Gold farmers, sellers, botters all go together. I've seen WHOLE guilds made up of botters.
I've witnessed these same folks monopolizing page after page after page in the Auction houses, undercutting crafters trying to sell their goods, buying up loads of product..lowering the price to below what it costs to produce that product.
And then..there's the enablers, those who rely on their credit cards to buy themselves status...be it powerlevelling, raid goods, whatever. Meanwhile prices are so exhorbitant in some cases, that ordinary gamers, who don't use their credit card to buy their way up the ladder, can't afford anything with ingame currency on the Auction house.
RMT is a sign of a game economy out of control. Punish both parties...the buyers and the sellers. And to each one of us: "See something...say something" I do my best in every game over the years, to report botters. Some are pretty easy to spot, others you have to be more observant. And YES they used hacked accounts, stolen credit cards. Which is another reason not to give out your password to your account...EVER.
Cana
Tralyan said:Keiiek said:make gold spammers worth quadruple xp.
Bwahaha. I love this.
Take it further. Make gold spammers AND the people who buy from gold spammers killable by other players, and lootable. Put a serverwide announcement out there.
"TRALYAN HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF THE MOST HEINOUS OF CRIMES, AND THE WRATH OF THE GODS HAS FALLEN UPON HIS PERSON. YOU ARE CHARGED WITH HUNTING DOWN THE INFIDEL, AND WILL BE REWARDED FOR YOUR SERVICES TO THE PANTHEON."
And then /popcorn.
In Lotro..we used to kill the botters in pvp..in the Ettenmoors. Pvp characters were limited to that area originally, and I guess the botters figured that was a safe place to farm. Not so, we would make the rounds of the Ettenmoores several times a day, and decimate them...free points for us. :)
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:Gold farmers, sellers, botters all go together. I've seen WHOLE guilds made up of botters.
I've witnessed these same folks monopolizing page after page after page in the Auction houses, undercutting crafters trying to sell their goods, buying up loads of product..lowering the price to below what it costs to produce that product.
And then..there's the enablers, those who rely on their credit cards to buy themselves status...be it powerlevelling, raid goods, whatever. Meanwhile prices are so exhorbitant in some cases, that ordinary gamers, who don't use their credit card to buy their way up the ladder, can't afford anything with ingame currency on the Auction house.
RMT is a sign of a game economy out of control. Punish both parties...the buyers and the sellers. And to each one of us: "See something...say something" I do my best in every game over the years, to report botters. Some are pretty easy to spot, others you have to be more observant. And YES they used hacked accounts, stolen credit cards. Which is another reason not to give out your password to your account...EVER.
Cana
Players included in RMT are too rarelly punished, or only a temporary ban. It doesn't really help shutting the system down, as they think "well if I get catched I'll get a temporary 3 days ban, whatever I can try until I get caught", if you get permabanned the story won't be the same, and risking it will not be a valid option for a account with hours of play.
CanadinaXegony said:Gold farmers, sellers, botters all go together. I've seen WHOLE guilds made up of botters.
I've witnessed these same folks monopolizing page after page after page in the Auction houses, undercutting crafters trying to sell their goods, buying up loads of product..lowering the price to below what it costs to produce that product.
And then..there's the enablers, those who rely on their credit cards to buy themselves status...be it powerlevelling, raid goods, whatever. Meanwhile prices are so exhorbitant in some cases, that ordinary gamers, who don't use their credit card to buy their way up the ladder, can't afford anything with ingame currency on the Auction house.
RMT is a sign of a game economy out of control. Punish both parties...the buyers and the sellers. And to each one of us: "See something...say something" I do my best in every game over the years, to report botters. Some are pretty easy to spot, others you have to be more observant. And YES they used hacked accounts, stolen credit cards. Which is another reason not to give out your password to your account...EVER.
OH no you just threw me under the bus. I love to box, bot characters around. Its a fun game for me, to multitask. I never cheat, steal your money or call you out. I just like to play my own game sometimes. Many i played with know me from 1999 up until i retired in 2017. I have never caused harm in the AH or farmed for online gold sales. I also would move over if someone needed something, or i would clearly help.
Dont believe we all are the same. Many of us that like to box, bot characters around do not have the intention to harm others... Its true.
Cana
Whatever the end result is. If Characters are found to have broken the rules, and are perma-banned, I would love to see public executions of those characters in-game.
