do to help ensure the game's short term and long term success, I'd be thrilled to offer whatever assistance possible. These games for many (myself included) are more than a game, they're a community and a break from the crazy real world.
On a side note, I worked with Daniel Krenn, our Technical Director to help put together a nice bug reporting tool for in-game, which I think you guys will like a lot and it will make the reporting process much easier for everyone :)
This will be great and will help streamline the reports. When I test I try not to burn myself out by also trying as many different classes/races as possible. And I try to look into as many things as I can.
Yea Bug Tracking and a simple to find known bug list maybe with bug reported at your current location should be avaiable so the same bug isnt reported a million times i often didn report bugs i tought of as too simple and for everyone to detect in order to avoid multible reports. But i kinda wondered at times if that bug is already known.
And something else i dont like is noone seems to listen to Ideas to make some mechanics that just wont work well better. While i understand a Game Developer cant go for each persons ideas .. they should at least consider some ideas and reply to one. Saw just too many failed Mmorpgs and Games which would have been so much better with some simple tweaks at times.
ATM i play Dungeon Defenders 2 Alpha not a Mmorpg but i can tell the Designers have absolutely no clue or no Vision or a Leader with one at all. Theyre Game gets worse instead of getting better atm. Instead of building on a solid Fundament Dungeon Defender 1 was they try to make a completely different Game and do all the mistakes they can do again. Instead of take what works and add some New Ideas and tweaks.There have been ppls that took alot of time and Balance a Previous Game yet you throw all that experience out of the Window and just try your own Followup without even knowing the old Games Mechanics much,.... bla. Maybe in 2 Years they are done. Just looking at such things makes me want to produce my own Game yet i kinda dont want to know all the mechnics and codes behind one since that could make it boring. Unless its very complex to the point of almost alive.
X
Celandor said:
OK, so I'm going to be the stick in the mud here - partially.
I'm excited to test Pantheon, having been involved in testing previous games, doing extensive bug reporting, etc... In fact I've been doing it professionally for various software projects for the past 15 years.
However, I will say that being involved in Vanguard from Alpha did pretty much ruin the game for me. After investing a lot of time and energy as a tester/player I was completely disheartened by the shape the game was in at launch. I quit a month or two after launch and I don't think I ever went back. If I had discovered Vanguard later when it was more stable, I probably would have played it until the day they turned off the lights on the server.
During Alpha, you expect major bugs such as falling through the world, mobs warping, broken quest interactions, etc... New features are still being added and our primary reason for existing in game as players at this point should be to provide feedback and help the devs find all the unexpected things that can and will go wrong. In closed Beta, typically there's a freeze on addition of major game elements and we're strictly testing what was added during various Alpha roll outs. We're still seeing big bad bugs, server wipes and all the stuff that's part of the testing ecosystem in a pre-launch MMO. Public Beta's are now mostly about stress and load testing and have essentially become the new launch of a game. Most public betas are now paid and the bulk of players are there for more of a jump start. Like a Christmas present, they are eager to unwrap it and will toss it aside quickly if it doesn't meet their expectations. NDA's are tossed aside normally by this point as the devs are looking for maximum coverage and buzz for the new game. Significant bugs or any problems in Beta show up as negative press in game reviews in countless vlogs and forum threads. The real testing by players has already been done by this point. The only real testers in Beta are the ops/admin teams who are looking to see how shards and back end systems are performing under load.
So ya, I'm really looking forward to helping make Pantheon the best game it possibly can be by public Beta, but not without some bitter sweet memories of games gone by.
I was in third phase testing for Vanguard..still was a wondrous world despite its flaws. I was still putting in bug reports and such after the game launched. Really wanted Vanguard to succeed. Loved the innovation with the diplomacy sphere..and the dual targetting system, the Psionicists, blood mages..etc. I even discovered how to get a mob I was fighting to stop pathing underground, so I could hit it. lol (just keep backing up after getting agro..and it follows you :P)
Cana
I enjoy testing games and look forward to pre-alpha testing Pantheon. It seems like a lot of people these days though sign up for alpha/beta testing just to get early access with no intention of testing. Then they go and complain everywhere that the game isn't ready. Hopefully thats not the case and we get a dedicated group to do focused testing as per the devs.
While I've never been particularly adept at finding the ways to exploit code loopholes, I'll certainly test the heck out of the play mechanics and pathing and combat logic etc... Class feedback for the fun factor will also be high on my list as well.
Mannikin said:
I enjoy testing games and look forward to pre-alpha testing Pantheon. It seems like a lot of people these days though sign up for alpha/beta testing just to get early access with no intention of testing. Then they go and complain everywhere that the game isn't ready. Hopefully thats not the case and we get a dedicated group to do focused testing as per the devs.
Yes, but I believe that's usually the dev's and/or managements fault. That didn't happen at the beginning. Lessons learned should be that you shouldn't open a game for any sort of outside testing, pre-alpha/alpha/beta/gama/zeta.. whatever you wanna call it... without following through on the implied promise that when testers are paying to test your product for you (or using their valuable time), you will fix the problems that come up. The issue you mention is from disgruntled testers saying that issue has been in every release since alpha.. or an open beta that has massive class mechanics bugs but was only for "stress testing". Maybe you can find a couple of just plain jerks, but most of the "complaints" are based on the reality of the game state.
tldr; if you open the game for outside testing of any kind, follow through with the obligation on your side to fix bugs or communicate a plan to fix bugs or not fix bugs with a reason. Just opening up a game for testing with no vision of what needs to be tested means the project is doomed for failure. Someone has to keep track of every aspect of the game and whether it has been tested, and also has it been tested in the latest version of the code. Just hoping everything is tested has been definitively proven to lead to failure in this genre repeatedly.
also, to answer the question, I really cant decide. It all depends if my wife will get in and play or not. I want everything to be new for me and her. I don't want to give her the feeling I am rushing her because I already did it in pre-lease. etc.
I personally have always loved testing because I can help put the polish on a product for market. Ive had the experience of getting burned out in some of the titles I have tested over 20 years and most of those games had pretty lackluster staying power once launched. The one game that I however did not test for was Vanguard and I really regret not being called into duty for that launch.
Kilsin said:
Game testing - some like doing it and others would rather wait until the game is released, which side are you on, and will you be helping us test Pantheon?
I would love to be a part of the testing!