Example: At the end of every month, in every major city, Characters that were perma-banned (for whatever reason) face the guillotine in the town square. People could stand around and watch.
Bonechip said:Whatever the end result is. If Characters are found to have broken the rules, and are perma-banned, I would love to see public executions of those characters in-game.
Example: At the end of every month, in every major city, Characters that were perma-banned (for whatever reason) face the guillotine in the town square. People could stand around and watch.
Yeeessssss
Its very simple dont ban the goldsellers create a prison ingame that will hold the cheriter for however long the punishment last while in prison that cheriter can not be deleted or teleport. If the person is running multiple all cheriters are sent to prison.
Any player that buys from a goldseller goes to prison this will reduce buying noone wants a jail sentence.
Every item and skill that player possess is deleted and returns to level 1 all masterys go to 1.
Only allow the creation and deletion of x amount per day-week and cap the amount of cheriter slots we can have.
Let these goldsellers log in and see their cheriter in a empty dark prison cell for years reminding them of their criminal actions.
I would love to watch players reaction when city guards grab them and drag their cheriter down a dark hallway put in a cell and door closes.
Basicly this would mean the goldseller-bot can't do anything and force them to create new emails and rebuy the game if this is a issue ban pc ip and disable cc from paying sub people only have so many cards to pay subs with. If they continue sue
A shame statue in thronefast is also a good idea each month the top 10 most criminal players that do things not in the spirit of the games honesty and integrity names are put on a plague so that the community can avoid the player and ignore them. No games going to be fun after thousands of players refuse to have anything to do with the player. This will encourage bad behavior in a few however it will cleanse the game of toxicity and bad behavior in the long run. Until toxicity is punished by the creators and community it will thrive like we have seen in other mmos. This will create a more enjoyable friendly enviroment for the majority of the community.
The one thing that has been brought up in the past is the possibility of having all free trial accounts (to lvl 10 or whatever is decided upon) to be on the same server. After a sub is paid they would have the option to choose a regular server.
Granted, that makes the free server a haven for gold sellers...but at least the majority would all be in the same place making them easier to regulate.
It's not a perfect solution because free trial accounts would be exposed to gold sellers but I think players these days are so used to seeing gold seller spam in populated areas that it wouldn't even phase most trial account players.
There is no perfect solution. VR is going to have to make some tough decisions if they care about gold sellers and RMTs.
I know rampant gold sellers is one of the few things that will make me unsub from a game. As soon as I feel like I'm not on a level playing field with everyone else because others are buying their way to easier advancement is when I stop spending money on games.
philo said:The one thing that has been brought up in the past is the possibility of having all free trial accounts (to lvl 10 or whatever is decided upon) to be on the same server. After a sub is paid they would have the option to choose a regular server.
Granted, that makes the free server a haven for gold sellers...but at least the majority would all be in the same place making them easier to regulate.
It's not a perfect solution because free trial accounts would be exposed to gold sellers but I think players these days are so used to seeing gold seller spam in populated areas that it wouldn't even phase most trial account players.
There is no perfect solution. VR is going to have to make some tough decisions if they care about gold sellers and RMTs.
I know rampant gold sellers is one of the few things that will make me unsub from a game. As soon as I feel like I'm not on a level playing field with everyone else because others are buying their way to easier advancement is when I stop spending money on games.
I dont see Isolating the noobs and the gold seller's on an alternate server to be a very good solution.
First what the Noobs would see is "Pantheon is plagued with gold sellers" that would run most of them off.
Next it's the elder players that are better equipped to combat such things with /report and knowing how and when to do it. Noobs are still learning what the perception system is and how it works.
@Zorkon As stated, it's not a perfect solution. It was just one idea that was thrown out by the team a couple years back as a possibility. Do you have a better solution?
It has the benefit of keeping a majority of the gold sellers in the same place where they are easier regulated. If we believe that it is possible to actually regulate them that seems like a way to make it possible.
On the other hand, if we are of the mindset that gold sellers can never be regulated, we may as well split them up between all of the servers so the problem is diluted. That is another mindset. I'm not as much of a fan of this mindset because it admits defeat to the gold sellers.
In this day and age players have so much exposure to gold sellers that I'm not sure if there is any difference between a trial account player reporting them or a subscription account player reporting them.
I wonder what the % of players playing pantheon will be who have never played an online game where they were exposed to some form of gold seller? Probably close to 0%...heck these days the gold sellers are often the company who is producing the game. I think it is only us old folks who think of gold sellers as negatively as we do.
zewtastic said:Kilsin said:It is up to both the players and us as a team to control RMT in our game, we can only do so much on our end with monitoring, admin, banning etc. but if you guys don't buy it, then they don't have a market to sell too and they will not bother farming something that they can't make money from.
One side can't control it alone, but together we can wipe most if not all of it out in Pantheon. ;)
Absolutely the wrong answer.
Players are not designing and coding this MMO. If good quality hires and planning are not taken in this phase and beyond, you will have major security issues and gold farming will be the least of it.
I as a subscribing player do not expect to be paying for the burden of managing cheaters, spammers, hackers, exploiting and lastly gold farmers.
Pushing the responsibility of dealing with these issues to players is unacceptable, and additionally opens more paths for player abuse thus compounding any existing issues.
Case in point, creating tools allowing players to make reports and complaints that bring scrutiny(on possible actions) on other players is just handing a gift to all the trolls, cheaters and griefers. This underbelly of players that have zero interest in following rules, standards and procedures will simply exploit any such tools to direct grief against otherwise innocent players as well as bogging down game moderation with excessive spam.
With FTP MMO's these kinds of low life activities are what is expected. Falling under the title of "you get what you pay for".
But with an MMO where players are paying a monthly premium, being subjected to exploits, cheating, hackers, spammers and gold farming is not business as usual. And telling players they need to step up and manage it is even more improper.
Paying players with only a few precious hours to play are not going to be happy having to deal with chat spammers blowing up immersion, gold farming camp exploiters, teleporting hackers and more.
This is not the first rodeo for many at VR, so if they are not hiring, planning and designing to deal with these issues, all bets are off for any sustained critical and economical success.
I have to agree with Zewtastic here. The VR team has all the teeth and if they don't have a proactive and aggressive plan to deal with RMT and show that they have real bite then the war with gold sellers is lost. The players at best can play a minor supporting role and that is only if VR really steps up to the plate on this issue. I have a hard time believing that the VR team is niave enough to believe that a "just say no" policy on the part of the players will be effective. Especially in a gaming world, as many others have pointed out, where RMT has almost become an accepted part of game play these days.
My hope is that VR does have some very proactive and aggressive plans which they are just holdiing close to their chest, like many other apsects of this game, which is appropriate for this stage in the game's development. If not, ugh.
I don't know why he is bringing cheaters/hackers/exploiters when Kilsin is only speaking toward RMT.
Fact of the matter is he is absolutely right/honest about this. There is no way for them to stop RMT entirely as there is no proven way for it to work without seriously hampering gameplay of normal users. The best they could do (in addition to their own internal tracking) would be to have strong limitations of trial accounts and yes, having report functions for players.
Case in point, creating tools allowing players to make reports and complaints that bring scrutiny(on possible actions) on other players is just handing a gift to all the trolls, cheaters and griefers. This underbelly of players that have zero interest in following rules, standards and procedures will simply exploit any such tools to direct grief against otherwise innocent players as well as bogging down game moderation with excessive spam.
And it wouldn't be hard for them to determine those trying to abuse the system to harass someone and ban/punish the troll(s) instead.
Everyone, we have to face the fact that gold farming and RMT will always be a thing in any mmo we play. There is no real solution to completely prevent it that doesn't effect the playtime of legit players and it's pointless to scheme up ways to stop it.
It. Will. Always. Exist.
Making items bind to players just prevents the new guy from trying to make some gold for his next upgrade. Setting artificial limits on what a character can hold just prevents someone from recieving items that could be a legit gift or hand-me-down. Accusing someone farming one single thing for months on end could really be a real person farming for some goal they have...I actually had a friend who did this at a early level, spent weeks farming one item to sell. He spent almost 2 months in one location, day after day killing the same monster for drops to sell so that he wouldn't have to take long breaks in the level up process to gear up and he was accused of being an RMT.
So how do you realistly try to stop RMT without harming legit players experience?
I honestly think this is one of those things we have to live with, more effort should be placed in reducing the visual presence of RMT activity. Focus more on removing/preventing the spammers in chat, and us players as a whole have to put a serious black cloud over those who participate. There will be people who abuse it and we just have to live with it. But as long as RMT isn't in my face, well, out of sight out of mind. I am not in anyway endorsing RMT activity, but I do not want to see servere measures to conteract it effect the experience of the game for players who really want to just enjoy the game.